Has twilight come to the Sun Belt? (455862) | |
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Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt? |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Sat May 30 17:00:57 2009, in response to Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Dan on Sat May 30 16:49:23 2009. "Sunbelt" is simply a geographical euphinisum. As places like Nevada/Arizona/Texas/Florida age, they will increasingly face the same issues. CA is probably hopeless thou, I agree. NY could be turned around if Guliani runs for governer. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat May 30 18:37:28 2009, in response to Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Dan on Sat May 30 16:49:23 2009. "The sunbelt will rise again. Florida pratically invented the boom and bust real etstate cycle and it's still there. Same for Texas and oil booms and busts. Meanwhile NY, NJ and CA keep raising taxes on the productive classes."Don't even bother reading the AP. Your opinion is right. I travel the state, and I look at all the fancy hotels and the towns and take photos. All of the buildings were built and towns founded in the roaring 20's. The real estate appreciation was said to last forever. It busted in 29. I go downtown and the beaches, and i look at all the new condo towers and infill. The people who bought those were told the prices would go up forever. It busted in '09. Would you believe the land values were even the same both times? History repeats, you keep raising your taxes a few thousand dollars a year, and while our state's getting stupid, people from Europe to New York come to the South. Factories move to the south. Anybody who says the sunbelt is done, eitehr doesn't mind paying high taxes, have no concept of money and how many flee down here. Because you stop coming, property values will still drop, and the only people fleeing more than northerners are BRITS, and I like the brits. Or they're from 1866 and were wrong then. Sorry. The article isn't actually too bad. It's just too many investors. More people bought houses and condos than people who actually lived in them. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat May 30 18:39:24 2009, in response to Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Dan on Sat May 30 16:49:23 2009. The Sun Belt experiences twilight every day. It's not on the Arctic Circle, after all . . . |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat May 30 18:56:09 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by shiznit1987 on Sat May 30 17:00:57 2009. Giuliani though has too many issues of dishonesty to win. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:01:21 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat May 30 18:37:28 2009. Florida is a shithole. It's too f'in hot and your primary industry is estate sales from all of the people that move there to die. You attract a bunch of rich people that buy big houses so that they can move there to escape taxes, yet live half the year and spend most of their money in places like LA and NYC leaving you with nothing for your trouble. It only works when real estate is cheap because you have no jobs that pay money and if you did you wouldn't have anybody to fill them because your schools and universities are substandard. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 19:16:18 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:01:21 2009. Tourism is the primary industry. Not that many people die down here. Husbands usually die first, and the women go right back to NY, Boston, or Canada. So the wives die up north.The people who move down here are not that rich. Just middle class who didn't shit and piss their money away. Yes, it's too hot, but not a shithole. We have the nicest beaches in Pinellas, and Sarasota counties, while animal savage beasts destroy Rockaway. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:56:35 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 19:16:18 2009. It's unlivable IMO. The beaches are nice, but I'm not a beach person so that doesn't mean anything to me. When the real estate market recovers you're getting the hell out of there, right? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 20:03:15 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:56:35 2009. I'm a hardcore New Yorker though. I'm so used to the lifestyle up north. Wake up, take a walk in Flushing Meadows Park, or walk to the gym. I miss the NY lifestyle.I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Changes week to week. I've been looking into opening a Pizza Patron down here. Someone just signed to open 12 in Miami, and I don't want to miss out. There's a largely Mexican shopping center right by my house, with a store available. The key to a franchise is getting in on the ground floor. I will have to sell this house, even if I stay in Florida. It's too big for me. |
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Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt? |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 20:09:56 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 20:03:15 2009. They seem like a good franchise from what you've said although the franchise restaurant business is for the most part buying yourself a job. You don't usually get rich off it, but you can make a decent living. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 20:23:20 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 20:09:56 2009. You are so right. It's really rough. But in the long run, it's better than letting money sit in a bank. Especially these days. Pizza Patron keeps growing, and is affordable. Costs about $100,000 down, total $190,000 to open one.Yes, it's buying yourself a job. Although many Dunkin Donuts owners have three to six locations and just bounce around from each store all day. Not sure about the average Patron owner, but the owner of Jacksonville is never there. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 20:31:20 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 20:23:20 2009. If I were you I would invest my money and go get a nice, easy job like train operator where you can just kick it all day. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 21:58:31 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 20:31:20 2009. Problem is, "where" to invest?Train Operator is tougher than you might think. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:05:11 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 21:58:31 2009. Invest in stocks and real estate. Everyone says to buy low and sell high, but they do the opposite when investing. People tend to buy more stocks and real estate during booms instead of when prices are low like they are now.But in the short term, maybe nothing. No one is predicting a major uptick anytime soon so you can take your time. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:21:05 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:01:21 2009. I wouldn't call Florida a "shithole" at all. There are plenty of beautiful places in Florida. I don't know if I would want to live there, but it's far from a "shithole". There's a reason so many people come there to visit or live. The weather is great (aside from perhaps July and August, but the weather sucks in NY in January and February, so almost everywhere has a couple crappy months - Except for Southern California, lol), there are great beaches, etc. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:22:04 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:56:35 2009. Unlivable? Why? |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:28:11 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:21:05 2009. The reason that people live there is cheap housing. And it's too hot there in every month except Nov-Feb. Even when it's only 80F it feels like 100 because of the humidity. I know that you can get use to it, but people can get used to anything. That doesn't make it desirable. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:29:00 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:28:11 2009. Well, Tampa has a better climate than you describe. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:31:03 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:29:00 2009. Actually, I'd rather be in Tampa when it's 91, compared to Manhattan or Queens. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:37:11 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:05:11 2009. I know someone who bought stock(I think BofA) and made a nice chunk of money. But I don't know shit about stocks so I won't bother. Plus, Obama is going to taxes on stock winnings.Most don't think the Florida market is going to totally recover. I know people who bought a home for $250,000 in 2004, and it's now worth about $200,000. Was worth $300,000. My neighbor is selling a 3,000 sq.ft home for $170,000. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:38:04 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:28:11 2009. I don't agree..... Florida has a lot more to offer than many other "hot" states. People don't just move there "for the cheap housing". There are plenty states with "cheap housing"....far inferior states. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:41:31 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:38:04 2009. Yup. And the humidity here is not as bad as August in NY. |
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Posted by Easy on Sat May 30 22:57:37 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:38:04 2009. I guess that most people would agree with you, but that's not how I see it. Florida is in my bottom 10 as far as places that I'd want to live. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 30 23:01:31 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 22:37:11 2009. Obama is going to taxes on stock winnings.They have those already. They're called capital gains taxes, it's a form of income tax. Anyway, I'd rather they had more capital gains taxes and fewer corporate income taxes. Quite the radical left view isn't it? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 23:06:15 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat May 30 23:01:31 2009. I know. And he's raising it. That's one reason why I won't put more money in the stock market.How much are you going to invest in the market when Obama raises the gains tax? Raising the tax won't stimulate more investment in the market. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 00:43:48 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 23:06:15 2009. That's a stupid question. Still, I am opposed to a hike in the capital gains tax unless they also lower the tax on corporate profits (which they of course won't). |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 00:46:51 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 00:43:48 2009. You never answer a question. Just respond with a wisecrack or another question. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 00:56:34 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 00:46:51 2009. Of course I answer questions. Just not stupid ones. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:00:23 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 00:56:34 2009. There was nothing stupid about it. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 01:15:13 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:00:23 2009. It was a stupid question. What do my investment activities have to do with this discussion? Am I such a large investor that my activities have a profound effect on the economy? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:25:09 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 01:15:13 2009. Well. At least you'll finish your argument with two stupid questions. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 01:30:10 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:25:09 2009. Those are rhetorical questions. Yours wasn't. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:39:59 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 01:30:10 2009. You don't have to be a big investor, or have a "profound impact" on the economy, to have an opinion(or concerns) about raises in the gains tax. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun May 31 01:59:35 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 23:06:15 2009. The capital gains tax is going to revert to the pre-2001 levels only for the highest income people. They will stay the same for everyone else. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun May 31 02:18:38 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sat May 30 19:01:21 2009. I sort of agree. While Florida has some nice places. I wouldn't want to live there due to the climate. It's a great place to visit though. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 02:40:25 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sun May 31 02:18:38 2009. While the sun is hot, the humidity is not as bad as people think.I'd rather spend August in Tampa. New York gets brutal heatwaves. I don't think Tampa has had a 100 degree temp yet. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:38:06 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 20:03:15 2009. There's more pizza places in parts of this state than I know what to do with. And these guys are straight out of Brooklyn, and some other ones.Everytime NY raises their taxes a thousand dollars, my eating gets better. While it's hot, and i'm not a beach person myself, I love it. So many offices and companies closed their doors up north and moved their HQ down here. They move them to the worst locations, but they still move them. We have a lot here. I hear Texas is getting ruined now. So many Californian Refugee's escaping and going there. Not just Nevada and Utah now. I miss the philly lifestyle, but unless they put all the people who took over onto buses or boats, that lifestyle is gone anyway. I'm a refugee, and I enjoy my relocation. And I thought the Sunbelt stretches from NC to AZ. Be nice if the upper-midwesterners stopped coming make room for the Europeans. White people sure love to destroy their nice cities and societies and then flee don't they? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:40:34 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat May 30 22:38:04 2009. Other states have FAR cheaper housing than FL.If you mean the price of a house, there's the ghettos of OH and MI. I can't belive the price of a house there. But they're all antiques in horrible area's. But there's closer states that are cheaper. It's not the sale price, but taxes and insurance and other costs. Unless Rubio gets into a higher office. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:42:34 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 02:40:25 2009. It's impossible for Tampa Bay to hit 100 degrees real temperature.Ignoring a seabreeze, the Dew Point is so high, that the moist air forbids it from reaching 100 degrees. You know what's hot? Central FL like Orlando. I always feel an OBSCENE difference when I get there in the summer. And the temps are always a lot higher too. Mid to upper 90's. I'll take the moist heat that feels like you're soaked than the slightly drier oven heat. |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:50:06 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sat May 30 23:06:15 2009. Money is global.I've seen markets crash because they started talking about making or raising a tax on something 10 years down the road. IMO, the US has the worst taxing system when it comes to investments. I perfer not to even invest in it NOW! The tax rates really do matter. that's why they all went to London and Dubai. While it sounds funny that someone would go to London for cheaper taxes, they give preferential treatment to foreigners. That's why the arabs are buying all the houses. People forget that EVERYONE is invested. We all "have skin in the game". 401k. pensions. employee stock purchase plans. And they get taxed. Especially if they decide to tax your 401k's yearly. Cuz you know, not being taxed is like stealing! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun May 31 15:18:15 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 01:39:59 2009. And I've made my opinion known. You've chosen to ignore it and instead ask bullshit questions because it doesn't fit your pre-conceived notions. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 16:37:33 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:42:34 2009. That's why I can't understand why so many people want to live in Orlando. Makes no sense.Sure, Tampa/St. Pete can be humid at times, but not like NYC in August. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 16:40:14 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by SMAZ on Sun May 31 01:59:35 2009. Ok. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:15:24 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 02:40:25 2009. The high temperature is nearly irrelevant. San Francisco has hit 111F, yet with it's average 12 days over 80F per year and 69F average high in August, no one would say that it's hotter than Tampa. SF weather is nearly perfect IMO, although a few more hot days would be acceptable.New York can be hot and miserable, but Tampa is much hotter on average. Plus now that you're acclimated to hell on earth, NYC won't seem nearly as hot when you visit. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 18:20:21 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:15:24 2009. Tampa is not hell on earth. You're thinking of Houston.When I'm in NY in August, I feel less used to the heat, b/c it feels worse than being in Tampa. In NY, you have all those cars, street gratings, constant contruction, window A/C's etc.......... That's why I like to be in Tampa in August, instead of NYC. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:24:25 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 18:20:21 2009. I haven't been to Houston, but I have heard that it's bad. Texas is another state that I don't really care for. |
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Posted by shiznit1987 on Sun May 31 18:24:29 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun May 31 14:38:06 2009. Florida is only a couple decades away from turning into a giant Los Angeles. Yeah, the taxes may stay (somewhat) low, but the crime and decay will follow. Ever seen parts of Miami? OMG!As for the "fleeing" comment, eventually, there will be nowhere to "flee" to. Then what? |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:27:09 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by shiznit1987 on Sun May 31 18:24:29 2009. Many more smart and creative people would need to move to Florida before it became even a small Los Angeles. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 18:28:34 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:27:09 2009. Yeah. Because people from California really know how to run a state. |
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Posted by Easy on Sun May 31 18:34:16 2009, in response to Re: Has twilight come to the Sun Belt?, posted by LuchAAA on Sun May 31 18:28:34 2009. Yes they do, but California doesn't control the border. So much of our tax money goes to people that aren't citizens or even here legally. Any other state would be in much worse shape if they had to deal with the same issues. |
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