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naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:12:15 2008 and you wonder why the market is crashing. And I heard this lady in an interview, she's a grade a moron.You put more money into social security, and you get less for it. Add to the list of things Barack Obama must do after he becomes president on Jan. 20: Fix the nation's retirement system and fast. And I'm not talking Social Security. That's the least of our worries. It's time for this country to fix how Americans save and invest for retirement, including IRAs but especially the 401(k), the employer-sponsored retirement plan of record for half of working Americans. Nearly 30 years after being introduced, the 401(k) has proven -- in some ways -- to be an abject failure and now would be as good a good time as any to overhaul it. Otherwise, Joe the average 401(k)/IRA investor is going to be in big trouble. [someone didn't tell this guy that the law now, recently passed by guess who, forces employers to enroll you now] The reasons are numerous, but let's start with the big ones: Americans, in general, have proven at every turn that they are incapable of making prudent decisions with their retirement plans. They don't save or invest wisely enough. In addition, they don't seem to understand the new risks of retirement, or how to mitigate, insure or transfer those risks. "American workers lack pension security, beyond Social Security, because individual commercial retirement accounts are tied to the volatility of finance markets, are inadequately funded, have poor net-of-fees returns, and do not pay a guaranteed rate of return for the rest of a retiree's life," said Teresa Ghilarducci, a professor at The New School for Social Research and author of "When I'm Sixty-four: The Plot Against Pensions and the Plan to Save Them." Consider: The eight in 10 workers who do participate in their 401(k) plan save on average just 5.6% of their salary, according to the Profit Sharing/401(k) Council's most recent annual survey of such plans. And according to Financial Engines, 36% percent of participants in 401(k) plans that offer company stock as an investment option have more than 20% of their savings in company shares. That's a bit more than what any prudent investor might recommend. And, by the way, just half of working Americans have access to a 401(k) at work. The other half seemingly aren't setting anything aside nor are employers seemingly willing, able or eager to sponsor a retirement plan. [what about IRA's?] ---- myself: It's actually the reuters piece that talks about getting your 401k taken away and converted to a shitty 3% social security t-bill. As market watch, they focused more on numbers and details about some options instead. But neither in print are as bad as it sounded FROM HER MOUTH. That I cannot convey. In case you missed it, you are stealing money from the gov't if you have one of these plans. The gov't needs that money, you don't. There should be no tax breaks for you or companies, or company matches. And, she also says, YOU LOSE MONEY BY HAVING A 401K PERSONALLY!! The gov't can take care of you much better than if you had your own savings. Hopefully the gov't won't go broke or run the program into the ground like social security, the gov'ts "most sucessful program". |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:18:21 2008, in response to naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:12:15 2008. Yup. And you will have to contribute to this social security t-bill, without getting a tax deduction. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:24:22 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:18:21 2008. because of this lady, I made the obvious realization that I pay more in SS taxes than I do in my 401k, and I actually have money in one of them.Yea they send you that form everyyear, but come on, gimme a break. She wants me to pay another 10% tax at a 3% rate? Are they kidding me? You know that chick makes good money at her teaching job, and her college takes away 10% of her income for a PENSION. That's how she came up with the plan, which is worse than what she has! |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:27:46 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:24:22 2008. She's the Italian chick from New York. Cunt. |
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Re: brownshirts plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:31:35 2008, in response to naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:12:15 2008. RALEIGH — Democrats in the U.S. House have been conducting hearings on proposals to confiscate workers’ personal retirement accounts — including 401(k)s and IRAs — and convert them to accounts managed by the Social Security Administration.Triggered by the financial crisis the past two months, the hearings reportedly were meant to stem losses incurred by many workers and retirees whose 401(k) and IRA balances have been shrinking rapidly. The testimony of Teresa Ghilarducci, professor of economic policy analysis at the New School for Social Research in New York, in hearings Oct. 7 drew the most attention and criticism. Testifying for the House Committee on Education and Labor, Ghilarducci proposed that the government eliminate tax breaks for 401(k) and similar retirement accounts, such as IRAs, and confiscate workers’ retirement plan accounts and convert them to universal Guaranteed Retirement Accounts (GRAs) managed by the Social Security Administration. Rep. George Miller, D-Calif., chairman of the House Committee on Education and Labor, in prepared remarks for the hearing on “The Impact of the Financial Crisis on Workers’ Retirement Security,” blamed Wall Street for the financial crisis and said his committee will “strengthen and protect Americans’ 401(k)s, pensions, and other retirement plans” and the “Democratic Congress will continue to conduct this much-needed oversight on behalf of the American people.” Currently, 401(k) plans allow Americans to invest pretax money and their employers match up to a defined percentage, which not only increases workers’ retirement savings but also reduces their annual income tax. The balances are fully inheritable, subject to income tax, meaning workers pass on their wealth to their heirs, unlike Social Security. Even when they leave an employer and go to one that doesn’t offer a 401(k) or pension, workers can transfer their balances to a qualified IRA. Mandating Equality The current retirement system, Ghilarducci said, “exacerbates income and wealth inequalities” because tax breaks for voluntary retirement accounts are “skewed to the wealthy because it is easier for them to save, and because they receive bigger tax breaks when they do.” Lauding GRAs as a way to effectively increase retirement savings, Ghilarducci wrote that savings incentives are unequal for rich and poor families because tax deferrals “provide a much larger ‘carrot’ to wealthy families than to middle-class families — and none whatsoever for families too poor to owe taxes.” GRAs would guarantee a fixed 3 percent annual rate of return, although later in her article Ghilarducci explained that participants would not “earn a 3% real return in perpetuity.” In place of tax breaks workers now receive for contributions and thus a lower tax rate, workers would receive $600 annually from the government, inflation-adjusted. For low-income workers whose annual contributions are less than $600, the government would deposit whatever amount it would take to equal the minimum $600 for all participants. In a radio interview with Kirby Wilbur in Seattle on Oct. 27, 2008, Ghilarducci explained that her proposal doesn’t eliminate the tax breaks, rather, “I’m just rearranging the tax breaks that are available now for 401(k)s and spreading — spreading the wealth.” All workers would have 5 percent of their annual pay deducted from their paychecks and deposited to the GRA. They would still be paying Social Security and Medicare taxes, as would the employers. The GRA contribution would be shared equally by the worker and the employee. Employers no longer would be able to write off their contributions. Any capital gains would be taxable year-on-year. ----- OMG! ANOTHER TAX, where I get less money this time. and 600 bucks? Times that by 30 years, look at what you got. I'm just calling them exactly what they are. Who else confiscates your assets? |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:35:28 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:27:46 2008. what type of person actually comes up with the idea in their own head that 401k's suck and is stealing money from the gov't?Now I turn around and wish they privatized social security. Australia has the superannuation fund, and they have good savings from it. I was against it at first, but looking around, what alternative do you have. Arent' pensions run that way? I also understand that Dubya forces you to automatically enroll in a 401k plan at 3% when you start a new job now. You have to call on your first day to opt out. Good deal. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:38:48 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:35:28 2008. None of this was considered by voters on Tuesday. The 401k stuff is scary. Even worse if they don't let you invest in an IRA. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:43:50 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:38:48 2008. This all happened a week after Argentina nationalized their pensions because they needed the money.26% crash in one day. Easy complains because his is down 30%. This stuff is big stuff. I've watched a lot of markets panic just because they were going to raise a tax 10 years from now too. And that's little things. This is big. And because CoNGRESS is talking about it, not some nut trying to sell a book only! |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:48:07 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:43:50 2008. Even though Easy is down 30%, if he sits down and figures out how much cash he put in, plus the tax breaks, plus earnings from the better years, he's still ahead. Probably the equivalent of a low interest CD or something. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:50:06 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:48:07 2008. ahh, net gain or loss from start not year over year, good point.Plus, who ever knows what their tax break is. Nothing good is ever listed on your stub. And they complain about gasoline taxes not being listed! pfft |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 01:54:46 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:50:06 2008. Right. For someone in the 30% tax bracket, it only costs yo .70 cents for every $1 you invest in your 401k. The government paid the other .30 cents. If you've been in the plan for several years, you're still better off than if you had paid taxes and on the money you put in the 401k. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 9 08:37:07 2008, in response to naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:12:15 2008. The point of the complaints against 401ks is not that they are bad, but that companies have used them as an excuse for getting rid of defined benefit pension plans.Ask Train Dude (or any other conservative MTA employee here) if he'd like to have his defined benefit pension plan replaced TOTALLY by a 401k with the average amount of assets a 401k of someone of his age and income would be likely to have, and listen to him scream. The safest pension for anyone is a mix of 401k and a defined benefit pension plan. But in recent years most employers (the MTA and NY State in general being a BIG exception) have gotten rid of their defined beneift pension plans and have put the ENTIRE non-social-security burden on the employee's 401k. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Nov 9 10:40:12 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 9 08:37:07 2008. Is that MTA defined benefit pension plan tax funded?your pal, Fred |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Nov 9 12:54:56 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Fred G on Sun Nov 9 10:40:12 2008. Is that MTA defined benefit pension plan tax funded?It is partially funded by employee contributions, but they don't cover the entire cost of benefits. The remainder is part of the MTA budget - funded by a combination of revenues, taxes, and (possibly, ugh) borrowing. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by Fred G on Sun Nov 9 21:07:47 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by AlM on Sun Nov 9 12:54:56 2008. Thanks!your pal, Fred |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 9 22:29:39 2008, in response to naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Nov 9 01:12:15 2008. You should be thankful, not angry. Pension plans tend to work better than 401(k)s. And this was a big sticking point that led to the transit strike of 2005. |
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Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Sun Nov 9 22:57:06 2008, in response to Re: naz...democrats plans to seize 401k assets, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Nov 9 22:29:39 2008. Wrongeira. The transit strike was over health care, if you believe TWU 100. Truth is, Toussaint called the strike to embarrass the Republican Party, in preparation for the Spitzer/Paterson ticket. |
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