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| Re: The Lower 46 (656354) | |
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| (656780) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 20:11:11 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 18:52:21 2010. Humanity has not been liberated because there are states that continue to be ruled by the equivalent of kings and false prophets. At least America is free and the nations that have taken the principles of America to heart are also free.Judaism/Christianity are not related enough to considered a single "moral culture." And Christianity had been responsible for so many atrocities by that point, that it doesn't make sense to point to it and say that something was considered wrong. If I lived my life according to Christian practices through the centuries, I would pillage, plunder, kill and enslave foreign natives and burn heretics at the stake. Of course, what I do blame enlightenment philosophers for is not considering Africans and American aborigines as having abilities equal to those of whites. |
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| (656782) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 20:12:01 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 18:57:47 2010. Yes, it would make sense but it's been part of the US that whole time.As KGT pointed out, Point Roberts is much more annoying. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 20:15:41 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 20:12:01 2010. True, oh well. |
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| (656791) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:20:05 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Aug 29 17:05:14 2010. Didn't exist at the time ... |
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| (656800) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:30:07 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 18:11:13 2010. And thanks to republican revisionism, and the Texas State Board of Education, Thomas Jefferson and all he did, NEVER HAPPENED. Wiped completely clean from the school textbooks at their demand, along with the replacement of the word "slavery" with "Atlantic Triangle Trade." So apparently, problem solved. :(side note: after doing all this, Texas decided that they couldn't afford to buy the textbooks after all after they'd been printed. |
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| (656804) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:33:49 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 19:36:04 2010. There's a good map of counties by percentage of LDSers from this awesome site. |
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| (656806) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 20:38:12 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:33:49 2010. Cool. Mormons are significant where I said, but not the majority. A much smaller state than I imagined. |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:43:52 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 18:57:47 2010. All of Alaska has to go through Canada to get to the mainland too. Can't we just give it back to Russia? :) |
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| (656812) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:45:33 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 19:29:45 2010. Heh. That serves us well ... but I'd rather have fresh croissants in the morning truth be told. :) |
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| (656813) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 20:48:08 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:43:52 2010. But that's an entire state. That tiny portion in 'sota is separated by water. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:49:26 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 19:41:52 2010. Being city-focussed the only change that comes to mind would be to have Milwaukee and Chicago in the same state. Milwaukee is almost but not quite part of Chicagoland.But it is a significant city in its own right with its own enormous hinterland. So it's a difficult one. And it's a similar separation downtown-to-downtown to New York to Philadelphia (although drawing that line is strangely easier than drawing one between New York and Boston, which is actually quite weird). |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:52:35 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:43:52 2010. Maybe swap it for southern Ontario. It makes much more sense not to have a bit of Canada between Buffalo and Detroit. |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:57:38 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:20:05 2010. Yes, and Michigan just means "big lake" in one of the Indian languages from somewhere vaguely over there (mainly in Canada in fact).The real geographical travesty is naming the state of Wyoming after the area around Scranton, Pennsylvania. Some tedious poem seems to be to blame, but I suppose as nobody lives there, nobody cares. |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 21:01:11 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 20:38:12 2010. Yes, although to be fair, that map only records religious adherents. There's a bit of a halo-effect of religious non-adherents going on, so culturally your larger borders may actually be more valid. |
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| (656827) | |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 21:03:25 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:57:38 2010. Indeed ... it was the Pontiac. As to Wyoming, it's owned by the giant Salt Lick anyway, so they might as well have called it "Romney." :) |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 21:04:21 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 20:45:33 2010. Okay, Montréal can have you! Gens de pays... |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 21:05:07 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:52:35 2010. If you've ever been to either of those two burgs, I can see why they wouldn't want to see each other. :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 21:05:55 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 20:48:08 2010. Wonder how much Putin would give us for it just the same? :) |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Aug 29 21:07:59 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 20:48:08 2010. I wonder how that affects state workers, like State Police & the State Highay Dept.Do the state DOT trucks have to trudge through Canada to plow state roads in that section? Jimmymc25 |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 21:09:17 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:57:38 2010. Some tedious poemHere it is. It's amazing that enough people ever had enough patience to read it for it to become popular enough for it to be misused as the name of a territory/state. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 21:09:38 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 21:04:21 2010. Merci! :) |
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| (656843) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 21:22:09 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:52:35 2010. Given the contrast between Southern Ontario and the US cities on either end of it, I think it should be the other way around. |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Sun Aug 29 21:22:27 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Aug 29 21:07:59 2010. Interesting question. |
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| (656845) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 21:24:25 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by jimmymc25 on Sun Aug 29 21:07:59 2010. I would think they keep separate trucks. When they get new ones I'm sure they go through Canada.The Alaska Highway was built by the US Army, despite being mostly in Canada. |
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| (656846) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 21:26:07 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:57:38 2010. And then there's Idaho, which was completely made up. |
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| (656855) | |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 22:25:20 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 21:01:11 2010. Then that explains why those areas feel Mormon to me. |
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| (656856) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 22:38:26 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 20:11:11 2010. I look at it on a more personal and less dispassionate level and I cannot possibly be as understanding as you. I actually found your responses in this thread so insulting that I had to calm down before replying. It's impossible for me to consider Jefferson as the father of worldwide liberation or whatever you think that he might be when he considered the proper place for people like me was as personal property with as far as I can tell no rights whatsoever. |
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| (656859) | |
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Posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 22:48:24 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:57:38 2010. as nobody lives there, nobody caresIt's crazy how desolate most of the state is. Much of the western US is like that but Wyoming is among the worst. I can only imagine that much of Canada is similar. And to give everyone an idea of how desolate it is, Wyoming has not many more people than live in the city of Long Beach, California which is not even considered to be a major city. It is 50% bigger than England with 1/100th the population. |
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| (656871) | |
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Posted by Scrabbleship on Sun Aug 29 23:07:17 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Aug 29 21:22:09 2010. Joining Canada would only benefit Western New York and Michigan. |
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| (656879) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:22:37 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 18:52:21 2010. I can understand being a product of your time, but he was doing things that were understood to be wrong in his moral culture (Judaism/Christianity) for thousands of years.The Christian and other superstitious practices of the time is what Jefferson and the other Founders got us to make a clean break from. |
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| (656881) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:26:06 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Aug 29 21:05:55 2010. Wonder how much Putin would give us for it just the same? :)To relieve us of a Mooch State? WE'd have to pay THEM. |
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| (656883) | |
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Posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Aug 30 00:28:15 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:26:06 2010. Would the environmentalists still protest if Russia should decide to drill in Alaska? |
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| (656884) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 00:29:16 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Grand Concourse on Mon Aug 30 00:28:15 2010. Heh. Alaska is just about tapped out now. That's the REASON they're a mooch state. Even though oil revenue has died off, every damned resident still expects (and GETS!) their welfare queen check from the state. Alaska is the state that pays *YOU*. :( |
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| (656885) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 30 00:33:08 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:22:37 2010. Silly superstitions like not killing, stealing or committing adultery? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 00:36:25 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:26:06 2010. Hmmmm ... what if we agree to exile Palin to Long Island? :) |
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| (656889) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 30 00:42:09 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 30 00:33:08 2010. You mean the "superstitions" that Christianity had failed to adopt? |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 00:43:29 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Aug 29 20:33:49 2010. That is an awesome site indeed. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 30 00:51:52 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 22:38:26 2010. I considered your initial response to be insulting as well. |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 30 01:14:53 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 00:36:25 2010. That would only work if Governor Dave was gonna be around for a few more years....his sense of humoer ...ya know.Jimmymc25 |
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| (656899) | |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 30 01:25:47 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 30 00:51:52 2010. Then we have a problem. |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 01:26:26 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 00:29:16 2010. Alaska = Hugo Chavez |
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Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:31:09 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 30 01:14:53 2010. I could swear that I heard several yelling out "Oh yeah!" when I posted that from down in that direction. :)
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:33:08 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 01:26:26 2010. Yeah, but it was republican commies up there "redistributing the wealth." It's perfectly OK when the republicans do it. But with Palin gone rogue, and Stevens dead, they may have to work for a living instead of growing dope and collecting a check for living there. This is gonna be interesting ... |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 30 01:34:27 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:31:09 2010. Yeah...but down in that direction....they got's no sense of humour and think "best thing scince sliced bread"Jimmymc25 |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 01:35:32 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:31:09 2010. YAY!!
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:46:21 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by jimmymc25 on Mon Aug 30 01:34:27 2010. Smells like a "win-win" to me. :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon Aug 30 01:48:07 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by SMAZ on Mon Aug 30 01:35:32 2010. Who needs TEA? That's high falutin' stuff! :)
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| (656943) | |
Re: The Lower 46 |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Aug 30 12:05:41 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Sun Aug 29 22:38:26 2010. It's impossible for me to consider Jefferson as the father of worldwide liberation or whatever you think that he might be when he considered the proper place for people like me was as personal property with as far as I can tell no rights whatsoever.He really was far from alone. He was behaving just as you would expect any Virginian plantation-owner of his time to behave. And it's a bit of a red herring to bring up Christianity: an awful lot of churches used to read certain Bible verses as endorsing slavery. Here, for instance, is a Presbyterian sermon from 1861 that is very pro-slavery. And in general, the further back you go, the larger the proportion of Christians you will find supporting slavery. It was only gradually that the anti-slavery movement among Christians moved from fringe groups to domination of most of the churches in the northern states. If you want some of the verses that were read that way: LEVITICUS 25 44. As for the male and female slaves whom you may have, it is from the nations around you that you may acquire male and female slaves. 45. You may also acquire them from among the aliens residing with you, and from their families that are with you, who have been born in your land; and they may be your property. 46. You may keep them as a possession for your children after you, for them to inherit as property. These you may treat as slaves, but as for your fellow Israelites, no one shall rule over the other with harshness EXODUS 21 20. When a slaveowner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. 21. But if the slave survives a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner's property. LUKE 12 45. But if that slave says to himself, 'My master is delayed in coming,' and if he begins to beat the other slaves, men and women, and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46. the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour that he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and put him with the unfaithful. 47. That slave who knew what his master wanted, but did not prepare himself or do what was wanted, will receive a severe beating. 1 TIMOTHY 6 1. Let all who are under the yoke of slavery regard their masters as worthy of all honor, so that the name of God and the teaching may not be blasphemed. 2. Those who have believing masters must not be disrespectful to them on the ground that they are members of the church; rather they must serve them all the more, since those who benefit by their service are believers and beloved. Teach and urge these duties. |
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Posted by Easy on Mon Aug 30 12:45:06 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Mon Aug 30 12:05:41 2010. Yes, but I didn't mean that owning slaves violated the bible. I meant the fact that he both committed adultery and enslaved his own children. Plus the way that slavery was instituted in the US led to millions of deaths in the middle passage and was essentially genocide. He participated in that. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 30 14:50:32 2010, in response to Re: The Lower 46, posted by Easy on Mon Aug 30 12:45:06 2010. he has waged cruel war against human nature itself, violating it's most sacred rights of life & liberty in the persons of a distant people who never offended him, captivating & carrying them to slavery in another hemisphere, or to incur miserable death in their transportations thither. this piratical warfare, the opprobrium of infidel powers, is the warfare of the Christian king of Great Britain. determined to keep open a market where MEN should be bought & sold, he has prostituted his negative for suppressing every legislative attempt to prohibit or to restrain this excrable commerce and that this assemblage of horrors might want no fact of distiguished die, he is now exciting those very people to rise in arms against us, and to purchase that liberty of which he has deprived them, by murdering the people upon whom he also obtruded them; thus paying off former crimes which he urges them to commit against the lives of another. His principles are sound and they are great, the problem is that he lived up to them less as he became older. Isn't that true of many? I commend George Washington for freeing his slaves in his will. Too bad others didn't follow his lead. |
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