Thomas Jefferson's Bible: Rejection of Christian myth; acceptance of a creator

Thomas Jefferson's Bible: Rejection of Christian myth; acceptance of a creator (332971)	Home · Maps · About

Home > OTChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(332971)	view threaded
Thomas Jefferson's Bible: Rejection of Christian myth; acceptance of a creator
Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 01:08:07 2008 edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Link here The knuckle-draggers and self-righteous slime bucket Bible thumpers among us tell all kinds of fiction about what our Founding Fathers wanted for this country. A look at Jefferson's thoughts on the Bible is very enlightening. He did indeed believe in a Creator, but very purposefully left the Christian superstitions out of it. And he was not alone in doing so: Link here
Post a New Response

(333000)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 5 02:31:41 2008, in response to Thomas Jefferson's Bible: Rejection of Christian myth; acceptance of a creator, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 01:08:07 2008. edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Why did you have to lie about what the article says? I'm going to paste the text so that people can make up their own minds about it versus you trying to ram your views down everybody's throat. Jefferson Bible reveals Founding Father's view of God, faith Nation's third president compiled the four Gospels into a single text without miracles that ends with Jesus' burial rather than the resurrection.By Louis Sahagun, Los Angeles Times Staff Writer July 5, 2008 Making good on a promise to a friend to summarize his views on Christianity, Thomas Jefferson set to work with scissors, snipping out every miracle and inconsistency he could find in the New Testament Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Then, relying on a cut-and-paste technique, he reassembled the excerpts into what he believed was a more coherent narrative and pasted them onto blank paper — alongside translations in French, Greek and Latin. In a letter sent from Monticello to John Adams in 1813, Jefferson said his "wee little book" of 46 pages was based on a lifetime of inquiry and reflection and contained "the most sublime and benevolent code of morals which has ever been offered to man." He called the book "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth." Friends dubbed it the Jefferson Bible. It remains perhaps the most comprehensive expression of what the nation's third president and principal author of the Declaration of Independence found ethically interesting about the Gospels and their depiction of Jesus. "I have performed the operation for my own use," he continued, "by cutting verse by verse out of the printed book, and arranging the matter, which is evidently his and which is as easily distinguished as diamonds in a dunghill." The little leather-bound tome, several facsimiles of which are kept at the Huntington Library in San Marino, continues to fascinate scholars exploring the powerful and varied relationships between the Founding Fathers and the most sacred book of the Western World. The big question now, said Lori Anne Ferrell, a professor of early modern history and literature at Claremont Graduate University, is this: "Can you imagine the reaction if word got out that a president of the United States cut out Bible passages with scissors, glued them onto paper and said, 'I only believe these parts?' " "He was a product of his age," said Ferrell, whose upcoming book, "The Bible and the People," includes a chapter on the Jefferson Bible. "Yet, he is the least likely person I'd want to pray with. He was more skeptical about religion than the other Founding Fathers." In Jefferson's version of the Gospels, for example, Jesus is still wrapped in swaddling clothes after his birth in Bethlehem. But there's no angel telling shepherds watching their flocks by night that a savior has been born. Jefferson retains Jesus' crucifixion but ends the text with his burial, not with the resurrection. Stripping miracles from the story of Jesus was among the ambitious projects of a man with a famously restless mind. At 71, he read Plato's "Republic" in the original Greek and found it lackluster. Ever the scientist, he inoculated his wife, children and many of his slaves against smallpox with fresh pus drawn from infected domestic farm animals, according to Robert C. Ritchie, W.M. Keck Foundation director of research at the Huntington Library. "For a lot of people, taking scissors to the Bible would be such an act of desecration they wouldn't do it," Ritchie said. "Yet, it gives a reading into Jefferson's take on the Bible, which was not as divine word put into print, but as a book that can be cut up." Jefferson, a tall vigorous man who preferred Thucydides and Cicero to the newspapers of his day, was not the only 18^th century leader who questioned traditional Christian teachings. Like many other upper-class, educated citizens of the new republic, including George Washington, Jefferson was a deist. Deists differed from traditional Christians by rejecting miraculous occurrences and prophecies and embracing the notion of a well-ordered universe created by a God who withdrew into detached transcendence. Critics of the time regarded deism as an ill-conceived attempt to reconcile religion with scientific discoveries. For rationalists in the Age of Enlightenment, deism was one of many efforts to liberate humankind from what the deists viewed as superstitious beliefs. Jefferson was a particular fan of Joseph Priestley, a scientist, ordained minister and one of Jefferson's friends. Priestley — who discovered oxygen and invented carbonated water and the rubber eraser — published books that infamously cast a critical eye upon biblical miracles. Jefferson was particularly fond of Preistley's comparison of the lives and teachings of Socrates and Jesus. Discussions and letters between Jefferson and another friend, Philadelphia physician Benjamin Rush, led Jefferson to compile his "wee little book." In a letter to Rush on April 21, 1803, Jefferson said his editing experiment aimed to see whether the ethical teachings of Jesus could be separated from elements he believed were attached to Christianity over the centuries. "To the corruption of Christianity I am indeed opposed," he wrote to Rush, "but not to the genuine precepts of Jesus himself." Therefore, Ritchie said, "for Jefferson, the Bible was a book that could be made and unmade." The Jefferson Bible remained largely unknown beyond a close circle of relatives and friends until 1904, when its publication was ordered by Congress. About 9,000 copies were issued and distributed in the Senate and the House. Today several editions of the Jefferson Bible are available through booksellers. A few online versions exist, including one on the website of the Jefferson Monticello, www.monticello.org/library/links/jefferson.html. It is hard to say whether Jefferson would have objected to publication of the book. "Say nothing of my religion," Jefferson once said. "It is known to myself and my God alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life; if that has been honest and dutiful to society, the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one."
Post a New Response

(333056)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Sat Jul 5 08:26:18 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 5 02:31:41 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I am currently reading Richard Dawkins' "The God Delusion", which is turning out to be a stunning indictment of religion and the evils it has wrought upon our world. Dawkins makes some very cogent arguments about why "there almost certainly is no God". In his book, he refers to Thomas Jefferson several times, noting that Jefferson felt traditional Christianity was a threat to the newly-founded Republic. Reading Dawkins, however, I wonder if killing our gods is psychologically feasible for many of us at all...so deeply entrenched in our collective minds is the concept of an intelligent "superintendent of our Universe".
Post a New Response

(333096)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sat Jul 5 10:26:01 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jul 5 08:26:18 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It's outdated. Jefferson wrote that stuff when America was mostly German, with British culture, and a VERY LARGE Quaker contingent. How many Quakers, or English or German religious sects do we have? Do they bring planes down? Benjamin Rush is a middle school in the Ghetto now too. There's a war going on out there.
Post a New Response

(333119)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Sat Jul 5 11:41:48 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 10:26:01 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d There was a very famous ad posted in the London Daily Mail, which a former Warden of Oxford sent me a few years ago: it asks, "Imagine a world without religion", and it shows a picture of the Twin Towers standing tall. The ad ran in 2003...
Post a New Response

(333123)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sat Jul 5 11:51:39 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 10:26:01 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Both you and Prolog missed the whole point of the article. As usual.
Post a New Response

(333137)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sat Jul 5 12:58:36 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jul 5 11:41:48 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d that's bunk....
Post a New Response

(333139)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sat Jul 5 12:58:52 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 11:51:39 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d ....and the article is outdated and divorced from reality.
Post a New Response

(333171)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sat Jul 5 13:48:57 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 12:58:36 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No it's not
Post a New Response

(333172)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sat Jul 5 13:49:33 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 12:58:52 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d as are you.
Post a New Response

(333186)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sat Jul 5 14:40:37 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 5 13:48:57 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d no no you're right. If it weren't for the native Americans, or those blimey Buddists, the twin towers would still be standing. You two convinced me.
Post a New Response

(333187)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sat Jul 5 14:41:21 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 5 13:49:33 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d good comeback. Still batting a thousand in wasting bandwidth with posts containing no substance. Keep up the good work.
Post a New Response

(333195)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Jul 5 14:56:30 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jul 5 08:26:18 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Dawkins' arguments are false. The very fact that society is falling apart is an indictment of his delusions. Citing Jefferson as an authority on anything is folly.
Post a New Response

(333196)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Jul 5 14:57:46 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jul 5 11:41:48 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That's communist propaganda. That movement wants to eradicate religion by force. They'll never achieve it, though.
Post a New Response

(333197)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Jul 5 14:58:11 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 5 13:48:57 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d How is it not?
Post a New Response

(333198)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Jul 5 14:59:23 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Jul 5 11:51:39 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No . . . like I said, you want to ram your views down everyone's throat. At least everybody's making up their own minds now. Your mind, unfortunately, is shut tight.
Post a New Response

(333251)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sat Jul 5 18:06:48 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 14:41:21 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Thank you
Post a New Response

(333274)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sat Jul 5 21:04:51 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sat Jul 5 11:41:48 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d TRUTH!
Post a New Response

(333279)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sat Jul 5 21:11:30 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 5 21:04:51 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d 8-)
Post a New Response

(333283)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Edwards!* on Sat Jul 5 21:19:28 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sat Jul 5 12:58:36 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No..there IS TRUTH to what he said.... Religion HAS brought nothing but DEATH to all that partake of it... Faith is something compleatly different.
Post a New Response

(333297)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sat Jul 5 22:28:33 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jul 5 21:19:28 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d If you're distinguishing real religion from organized religion, then I agree. But the ad he speaks of is pure commie propaganda.
Post a New Response

(333302)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Edwards!* on Sat Jul 5 22:39:45 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 5 22:28:33 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You hit it right on the head...to a point. "Commie Propaganda" made a point to replace "GOD" with the GREAT SOVIET..A Pure HUMANIST IDEAL... Faith is something "Organized religion" NEVER HAD...it's faith is in itself...pure ..simple..to the point.
Post a New Response

(333382)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Sun Jul 6 09:19:32 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 5 14:56:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Society is falling apart because we've forgotten the principles of compassion and community that separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom (see my post "Woman Dies In Hospital, Ignored By Staff"). We plunder our natural resources, live for instant gratification, practice bigotry and hatred on a truly astonishing scale, and wage war without end. We fracture ourselves at every opportunity, and often, we do this in God's name. History is littered with examples of that, such as Manifest Destiny, the Crusades, 9/11, etc., ad nauseaum...
Post a New Response

(333396)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jul 6 10:56:08 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Edwards! on Sat Jul 5 21:19:28 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d false
Post a New Response

(333397)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jul 6 10:56:30 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Jul 5 21:04:51 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d false, wars can and have been started over other things.
Post a New Response

(333408)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Orange Blossom Special* on Sun Jul 6 12:14:50 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Olog-hai on Sat Jul 5 14:58:11 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Those bleeping Huguenots! Spelling doesn't look right. If I were to think about it, just now, I'd say if it weren't for religion, the towers would've never existed. The Huguenots, Quakers, Pilgrams, catholics and jews would've never come to the US for money and religious freedom, and then, no towers. Circular arguement ends 1-200 years before it.
Post a New Response

(333487)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 19:00:33 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jul 6 09:19:32 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d If history is littered with examples, then how could society be falling apart if that's how society always worked?
Post a New Response

(333488)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 19:01:19 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 10:56:30 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, but in this particular instance war was started over this thing.
Post a New Response

(333489)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 19:03:01 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Orange Blossom Special on Sun Jul 6 12:14:50 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d False. The Dutch started their colony for financial reasons only. While pilgrims came here for religious reasons, the settlers of Virginia Colony did not. So people would still have come here to make money and America would still have started.
Post a New Response

(333497)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jul 6 19:16:04 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:01:19 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d But I'm saying that in your hypothetical situation of a world without religion, the war could have been started over something else, leading to the same conclusion, the destruction of the Twin Towers.
Post a New Response

(333498)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by orange blossom special* on Sun Jul 6 19:18:31 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:03:01 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d a very small America, still of people with the same religious background. You didn't completely false me, except you subtracted a lotta boats of people.
Post a New Response

(333501)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by AlM* on Sun Jul 6 19:26:25 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:03:01 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Not to mention that the Spanish in New Mexico and California, the French in Quebec, and the English in Canada also started successful settlements that were not based on religious dissent.
Post a New Response

(333503)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sun Jul 6 19:28:24 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jul 6 19:18:31 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d No, he got it right, and you got it wrong.
Post a New Response

(333506)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 19:39:09 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Jul 6 19:18:31 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d False. Read AlM's post. It seems that most people who colonized America did so for non-religious reasons. So New England wouldn't exist. Big deal.
Post a New Response

(333508)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 19:39:50 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 19:16:04 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I disagree. A different war would have been fought differently.
Post a New Response

(333512)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by RonInBayside* on Sun Jul 6 20:00:56 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:39:09 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Even the Puritans did it for power. The ostensible reason was religious freedom, but the Puritans were no more demmocratic about that than the English. It was power dressed in religion.
Post a New Response

(333514)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Jul 6 20:09:55 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:39:09 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It seems that most people who colonized America did so for non-religious reasons Does it?
Post a New Response

(333516)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Jul 6 20:11:11 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by AlM on Sun Jul 6 19:26:25 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They didn't let the natives keep their religion(s). So there was a bit more to it than that.
Post a New Response

(333517)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Jul 6 20:12:32 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:03:01 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d False. The Dutch started their colony for financial reasons only proff? You can honestly say that they also didn't mind a bigger barrier between them and where the RCC's influence was strongest?
Post a New Response

(333520)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jul 6 20:23:40 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:39:50 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I disagree. I think that the WTC (or any NYC landmark) would be a relatively attractive terrorist target regardless of reason.
Post a New Response

(333523)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Sun Jul 6 21:07:02 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 19:16:04 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Of course.
Post a New Response

(333529)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Sun Jul 6 22:16:24 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Jul 6 20:23:40 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Differently-motivated terrorists would act differently.
Post a New Response

(333531)	view threaded
Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Terrapin Station* on Sun Jul 6 22:17:38 2008, in response to Re: Jeffersion Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 22:16:24 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They could. But there is are infinite possibilities. One or more them could involve targeting the WTC and bringing it down.
Post a New Response

(333588)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by JayZeeBMT* on Mon Jul 7 05:52:40 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Jul 6 19:00:33 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Society hasn't always worked. The 20th century was by far the most violently destructive era in human history.
Post a New Response

(333591)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Mon Jul 7 06:28:48 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Mon Jul 7 05:52:40 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The crusades were also violently destructive. So were the Mongol conquests and the colonization of the Americas.
Post a New Response

(333813)	view threaded
Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?
Posted by Olog-hai* on Tue Jul 8 00:47:04 2008, in response to Re: Jefferson Rewrites the Bible?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jul 6 09:19:32 2008.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Examples of such done in "God's name"? especially 20^th Century examples? Not that "(doing things) in God's name" means that it's actually what God told them to do. Society is falling apart because we've forgotten the principles of compassion and community that separate us from the rest of the animal kingdom (see my post "Woman Dies In Hospital, Ignored By Staff") I saw that on the news as well. Was that performed in God's name? I'm glad you acknowledge that we are separated from animals on some level. Spain has given apes rights on the human level, of late. We plunder our natural resources, live for instant gratification, practice bigotry and hatred on a truly astonishing scale, and wage war without end "We"? I think you're making a blanket statement, here. Most people are trying to merely make a living. It's the people with the power that are actually shaping things on a societal level, especially when it comes to making families disintegrate (something that Marx wanted to do, most definitely not in God's name or in the name of any other spiritual entity or deity-like being). History is littered with examples of that, such as Manifest Destiny, the Crusades, 9/11, etc., ad nauseaum Like I said above, there's a difference between invoking God's name and actually doing what God tells you to do — and we have a book that speaks against doing evil in God's name, with these precepts more flouted than anything else. (As for "Manifest Destiny", if you're equating that with the Crusades and 9/11, you need to study history a bit better, and include sources that are not biased and/or revisionist. The phrase was not originally territorial in nature, nor did it ever become so specifically.)
Post a New Response

[ Return to the Message Index ]