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| The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion (390235) | |
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| (390235) | |
The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion |
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Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008 An independent economist testified before the Senate today to give an appraisal that is slightly different from what was provided by the Big 3.Read about it in this article. http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/cbb080d2-c22a-11dd-a350-000077b07658.html US auto bail-out gathers speed By Daniel Dombey in Washington and Bernard Simon in Toronto Published: December 4 2008 17:42 | Last updated: December 4 2008 18:59 Members of the US Congress on Thursday gave the Big Three US carmakers’ request for billions of dollars in federal aid a far warmer welcome than just two weeks ago in an indication that a bail-out of Detroit may be gaining political momentum. The response to presentations by the chief executives of General Motors, Ford Motor and Chrysler in a hearing on Capitol Hill came despite a warning that the cost of a bail-out could eventually total $125bn, far beyond the $34bn in loans and credit lines currently sought by the carmakers. But the mounting cost of bail-outs of the financial sector and more detailed restructuring plans submitted by the Big Three themselves have increased calls for aid for Detroit. Both congressional Democrats and the White House have softened positions they struck just two weeks ago as to the size and source of a new loan package. Thursday’s hearing, at the Senate banking committee, comes ahead of another day of testimony at the House of Representatives on Friday and a possible extraordinary session of Congress next week to vote on legislation. “Who among us believes we should risk the consequences of the collapse of one or more domestic automobile manufacturers?” asked Senator Chris Dodd, who chaired yesterday’s hearing, warning that such an outcome “plays Russian roulette with the entire economy of the US”. He added that the carmakers’ request was “modest” compared with the series of bail-outs for Wall Street. “There is no doubt that the automobile companies have done far more, far more, I would suggest, than the financial companies to show that they deserve taxpayer support.” Mr Dodd said that unless the Bush administration made changes to its operation of the $700bn troubled assets relief programme – which he accused of being ad hoc and unaccountable – he would not support the release of the second $350bn tranche of Tarp funds. A CNN poll released on Thursday showed that 61 per cent of respondents opposed using taxpayer funds to help Detroit. “We can’t let the industry fail, millions of workers lose their job,” added Senator Charles Schumer, rejecting the notion of a pre-packaged bankruptcy in which the federal government would extend the automakers funds only after they filed for Chapter 11. “Bankruptcy is not a viable option, because it will seal the death of the auto companies.” Speaking to the hearing, Mark Zandi, chief economist of Moody’s Economy.com, a subsidiary of the ratings agency, said the bail-out could cost between $75bn and $125bn because of an “extraordinarily weak vehicle sales outlook. |
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| (390237) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion |
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Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:24:10 2008, in response to The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008. Title corrected |
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| (390244) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 17:10:06 2008, in response to The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008. All I know is that if you wait until the 21st century to come up with an idea for a 21st century car, you're a bad investment.your pal, Fred |
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| (390247) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 4 17:36:52 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 17:10:06 2008. Hear, hear! More to the point, where's the bailout for the rest of us, who may be cold, hungry, and homeless before this winter is out, if current trends continue... |
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| (390254) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 17:56:17 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 17:10:06 2008. All I know is that if you wait until the 21st century to come up with an idea for a 21st century car, you're a bad investment.Well put. Let's hope that GM and Chrysler can quickly execute prepackaged Chapter 11 bankruptcies that gives them a fighting chance at getting their act together. |
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| (390263) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Dec 4 18:18:13 2008, in response to Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 17:56:17 2008. Based on the estimate of 241,189 US UAW auto workers, the cost per worker is:Bailout Billion$ = bailout per worker $25,000,000,000 = $103,653.15 $34,000,000,000 = $140,968.29 $75,000,000,000 = $310,959.46 $125,000,000,000 = $518,265.76 $250,000,000,000 = $1,036,531.52 |
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| (390264) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 18:18:38 2008, in response to Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 17:56:17 2008. You know the cherry on top of this whole thing is that they had to be shamed into driving their own cars to DC to testify. Damn you can't write stuff like that in fiction!!your pal, Fred |
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| (390265) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 18:19:34 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Dec 4 17:36:52 2008. We don't get bailouts; for us there are loans.your pal, Fred |
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| (390267) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Dec 4 18:46:43 2008, in response to Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Dan on Thu Dec 4 18:18:13 2008. Based on rough estimate of 16,500,000 cars produced by the Big 3 in 2007, the cost per car:Bailout Billion$ =bailout per auto $25,000,000,000 = $1,515.15 $34,000,000,000 = $2,060.61 $75,000,000,000 = $4,545.45 $125,000,000,000 = $7,575.76 $250,000,000,000 = $15,151.52 Hey, just take the bailout money right off the sticker price, Detroit will start selling cars again. |
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| (390270) | |
Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 18:56:58 2008, in response to Re: Big Three Need a Bailout of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Fred G on Thu Dec 4 18:18:38 2008. You know the cherry on top of this whole thing is that they had to be shamed into driving their own cars to DC to testify. Damn you can't write stuff like that in fiction!!Yeah, that's one of those things that if was put into a Hollywood movie before this really happened, people would groan because it is not believable. "Truth is stranger than fiction." |
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| (390302) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Thu Dec 4 23:33:55 2008, in response to The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008. One of the Big 3 should probably be allowed to fail or be forced into a shotgun wedding (the government would back up the warranties as a sale is then sought of the company). Then the other two will think about what they REALLY need. |
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| (390487) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 5 18:27:50 2008, in response to The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008. I hope the blue states shoulder the cost of this completely for being such failures. Then you can all have an inclusive support group. |
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| (390489) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 18:32:02 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 5 18:27:50 2008. If Dems are blue and GOP is red, what color is Libertarian? |
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| (390609) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Dec 6 02:52:14 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 18:32:02 2008. Black is the color of Anarchism. Libertarians are a sort of "organized anarchists" although they are anarcho-capitalists (yellow/black) as opposed to anarcho-syndicalists (red/black)The History Of The Black Flag Another anarcho-capitalist symbol is the Libertatis AEquilibris shown below: 
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| (390611) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Dec 6 03:11:23 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by SMAZ on Sat Dec 6 02:52:14 2008. THANKS for an interesting read! :) |
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| (390637) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 04:53:47 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 5 18:27:50 2008. get over it |
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| (390638) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Dec 6 04:54:14 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 18:32:02 2008. Puce |
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| (390649) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 6 05:31:42 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 5 18:32:02 2008. Yellow...'nuff said! |
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| (390650) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 6 05:39:03 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 5 18:27:50 2008. Except that many of the plants aren't in blue states (or are in states that voted for Obama this time but have normally voted GOP)...or even in the states. The only vehicles GM still makes in the USA are the SUVs, and at plants in Louisiana and Indiana, the former of which is a solid GOP state, and the latter of which only voted for Obama because of what the GOP did to Amtrak, a major employer in Indiana. In fact, most of the plants aren't even in the states.The simple fact is that the cars simply aren't attractive. In fact, this is something where Canadian authorities should be forcing cost reductions for GM and Chrysler (their major car plants are in Canada; Oshawa, and Brampton and Windsor, respectively). This has to do with one select group of persons only: UPPER MANAGEMENT! Have you been drinking McCain/Palin's Kool-Aid? |
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| (390651) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 6 05:44:10 2008, in response to The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Billion, posted by Russ on Thu Dec 4 16:22:02 2008. If this could be filibustered in the Senate---this would be great news, as perhaps the companies should be swallowed up or forced into bankruptcy if they can't survive. Then manufacturers that know what to do can then cherry pick parts for themselves.Also, GM should have done what Honda has done for some time: get into the farming business in the United States on a limited basis, and instead of sending empty containers back to Australia (Pontiac G8), Asia (some small Chevrolets made by the Daewoo subsidiary) or Germany (cars made by Opel), it could send produce in those containers. Honda already does that. The same could be done for Canada too. |
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| (390654) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sat Dec 6 06:06:58 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Dec 5 18:27:50 2008. I hope the blue states shoulder the cost of this completely for being such failures.Florida ia a blue State. |
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| (390676) | |
Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Sat Dec 6 07:14:27 2008, in response to Re: The Big Three Need a Bailot of $25 Billion, no make that $34 Billion, no make that $75-$125 Bill, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Dec 6 05:39:03 2008. Have you been drinking McCain/Palin's Kool-Aid?I think he has. |
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