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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 21:47:11 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 21:43:34 2008. Ask and you shall receive. This is 2004. If that does not work, click this link for the map. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Train Dude on Sat Sep 6 21:47:55 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 6 20:17:31 2008. And i'm sure that the democrats have tried to sign the bears up. Easier to get a paw print from a live bear than a signature from a corpse a la Chicago |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 21:48:42 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:20:03 2008. If you want an election map from 2004...you get an election map from 2004.Click here if no picture shows up. Interesting, isn't it? |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:53:33 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 21:47:11 2008. If Republicans don't woo Latino voters California will be out of reach forever. IINM lots of those red areas in the southern half of the state are already majority Latino, but they can't vote since they're not citizens. But their kids are... |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 6 22:00:52 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Train Dude on Sat Sep 6 21:47:55 2008. Heh. Nah, the bears aren't in nursing homes and can actually read. But they're REAL good at pulling levers. :)Ah well ... ain't gonna see EITHER of the candy-dates around here ... might as well vote for Smokey. (grin) |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 22:01:33 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 6 21:26:45 2008. Connecticut's just pissed off that we block their ocean waterfront.... |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 6 22:09:29 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 22:01:33 2008. Heh. Even more so about those cables across the sound, so I hear ... ah well. They should be grateful ... Long Island does serve a purpose - prevents serious beach erosion when hurricanes hit. Always kinda liked Sherwood Island myself. :) |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 22:10:25 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:53:33 2008. San Diego is still a Republican City, and has traditionally been, but it is swinging closer each year there.So Sacramento is also Republican? |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 22:26:42 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 22:10:25 2008. I think that 50% one under the all the red up top may be Sacramento, but I don't know how they normally vote. California used to vote for Republican Presidents, but that's been changing since Reagan. It's getting more and more liberal even as our Democratic legislature gets more and more incompetent. We still don't have a budget 3months later than we're supposed to. And Ahnold's not much good either. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 05:59:29 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 16:47:31 2008. I don't see it happening though it would be fun. More fun than 2000. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:04:30 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 17:38:37 2008. The small states already don't matter. Candidates don't campaign in small states because winning 3 electoral votes isn't worth the effort.THESE are the only states that matter. Look at all the small states that aren't represented! |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:08:17 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 18:51:18 2008. They already don't go to Wyoming Wyoming is the empty rectangle above all of those hands and/or dollar signs that are in Colorado. So much for "small states." I expect to see you repeat this tired old argument in another couple of months. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:21:27 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 6 20:14:37 2008. The interesting thing is that Buffalo, Syracuse and Albany are blue, while Rochester is red.Brunoland is also blue! |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:26:04 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sat Sep 6 16:48:53 2008. Why don't we just cut taxes to zero which under your flawed understanding of economics implies that revenues will be maxed out. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:31:24 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Sep 6 13:51:00 2008. I don't think Google has a Ge'ez language version. Why do you think sources in the liturgical language of the Ethiopian Church would be a good source? |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:11:45 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 05:59:29 2008. I thought that in a tie, the candidate that takes the most states has the advantage, the two senate based votes, in a tie. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:33:32 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:08:17 2008. In order to accomodate the small-state/big-state compromise that led to the 2-vote-per-state Senate, they needed a method to allow small states slightly greater weight in selecting a President. There was great fear in the past, and still is today that in a strict popular vote election, the urban states would decide all contests, and no candidate would even consider the issues of the smaller and rural states. That still is the basic reason for it, even if some states are less important. Another reason is sort of a block. In a close election for President, there would be great temptation for local officials to pad the vote if the election was strictly by popular vote. That can happen with the EC too, however, at least then it still is only limited to that particular state. Even in recent years it still can happen. Take Chicago and St Louis where counts have been suspect a few times. Another reason is that recounts are also then held to only a particular state or states where a problem arose. Take Florida for example in 2000. Consider the mess of a nationwide recount, with 50 state Supreme Courts, 50 sets of state election officials, and tens of thousands of local election boards. Some of whom are going to cheat to get their man over, and you know that can happen. We would still be recounting today in a close election like 2000. Also, there is the matter of needing a majority. In the electoral vote system, it is quite possible to have a majority of electoral votes without a majority of popular votes (we have seen that in 2000)....George Bush PI was the last president to be elected with a majority of popular votes.....Clinton, Carter, Nixon and Kennedy all were elected with less than 50% of the popular vote. But the EC all gave them a majority as the splinter party votes were eliminated at the state level. Occasionally, you can have a third party taking states, which happened last in the 60's. In a direct vote system, the requirement for a majority would be necessarily abolished. This is perhaps acceptable, but could lead to Presidents elected with over 60% opposition. While there are clear problems with the Electoral College bit there are also advantages to it, changing it is very unlikely. It would take a constituitional amendment ratified by 3/4 of states to change the system. It is hard to imagine the smaller states agreeing. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:35:37 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:33:32 2008. George Bush PI was the last president to be elected with a majority of popular votesThat's Bush I. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 7 09:06:12 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 16:47:31 2008. For the 17th time, the 269-269 split is not realistic. It requires McCain to win NH. That's not impossible, but if he does win NH, the election won't be close and he'll win all the swing states. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:06:55 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:33:32 2008. But they don't currently consider the rural states either. The only states that are considered are the ones that are geographically lucky enough to be constructed in such a way that they are evenly divided between the two parties. The small town people and the big city people in the non-swing states are completely ignored.Giving minority candidates a majority is a stupid function. Many elections in this country and in others get along fine with plurality victories. Even so, there are much better ways of handling this. Preferential voting is optimal, if difficult to implement (but NOT difficult to understand). It also makes it less likely that a national recount would be necessary, because the minor candidates would be eliminated by the final round of counting. Even if a national recount were necessary, it wouldn't necessarily be any more chaotic than a state recount. Although there would be many more ballots to count, there would be many more people to do it, as each state would have its own people to count ballots. Obviously if a national popular election were done, then any disputes would have to be handled exclusively by the federal courts, rather than this being a state by state affair. Placing all elections at the state level may have been practical in 1787, but today there is more national cohesion than there was in the 18th Century, so it is more practical. The Constitution wasn't made to remain the same; Article V is there for a reason. The smaller states currently do not have a voice under the electoral college. Why would they disagree to something where at least their voices would have a greater chance of being heard? Under the electoral college, the voters in Wyoming are worthless to the candidates. With a national popular vote, they would each be worth as much as the voters in Florida and Pennsylvania. As for the added expense: Democracy isn't cheap. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:10:54 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:11:45 2008. Nope...if no candidate gets more than half (i.e., a 269-all tie), the House chooses the president by state delegations, with each state delegation counting for one collective vote...and Democrats lead it 26-21 (include DC here), with 4 split down the middle.This system hasn't needed to be used since 1877, which also involved Florida. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:15:36 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 08:11:45 2008. No. In the event of a tie the House of Representatives picks the President (but not the VP), but they vote by state delegations, with each state having one vote and a majority of states (26) needed to win. Each state's vote is determined by whichever candidate the majority of the delegation votes for. In the event of a tie, that counts as an abstention by that state.The Senate picks the VP, in the ordinary fashion of one Senator one vote, but in the event of a tie the sitting VP doesn't get a vote. In the event that three or more candidates get electoral votes and that none of them have the needed 270 majority, then the House gets to choose from the top 3 for president, while the Senate gets to choose from amongst the top 2 for VP. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:18:18 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:10:54 2008. DC doesn't get to vote in the House. 25-21 is not enough.In the event the House fails to pick someone, the Vice President-elect becomes President on January 20. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Sep 7 09:18:41 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sat Sep 6 20:14:37 2008. Nassau, Suffolk, and Rockland may have gone for Lazio, but it was close there. So the NY Metro area went very heavily for Clinton.And Selkirk is right - most of the other red counties (except the outer NY suburbs like orange, and Rochester) don't have many people. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:19:18 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 22:26:42 2008. I wonder if they only voted for Reagan as one of their own...and if a Reagan Republican were to ever run again, CA may just go red. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:19:46 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:10:54 2008. DC doesn't get to vote in the House. 25-21 is not enough.In the event the House fails to pick someone, the Vice President-elect becomes President on January 20. Also, this system has not been used since 1824. It was not used in 1876. Hayes won the majority of the electoral vote in a manner similar to 2000. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:20:33 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:18:18 2008. Actually, the 26 is right...the 21 is off. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:22:04 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 09:15:36 2008. At the current time, the Democrats control 26 House of Representative state delegations...and 4 states are split down the middle. How big could the Republican losses loom?That is why I have been saying that a tie goes to Obama. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 09:47:48 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 21:48:42 2008. Interesting, isn't it?Especially Alpine and Mono counties. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:07:34 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:22:37 2008. I wonder if our red/blue definitions are confusing for international subchatters. My understanding is that red=left in most of the world. As in communism, red china, etc.Or in Britain a ghastly fusion of crypto-communist social illiberality and opposition to all things democratic combined with neo-liberal economic corruption. Whether this means the Labour Party is a left-wing or a right-wing party is anyone's guess. So, no, the U.S. color conventions aren't confusing in the least! |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:32:23 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:21:27 2008. Stranger still, Rochester has a Democrat as mayor. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:36:30 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 7 09:06:12 2008. For the 17th time, the 269-269 split is not realistic. It requires McCain to win NH.Not true. There are plenty of other relatively realistic scenarios ending up as 269-269, e.g. largely as 2004, but Democrats gain Iowa, Colorado, and the 2nd District of Nebraska. This site is a fun way of seeing what different combinations result in. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 10:38:21 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:32:23 2008. New York City has had many Republican Mayors. |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:55:16 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 10:38:21 2008. True, but NYC politics is weird. I wasn't aware that Rochester politics was weird too. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 11:38:22 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:55:16 2008. There are many times that people can vote over party lines. If the "better" candidate is the person of the non majority party, that candidate will often win. That has been the case in NY. The only way for a Republican mayor to win NYC is for him to also appeal to Democratic voters. |
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Posted by Dand124 on Sun Sep 7 11:38:53 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sat Sep 6 21:43:34 2008. http://uselectionatlas.org/all sorts of maps there |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:52:02 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sat Sep 6 17:31:15 2008. Which will never happen since the electoral college makes the presidential election process fair to all states. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:53:29 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:04:30 2008. However, there are many LARGE states which are ignored, like New York and Texas. It's not their size, it's the ability to win them. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:56:32 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 6 20:17:31 2008. That's the reason why New York is a blue state, because Democrats dominate the high population areas. However, without New York City and Westchester, NY would be a battleground state. It's guns and God outside urban areas here. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:00:14 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:53:33 2008. Plenty of illegals vote in California. The Latino vote isn't always dominated by the Democrats. Bush won a sizable chunk of them in both 2000 and 2004. I can see McCain getting 30% in November. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:02:09 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Easy on Sat Sep 6 21:22:37 2008. I think the whole idea of red/blue is silly, since it marginalizes the lesser base in every state. There are liberals in Mississippi and there are hardcore conservatives in New York. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:04:16 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 10:38:21 2008. Who have been liberal. Real Republicans don't win here. LaGuardia, Lindsey and Giuliani are prime examples. Bloomberg was never a real Republican and should not count. |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:06:29 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 10:55:16 2008. NY Republicans, on the local and state level are really moderate Democrats in practice, if not name. That's the problem with the state party as a whole, there's no real distinction between them and the Democrats, which leaves true conservatives turned off. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:08:02 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AlM on Sun Sep 7 09:18:41 2008. And those red areas are also the ones losing population, as opposed to the blue ones, which are gaining. |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 16:09:32 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Sep 7 06:08:17 2008. They don't go to Wyoming because they don't have to. It's solidly Republican. Again, it's not size, it's the ability to win the state. |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 16:46:21 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:56:32 2008. You even have pockets of that on eastern Long Island on the North Fork. Once you get to Yaphank, Manorville, and east of there, it's a different world. |
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Posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 16:51:54 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:52:02 2008. Even if McCain were to lose the electoral vote (or tie and watch a tie go to Obama), while getting more popular votes? |
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Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Sun Sep 7 16:55:35 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 16:51:54 2008. Perhaps you can go for the 269th time you mention this supoosed point. :) |
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Posted by Kew Gardens Teleport on Sun Sep 7 17:04:54 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Sep 7 15:56:32 2008. However, without New York City and Westchester, NY would be a battleground state. It's guns and God outside urban areas here.But it would probably be more of a Pennsylvania or an Ohio than an Indiana or a West Virginia. |
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Posted by SMAZ on Sun Sep 7 19:03:44 2008, in response to Re: List Of Books Palin Tried To Have Banned, posted by AMoreira81 on Sun Sep 7 09:22:04 2008. Interestingly enough, if somebody flips you may not have a majority of State delgations so the VP (elected by the Senate) would become Acting President. Since the Dems are gonna pick up several seats in Nov we could be looking at Acting President Joe Biden on Jan 20th. |
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