| USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? (246012) | |
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USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007 Can't blame Clinton on this one hundred percent, much as the Neocon supporters may try. The Neocons themselves supported this all the way, and Bush continued it to the further detriment of Taiwan. What next—Taiwan gets handed over to the Reds like Xianggong and Ao-men (aw, who says Hong Kong and Macau anymore).International Relations and Security Network – Security Watch
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007. Even if Bush and the Neo-hawks tried, there ain't much stopping Taiwan and China from going at it.Sooner or later the "Republic of China" will decide to go it alone, particularly once they fully figure out (if they haven't done so already, as their UN seat bid may evidence) that their giant unfriendly neighbors have their key ally by its nuts - and that their key ally is bogged down half a world away with almost no hope of extracting itself. And besides, word on the street is that Admiral Fallon (who apparently has the foreign policy idea of accommodating PRC's interests if given the chance) is at odds with General Petraeus (who is accommodating the interests of the neo-hawks, so much so that he merely read out the "report back" that the White House extensively edited.) So for the "Republic of China," there isn't much to pin its hopes on when it comes to the US military and who's foreign policy idea will win. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 03:13:48 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007. Hong Kong is Xianggang, not Xianggong. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 03:44:54 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007. Ding! :(We're also trying to get the two Koreas dating again. "One World Government" was once the province of nutcakes ... but it's QUITE obvious that the nutcakes are now IN CHARGE. :( |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:50:24 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 03:44:54 2007. We're also trying to get the two Koreas dating againNah; they're doing that all on their own. "One World Government" was once the province of nutcakes ... but it's QUITE obvious that the nutcakes are now IN CHARGE FTR, Red China was always about that. They hold to the belief that communism can't work properly until all nations all over the globe embrace it. (That's right out of the Manifesto, too.) |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 03:13:48 2007. Semantics. It's Hong Kong. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:53:18 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007. Even if Bush and the Neo-hawks triedThe point is, of course, that they never "tried" and they are in fact pushing Red China's agenda along stronger than ever. You know why, right? |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 05:29:37 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:50:24 2007. Geez, buddy ... please go into "Chronological" mode in prefs here, and read my comments about "NY TIMES liberal" whatever around the message you replied to. Lemme go "protestant" for a sec ... and a recent popular ChrisCraft/ChrisSheen" satirical/misquote kinda song ... "spin spin spin is what you're living in" ...SOUTH Korea has had its funding cut since 2001 to "nothing" and face it, KIA's are not selling well and SAMSUNG and HYUNDAI (Sun Myung Moon, Washington Times) are not selling well here lately. THEY have no choice but to do what every OTHER nation we've abandoned (including Chavezland) which have *CHEAP OIL* (gee, WHY are we pissing off every nation with oil and paying $3+ a gallon? Damned LIBERALS!) So they *KNOW* (like every OTHER nation on the planet) that the UNITED STATES says "phuck you!" What CHOICE do they have? HELL ... *WE* even phucked ISRAEL! (Lebanon) Why? Iraq. :( *WE* phucked Israel with the most massive high hard one that we've given ANYONE! And I stand amused at how many of the (ahem) "Jewish persuasion" actually come HERE and have the chutzpah to SUPPORT Bush and his "Pax AMERICANA party!" Jeez ... KKK not enough? :-\ Republicans have (for the past 20 years) offered "black Helicopters," "UN Blue helmets goose-stepping up CPW" and other nonsense. I remember when Reagan, and Daddy Bush were in power. "Militias" were the RAGE in America when GOP held power. Guns, mortars, tanks a lot. Heh. Why is it that "one world government" or as spun by FOX, "spreading democracy in the Middle East" is a republican thing? Sorry ... the dichotomy is ... well ... errrr ... "chewy." Ptoo. :( |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 05:58:06 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 05:29:37 2007. Guess where we learned all that from. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 06:17:29 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 05:58:06 2007. Duh. :(And yet Faux Nooze calls us the "L-word." Sorry, Freikorps just doesn't do it for me. TOO Falwell. :( |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 09:25:19 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007. Sorry, Taiwan is lost. Not muslum. We're too busy trying to get a Kosovo for some reason and a "palestine" while ignoring Taiwan and Kurdistan.Even without that, China has the votes. They bought 75% of Africa, have some of the mid-east, and a few in Latin America. America is one vote. The AU and OIC outvotes everyone. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:34:47 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007. OK. So Olog-Hai is really Olleg-No. It's just semantics. |
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Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007. For decades, Taiwan has prospered under a veil of ambiguity. This has minimized the mainland's saber-rattling while allowing Taiwan's economy to boom.The US does not want to encourage the hawks in Beijing's government to get into a direct shooting war. Taiwan's membership in the UN would brinmg it some benefits, but it isn't critical. It's not going to help Taipei do much it doesn't already do, and it will put Uncle Sam on the hook to defend the island. If the Chinese assumed an overt attack posture, the US Seventh Fleet would have to enter the Taiwan Straits. I'm fine with that in an extreme emergency, but Taiwan's entry to the UN doesn't qualify as an extreme need. US Administrations are looking to the future (neither Republicans no Democrats have encouraged Taiwan to officially declare independence) where, hopefully, the legislators in Beijing will be replaced by people with no stake in Taiwan. It happened in Russia: When Gorbachev replaced a long line of apparachiks like Brezhniev and Chernienko, the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union entered their "terminal phase." And NATO did not have to fire a single shot. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 11:56:02 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:53:18 2007. Those are the "nuts" I was referring to. |
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Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 12:24:27 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007. FWIW, as I don't follow the Taiwan story though I've always liked the China story, China has the votes in the UN for anything I suspect. Second, the UN seems pretty void since China just signed a massive deal with Iran today, or recently:Iran's interior minister said Friday his country has finalized oil and gas projects with China, adding that two-way trade was on target to hit US$20 billion (€14.4 billion) this year among robust commercial ties. They don't care about the UN, sanctions, or human rights. Who has been propping up Sudan all these years, vetoing every bill against Sudan since 1997 until just the last two years? China. And third. I assume it depends on their image. Will China give something up because it's not worth it, or will they keep going at it to maintain a rising power image in the world? Anyone see those stories last week about the largest attack on Pentagon Computers ever, originating from the Red Army? Since reading that one, I swear I read something about China not relying on computers as much as other countries for their military. Chinese military hackers have prepared a detailed plan to disable America’s aircraft battle carrier fleet with a devastating cyber attack, according to a Pentagon report obtained by The Times. Though that deserves it's own thread. I don't know if they'd do another Korea, and Status Quo may work, but I'm not so sure they're going to give it up. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 12:36:54 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007. "Gong" and "gang" are two different words. It's like calling New York "New Yark." |
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Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 12:53:00 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 12:24:27 2007. Chinese hackers will not disable aircrafdt carrier battle groups. That's just fluff circulated for consumption so right-wing nuts will panic. |
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Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 13:05:35 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 12:53:00 2007. They've been working on cyber warfare since Clinton.The great thing about Computers is: Nothings impossible no matter how hard or improbable. Though I'd guess it gets harder everyyear to do what guys currently in jail for have done. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:37:28 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007. You some kind of commie? You just said that it's OK for the USA to be Peking's bitch and to go back on all promises made to Taiwan. Everything you said is utter BS. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:38:15 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:34:47 2007. You're confused, as usual. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:40:01 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 12:36:54 2007. You're a little too deep into this.Hanyu Pinyin is communist-approved. Reject it. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 15:40:15 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:37:28 2007. You dream about the US and China going to war so you can go up in a blaze of glory. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:41:22 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 15:40:15 2007. You dream of Red China taking over the US. You don't think we can beat them? |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Sep 14 17:59:32 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:41:22 2007. That's up to wal-mart.Just look at Bentonville. It's as Chinese as Africa is. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 18:29:47 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 09:25:19 2007. Yeah in the Un, w/China they won't allow Taiwan have a seat in the UN I think. And I wonder if the US is stretched too thin to send one aircraft carrier to China to protect Taiwan. Especially as how all China has to do is liquidate its ownership of US debt and plunge us into bankruptcy. or i'm just over thinking this fear |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 19:58:46 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007. Read the history of taiwan. When the Nationalists fled the communists in 1948, they settled on the island of Formosa. The native Formosans were immediately KILLED.FUCK TAIWAN. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 19:58:46 2007. Real mature of you. And staying behind in china to get slaughtered would've been better |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 20:17:35 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007. I repeat, FUCK TAIWAN. We owe them NOTHING. Besides, if you believe the freidmanists, China is our friend. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 20:17:37 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007. Might I suggest a read here:http://www.taiwandc.org/228-intr.htm Despite BIE's phrasing, when Chiang Kai-shecky's people escaped to what is now Taiwan, tens of thousands of natives were murdered by the new inhabitants. He is absolutely correct about the events of February 28, 1947 ... more here: http://cinemaspace.berkeley.edu/Papers/CityOfSadness/thread.html Sorry for it being Berkeley, but they archived the usenet threads which contain a lot more detail ... |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Sep 14 23:15:09 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 18:29:47 2007. That's what happens when one group stops thinking ahead more than 4 years, and the other thinks ahead to infinity. |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 15 00:24:58 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 20:17:37 2007. Has Taiwan come to terms with this? |
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Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 15 00:36:36 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 15 00:24:58 2007. It is now commemorated as "Peace Memorial Day" ... more here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_Incident |
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