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(750920)

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Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 14:50:12 2011

I received this Cc from a person I know in the NY Conservative Party. It's unedited. He expresses his thoughts about the current social security situation and his thoughts for repairing it for future generations. The second part has been circulating through cyber space and I have no knowledge of it's origins or accuracy.

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Hi Johnny:

Although I like Alan Simpson, and don't recall if he was in the Congress when our Social Security funds were raided by the politicians who infested Washington, D.C. when our Social Security "lock box" was broken into, I thought you might like the below.

Jack

PS: To fix Social Security for our children and grandchildren, perhaps our Tea Party politicians should re-establish this "lock box" and DECREASE the social security rate but expand it to cover all taxpayers, including those who make millions of dollars. This would reduce taxes for middle income workers while increasing taxes on the super wealthy. Also, the tax free interest income the super rich receive from municipal bonds and notes should be made taxable and put into the Social Security "lock box" too.

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Don't Call Me Greedy

THIS SENIOR CITIZEN NAILED IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Alan Simpson, Senator from Wyoming , Co-Chair of Obama's deficit
commission, calls senior citizens the Greediest Generation as he
compared "Social Security" to a Milk Cow with 310 million teats.
August, 2010.

Here's a response in a letter from a unknown fellow in Montana ... I
think he is a little ticked off ! He also tells it like it is !

Hey Alan, let's get a few things straight...

1. As a career politician, you have been on the public dole for FIFTY YEARS.

2. I have been paying Social Security taxes for 48 YEARS (since I was 15 years old. I am now 63).

3. My Social Security payments, and those of millions of other
Americans, were safely tucked away in an interest bearing account for decades until you political pukes decided to raid the account and give OUR money to a bunch of zero ambition losers in return for votes, thus bankrupting the system and turning Social Security into a Ponzi scheme that would have made Bernie Madoff proud.

4. Recently, just like Lucy & Charlie Brown, you and your ilk pulled the proverbial football away from millions of American seniors nearing
retirement and moved the goalposts for full retirement from age 65 to
age 67. NOW, you and your shill commission is proposing to move the
goalposts YET AGAIN.

5. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying into Medicare
from Day One, and now you morons propose to change the rules of the
game. Why? Because you idiots mismanaged other parts of the economy to such an extent that you need to steal money from Medicare to pay the bills.

6. I, and millions of other Americans, have been paying income taxes our entire lives, and now you propose to increase our taxes yet again. Why? Because you incompetent bastards spent our money so profligately that you just kept on spending even after you ran out of money. Now, you come to the American taxpayers and say you need more to pay off YOUR debt.

To add insult to injury, you label us "greedy" for calling "bullshit" on
your incompetence. Well, Captain Bullshit, I have a few questions for
YOU.

1. How much money have you earned from the American taxpayers during your pathetic 50-year political career?

2. At what age did you retire from your pathetic political career, and
how much are you receiving in annual retirement benefits from the
American taxpayers?

3. How much do you pay for YOUR government provided health insurance?

4. What cuts in YOUR retirement and healthcare benefits are you
proposing in your disgusting deficit reduction proposal, or, as usual,
have you exempted yourself and your political cronies?

It is you, Captain Bullshit, and your political co-conspirators who are "greedy". It is you and they who have bankrupted America and stolen the American dream from millions of loyal, patriotic taxpayers. And for what? Votes. That's right, sir. You and yours have bankrupted America for the sole purpose of advancing your pathetic political careers.

You know it, we know it, and you know that we know it.

And you can take that to the bank, you miserable SOB

(750923)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 12 15:00:00 2011, in response to Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 14:50:12 2011.

Well, I've only been paying into social security for 42 years, not 48.

But I think both sides have a point. I deserve a reasonable payback for my money. But not at the expense of forcing young people to pay into the system outrageously, and not at the expense of going incredibly into debt to the Chinese.

The actuaries who oversee the system say that the solutions don't have to be so horrendous. I'm willing to accept a moderate cut in what has been promised to me, for the good of the country.

I don't think the system should be abolished. The best retirement system is a mix of a defined contribution plan and a defined benefit plan. That balances risk and reward properly between employee and employer. Lately employers are only providing the defined contribution portion, leaving social security as the only defined benefit plan most people have.


(750931)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 15:13:27 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 12 15:00:00 2011.

He never mentioned a cut in benefits. He was referring to a a cut in the rate we pay but raising the ceiling to include taxing earnings of those pesky millionaires who escape paying social security withholding on so much of their income.

(750991)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 16:44:20 2011, in response to Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 14:50:12 2011.

LOL! So now you're a liberal!

(750996)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by AlM on Sat Mar 12 16:49:06 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 15:13:27 2011.

Understood. But there needs to be a cut in benefits too. Just applying the 6.45% to all income instead of 108K isn't sufficient to make up the deficit.



(751005)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:02:44 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 16:44:20 2011.

No but I think we all see what you are.

(751007)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 17:04:36 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:02:44 2011.

Oooh, snap.

(751010)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:06:53 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 12 16:49:06 2011.

Not being an actuary, or an accountant, I'd not know that but I think that removing the income limit and limit on taxable sources of contributions would do much to turn the tide. I also believe that restoring what was referred to as "The Lock Box" must be mandatory if we are going to begin to tap the previously untapped sources.

(751012)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 17:08:34 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:06:53 2011.

Lock Box = Al Gore's proposal.

(751021)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:15:21 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 17:08:34 2011.

You just don't get it, do you? The lock Box was in place many years ago before it was eliminated. It should be restored. The difference between us is that I don't care who's idea it is, if it works. You being a partisan hack would oppose a cure for cancer if it came from a Republican. Grow a little.

(751023)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 17:17:30 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:15:21 2011.

"You being a partisan hack would oppose a cure for cancer if it came from a Republican."

Exactly how you and other righties react to Obama's ideas on a daily basis.

(751024)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by RockParkMan on Sat Mar 12 17:18:04 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:15:21 2011.

The "Lock Box" was raided for the Nazi Bush's tax cuts. Retroactively repeal those tax cuts with interest for the unproductive Rich and restore the Lock Box.

(751030)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:23:50 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 17:17:30 2011.

If I agreed with obamacare, I would have supported it regardless of partisan politics. I do not agree with obamacare because it's unworkable. I do not agree with obama's stance on GITMO and civilian trials for detainees - not because of partisan politics but because he's wrong - which, by the way he is now acknowledging by his actions.

So by your comments, am I to conclude that you disagree with Jack's assessment of a fix for social security not because it's wrong but because the idea comes from the lips of a conservative? Sure seems that way to me.

(751033)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:24:44 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by RockParkMan on Sat Mar 12 17:18:04 2011.

It was not raided by BUSH, Willy, or is that Marty?

(751055)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 12 18:04:35 2011, in response to Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 14:50:12 2011.

I like the idea, as long as we don't raid the funds as we have in past. That can be legislated tho, I'd think.

your pal,
Fred

(751058)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by SMAZ on Sat Mar 12 18:14:25 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by AlM on Sat Mar 12 16:49:06 2011.

Just applying the 6.45% to all income instead of 108K isn't sufficient to make up the deficit.

Actually it is. Not only that but it doesn't even have to be done all at once.

You can also tack half (3.1%) of the individual rate on capital gains too and the whole individual rate (6.2%) on estate taxes and on otherwise tax-free muni bond gains.

When the tax cuts for the rich are set to expire next year, I would make the current income tax rates permanent but tack on FICA at half the rate for currently exempt incomes (while dropping the 28% bracket to 25%). This is essentially a tax cut.

I would establish the entire 6.2% employer rate starting at $400,000 and above but freezing it there so that the 0% donut hole between $108,000-400,000 would gradually close with time.
Once this is no longer sufficient to keep the trust fund from borrowing from general revenues, that half-rate on the employee side would gradually increase on a pay-as-you-go basis.

This would put SS on sound ground for eternity without further sinking the general revenue budget.
At that point, that budget would have to be dealt with in order to close its long-term structural deficits.



(751082)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 19:04:02 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 17:23:50 2011.

I don't disagree in general. I was commenting on the hypocrisy of the right.

(751095)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 20:21:28 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by italianstallion on Sat Mar 12 19:04:02 2011.

There is no hypocrisy on the right. What you are seeing are your own misconceptions of what conservatism is about. More the pity for you.

(751097)

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Re: Conservative's View of Social Security

Posted by Train Dude on Sat Mar 12 20:23:48 2011, in response to Re: Conservative's View of Social Security, posted by Fred G on Sat Mar 12 18:04:35 2011.

I think that was the idea


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