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Ukranian election - message for America? :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 04:09:41 2009 In Ukraine, '04 Euphoria Has Turned to DespairBy ELLEN BARRY LVIV, Ukraine — It is not immediately clear why Vasily V. Humenyuk should be a candidate for president of Ukraine. A former customs official from the western city of Ivano-Frankivsk, he subscribes to no particular ideology, has the flimsiest of platforms and does not plan to tour the country before the vote, reasoning that “these trips cost a great deal and the people are sick of them.” In fact, he could have vanished into this winter’s overpopulated presidential race had he not, on Oct. 2, legally changed his last name to “Protyvsikh,” Ukrainian for “Against Everyone.” Though few see Mr. Protyvsikh as a serious candidate, he reflects the sour mood that has swelled in the electorate — and one that could swing a pivotal presidential election in January. For years, the vote in Ukraine has been almost evenly divided between the industrial Russian-speaking east of the country, whose voters generally favor closer ties with Moscow, and westerners intent on pursuing a European path. The current field of 18 candidates is almost certain to narrow for a closely fought second round of voting between these two constituencies, in the form of former Prime Minister Viktor F. Yanukovich, from the east, and the current prime minister, Yulia V. Tymoshenko. But while Mr. Yanukovich’s voters have the incentive of reclaiming Kiev, deep disillusionment has settled in the west, home of the Orange Revolution. It is not yet clear whether that feeling runs so deep that voters will stay home, or — as Mr. Protyvsikh clearly hopes — go out of their way to cast a protest vote. “Everyone’s disappointed in politicians,” said Vladimir Zuyenko, 44, a security guard who said he had gone three months without pay. “They made this revolution, but they didn’t solve anything. We were poor then, and we’re still poor. The only reason to vote is that if we don’t, someone else will vote for us.” Five years ago, euphoria surged through this city, the first in Ukraine to declare Viktor A. Yushchenko president, on the eve of the Orange Revolution. So many people piled onto buses headed for Kiev to support the pro-Western coalition that streets were left half-empty, and those who stayed wore bits of orange in solidarity. Viktoria Gnip, 35, said she was so inspired that she vowed on the spot to name her unborn baby Yulia or Viktor, after the two heroes of the day. Even recalling that happiness seems painful in Lviv (pronounced luh-VEEV) these days. Voters complain about the bitter public infighting between Mr. Yushchenko and Ms. Tymoshenko, about cronyism in local appointments, about an underfinanced health care system and about an economy so miserable that doctors and teachers leave for menial jobs in western Europe. “People had hope then,” Darya Lobachevskaya, 63, said. “It lasted for a year, maybe two years. But then, wherever it came from, it went back there.” As this mood has deepened, the proportion of Ukrainians who tell pollsters they will vote for “none of the above” — one option on the ballot — has been edging up, from 4 percent in 2004 to around 8 percent now, said Oleksiy Antypovych, of the polling organization Rating, who works out of Kiev and Lviv. By the time voters go to the polls, that percentage drops by one-half, so it has never proved decisive in an election, he said. But the “none of the above” votes are much higher when respondents are asked about the second round of this winter’s election, with 18 percent answering that they would not vote for either Mr. Yanukovich or Ms. Tymoshenko. Even if half of that group ends up staying home or making a choice between the candidates, up to 10 percent of Ukrainians may vote for “none of the above,” Mr. Antypovych said. “That would set a precedent,” he said. The protest vote, in this case, could be decisive. Current data shows that 40 percent of voters would back Mr. Yanukovich in a second round, and 30 percent would back Ms. Tymoshenko, Mr. Antypovych said. Though Ms. Tymoshenko is likely to pick up many Orange votes from four first-round candidates with similar platforms — among them Mr. Yushchenko — it is not yet clear if the old coalition will rally around her when she most needs it. Or what will happen if the results are disputed. “One thing I can say with certainty: There will be no repetition of that revolution,” Mr. Antypovych said. “People will no longer go out into the streets for a politician. They simply will not go out. Based on our surveys, most voters expect there to be mass falsification. They are already accustomed to the idea.” It was against this backdrop that Mr. Protyvsikh, 63, began his quixotic campaign. In his handful of public appearances, he has stuck closely to his simple slogan, explaining that he does not subscribe to any particular ideology (“Elect me, and then I’ll explain everything,” he added, reassuringly). Amid speculation that he was injected into the race to sabotage another candidate, he said his financing came from “my friends, who are scattered all over the world, rich ones, my relatives, my fellow villagers.” Mostly, he answers questions about his last name. “I made this decision six months ago, because I had reached the end of my patience,” he said in a telephone interview. “I will stand in the breach. I am brave, I am independent. I changed my name to express the will of all the people — many, many in Ukraine — who are against everyone.” Andrei Mikitin, a journalist from Mr. Protyvsikh’s home town of Ivano-Frankivsk, said the “Against Everyone” campaign has provoked mostly chuckles at home. When push comes to shove, he said, however disappointed western Ukrainians are in the Orange leadership, they will be roused by the desire to vote against Mr. Yanukovich, if only because Moscow backs him. “You have to understand people here,” said Mr. Mikitin, editor in chief of the newspaper Western Ukraine. “People don’t need ‘Against Everyone.’ They need an ‘Against Russia.’ Or an ‘Against Putin.’ That’s what I would have advised him, if he had asked me.” --- Might they be willing to vote for a Selkook? Heh. |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 07:21:44 2009, in response to Ukranian election - message for America? :), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 04:09:41 2009. Of course there's a message for America. It's to not trust the EU. |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 07:32:54 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 07:21:44 2009. partisan post.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 07:38:50 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 07:32:54 2009. How is something about a Ukranian election, and the EU "partisan"?That unless you feel as a liberal that you align yourself with the EU.... |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 08:03:56 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 07:32:54 2009. Heh. Which party are you referring to? |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 10:00:19 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Nov 19 07:38:50 2009. You must be new here; some of us joke around :Dyour pal, Fred |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Nov 19 10:04:30 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 08:03:56 2009. The party of the first part, of course.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? :) |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 19 13:18:08 2009, in response to Ukranian election - message for America? :), posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 04:09:41 2009. I don't see the reason for a "none of the above" vote, it just causes chaos. |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 17:16:54 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 07:21:44 2009. Good answer! Good answer! :)
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? :) |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 17:21:11 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America? :), posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Nov 19 13:18:08 2009. If such an election law existed though, if "none of the above" won, then the parties would all have to go back and try again with DIFFERENT cabdidates. Given all the grousing about his last election, imagine the benefits! Heh. |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 19:04:01 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 17:16:54 2009. Would you rather hear the answer that says it's "natural for Russia to have an empire", instead . . . ? |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:24:20 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 19:04:01 2009. CNN? Tsk-tsk ... well ... when the Russian empire folded last time, we could have chosen to at least put up the appearance of standing down ourselves. Instead, under Wolfowitz and Cheney, we told ourselves and the world that we had won as "the lone uberpower." Obviously, that didn't go ver very well outside the GOP ...Can't say I blame the rest of the world for deciding that maybe a "balance of power" which is what Russia sorta served to do for so long wasn't such a bad idea after all ... :( |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 19:55:04 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 19:24:20 2009. Man . . . what's your name at der Spiegel? Inquiring minds want to know. They have a history of putting out hot air like that. |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:09:23 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 19:55:04 2009. My byline is Krankenschwester-Schaltklinke. Look it up. You can also read me in Stern. :) |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 20:15:43 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:09:23 2009. OK, thanks for confirming that you're not Christian Schwgerl at least . . . |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:17:10 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 20:15:43 2009. Medication time!
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 20:19:21 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:17:10 2009. Don't overdose . . . |
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:51:57 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 20:19:21 2009. Heh. You've forgotten already that I'm playing the part of Krankenschwester-Schaltklinke? Do you need your line read? :)
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Re: Ukranian election - message for America? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Nov 19 20:58:29 2009, in response to Re: Ukranian election - message for America?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Nov 19 20:51:57 2009. I didn't deny it, did I? |
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