Home · Maps · About

Home > OTChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

(246012)

view threaded

USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Can't blame Clinton on this one hundred percent, much as the Neocon supporters may try. The Neocons themselves supported this all the way, and Bush continued it to the further detriment of Taiwan. What next—Taiwan gets handed over to the Reds like Xianggong and Ao-men (aw, who says Hong Kong and Macau anymore).

International Relations and Security Network – Security Watch

September 11, 2007

US-Taiwan: status quo strain

In Washington, Taiwan expresses its frustration over US insistence to maintain the status quo rather than accepting the 'reality', as the island republic seeks a UN seat under the name Taiwan.

By Peter Buxbaum in Washington, DC for ISN Security Watch (11/09/07)


Strains in US-Taiwan relations were evident when a frustrated Taiwanese president addressed an audience in Washington last week from Taipei, by way of a video hookup.

That relations between Taipei and Washington should be strained is in itself remarkable, since there are no official ties between the two countries.

But the Bush administration has come down hard on Taiwan's President Chen Shui-bian and his plan to hold a popular referendum on whether the Republic of China - the official name of the island republic - should apply to the UN under the name Taiwan.

"Taiwan for a long time has been the obedient child of the United States, a student who behaves well," said Chen, speaking through a translator. "There are many policy areas in which we are in agreement, but these should not be taken for granted."

Chen was insisting, in other words, that he would press forward with his referendum plans, despite US objections. More than that, Chen was complaining that the US had cut off meaningful communications with his government.

"In the past, we have had good communications channels and substantive dialog with senior administration officials," said Chen. "These are lacking currently."

Since 1979, Taiwan has occupied a shadowy space in US policy. In January of that year, the US changed its diplomatic recognition of China's government from Taipei to Beijing. The People's Republic of China had already occupied the China seat in the UN since 1971, when its predecessor, the delegation from the Republic of China, was expelled.

In a 1979 Washington-Beijing joint communiqué, the US recognized the government of the People's Republic of China as the sole legal government of China and acknowledged the Chinese position that there is but one China and that Taiwan is a part of China.

Later in 1979, however, the US Congress passed the Taiwan Relations Act, which authorized unofficial US relations with Taiwan through the American Institute in Taiwan and the Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office in the US. The same legislation also authorized the sale of defensive military equipment to Taiwan.

The current US position on Taiwan, as reflected in a statement by President George W Bush in December 2003, is to oppose any attempt by either side to unilaterally alter the status quo. The US specifically does not support Taiwan independence, but does support Taiwan's membership in international organizations, such as the World Trade Organization, the APEC forum and the Asian Development Bank.

'Reality' vs status quo

Taiwan's bid for UN membership, under whatever name, is clearly seen as a breach of the status quo by the Bush administration. "The United States is not opposed to referenda in principle," said a State Department spokesperson. "The United States opposes any initiative that appears designed to change Taiwan's status unilaterally. This would include a referendum on whether to apply to the United Nations under the name Taiwan."

The State Department sees an application for UN membership as a possible first step towards a Taiwanese declaration of independence.

"We believe it's important to avoid any kind of provocative steps on the part of Taiwan," said the spokesperson. "We believe that pursuing a referendum of this kind could be interpreted as a step towards a declaration of independence, and we do not believe that that would be a constructive way on the part of the Taiwan authorities to pursue their interests."

Chen does not deny that Taiwan's UN application would change the diplomatic status quo, but he does insist that it reflects reality.

"We wish to apply for membership in the United Nations as a new member state," he said. "Taiwan is an independent country and not part of the People's Republic of China. Sovereignty rests with its 23 million people and there is no need to for anyone to tell them that Taiwan is a country. Taiwan and the PRC are separate countries. Neither exercises jurisdiction on the other side of the Taiwan Straits."

The fact that Taiwan would not be applying for membership under its official name should not be seen as an aggressive move, according to Gary Schmitt, a resident scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, a neoconservative think tank based in Washington.

"Plenty of states do not use their official names," he said. "These include China, Greece and Macedonia."

Chen stressed Taiwan's pragmatism and reasonableness in the approach it is taking. Taiwan's abandonment of its official name, the Republic of China, with respect to its application for UN membership is a bow to political reality, he argued.

"We understand well that the political term Republic of China was designed to deny the legality of the government of the People's Republic of China," he said. "We are not applying to rejoin the United Nations" and threaten the PRC seat, "but as a new member state. This shows that Taiwan is pragmatic and responsible in its desire to be accepted by the world community. Applying for UN membership has never been seen as a provocative act except in the case of Taiwan."

Refocusing on East Asia

Other experts agree with Chen's perception that the US is neglecting its relationships in East Asia. Some blame this on its preoccupation with Iraq.

"The US needs to rebalance its portfolio and refocus on Asia," said Kurt Campbell, chief executive of the Center for a New American Security, a Washington-based policy advocacy group. "Most important dialogs involving Asia are going on with the US seat empty."

Campbell believes the US owes Taiwan a debt of gratitude for its help in the Afghanistan and Iraq conflicts and called on Congress to play a more active roll in shaping policy in East Asia.

Chen is also pinning some of his hopes on the Democratic Congress. "Congress should step up and play a proper role," he said. "For decades, Taiwan has been a loyal and obedient partner of the United States. Now we are left to ask what went wrong."

Other observers reflected Chen's frustrated attitude. "There is an increasingly negative tone in the bilateral dialog," said Michael Green, a professor of international relations at Georgetown University in Washington. "The US needs to recognize that this is a fundamental issue of identity for Taiwan and not a tactical move. The issue of national identity is at the top of the agenda in every country in Asia."

Green added that negotiating a US-Taiwan free trade agreement could help clarify the relationship between the two countries. "Taiwan has an interest in locking itself into the broader Asia trade architecture," he said.

Taiwan could be admitted to the UN as a "functionally competent entity" rather than as a sovereign state, according to Vincent Wang, an associate professor of political science at the University of Richmond in Virginia.

"In this era of globalization, functional competency is replacing the notion of sovereignty," he contended. "Acceptance of Taiwan's United Nations application would involve decoupling Taiwan as a governmental organization from diplomatic recognition."

It would also take an amendment to the UN charter, Wang noted.

Chen's appeal to the US and the world community also emphasized that the government of the People's Republic may also be working to change the status quo across the Taiwan straits.

"The People's Republic of China has not renounced the use of force," Chen argued. "It has deployed ballistic missiles on its southeast coast aimed at Taiwan. There are currently 988 missiles and they are increasing at over 100 per year."

Chen also claimed the People's Liberation Army had a three-stage military plan for war against Taiwan, which included establishing a combat capability by the end of this year, a large-scale military engagement by 2010, and victory by 2015.

Chen acknowledged that Taiwan was unlikely to succeed in attaining UN membership without the support of the US. He noted that the current Bush administration was considering the sale of F-16C/D fighter aircraft to Taiwan and held out the hope that the eventual approval of that sale-perhaps at the tail end of the Bush administration-might also be accompanied by a diplomatic shift.

More likely, however, Chen will have to pin his hopes on the next US administration for any substantial change in the US diplomatic stance with respect to Taiwan.


Post a New Response

(246015)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Even if Bush and the Neo-hawks tried, there ain't much stopping Taiwan and China from going at it.

Sooner or later the "Republic of China" will decide to go it alone, particularly once they fully figure out (if they haven't done so already, as their UN seat bid may evidence) that their giant unfriendly neighbors have their key ally by its nuts - and that their key ally is bogged down half a world away with almost no hope of extracting itself.

And besides, word on the street is that Admiral Fallon (who apparently has the foreign policy idea of accommodating PRC's interests if given the chance) is at odds with General Petraeus (who is accommodating the interests of the neo-hawks, so much so that he merely read out the "report back" that the White House extensively edited.) So for the "Republic of China," there isn't much to pin its hopes on when it comes to the US military and who's foreign policy idea will win.

Post a New Response

(246019)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 03:13:48 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Hong Kong is Xianggang, not Xianggong.

Post a New Response

(246022)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 03:44:54 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Ding! :(

We're also trying to get the two Koreas dating again. "One World Government" was once the province of nutcakes ... but it's QUITE obvious that the nutcakes are now IN CHARGE. :(

Post a New Response

(246023)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:50:24 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 03:44:54 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
We're also trying to get the two Koreas dating again

Nah; they're doing that all on their own.

"One World Government" was once the province of nutcakes ... but it's QUITE obvious that the nutcakes are now IN CHARGE

FTR, Red China was always about that. They hold to the belief that communism can't work properly until all nations all over the globe embrace it. (That's right out of the Manifesto, too.)

Post a New Response

(246024)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 03:13:48 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Semantics. It's Hong Kong.

Post a New Response

(246025)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:53:18 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 02:45:43 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Even if Bush and the Neo-hawks tried

The point is, of course, that they never "tried" and they are in fact pushing Red China's agenda along stronger than ever. You know why, right?

Post a New Response

(246031)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 05:29:37 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:50:24 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Geez, buddy ... please go into "Chronological" mode in prefs here, and read my comments about "NY TIMES liberal" whatever around the message you replied to. Lemme go "protestant" for a sec ... and a recent popular ChrisCraft/ChrisSheen" satirical/misquote kinda song ... "spin spin spin is what you're living in" ...

SOUTH Korea has had its funding cut since 2001 to "nothing" and face it, KIA's are not selling well and SAMSUNG and HYUNDAI (Sun Myung Moon, Washington Times) are not selling well here lately. THEY have no choice but to do what every OTHER nation we've abandoned (including Chavezland) which have *CHEAP OIL* (gee, WHY are we pissing off every nation with oil and paying $3+ a gallon? Damned LIBERALS!) So they *KNOW* (like every OTHER nation on the planet) that the UNITED STATES says "phuck you!" What CHOICE do they have? HELL ... *WE* even phucked ISRAEL! (Lebanon) Why? Iraq. :(

*WE* phucked Israel with the most massive high hard one that we've given ANYONE! And I stand amused at how many of the (ahem) "Jewish persuasion" actually come HERE and have the chutzpah to SUPPORT Bush and his "Pax AMERICANA party!" Jeez ... KKK not enough? :-\

Republicans have (for the past 20 years) offered "black Helicopters," "UN Blue helmets goose-stepping up CPW" and other nonsense. I remember when Reagan, and Daddy Bush were in power. "Militias" were the RAGE in America when GOP held power. Guns, mortars, tanks a lot. Heh. Why is it that "one world government" or as spun by FOX, "spreading democracy in the Middle East" is a republican thing?

Sorry ... the dichotomy is ... well ... errrr ... "chewy." Ptoo. :(



Post a New Response

(246033)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 05:58:06 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 05:29:37 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Guess where we learned all that from.

Post a New Response

(246034)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 06:17:29 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 05:58:06 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Duh. :(

And yet Faux Nooze calls us the "L-word." Sorry, Freikorps just doesn't do it for me. TOO Falwell. :(

Post a New Response

(246046)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 09:25:19 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Sorry, Taiwan is lost. Not muslum. We're too busy trying to get a Kosovo for some reason and a "palestine" while ignoring Taiwan and Kurdistan.

Even without that, China has the votes. They bought 75% of Africa, have some of the mid-east, and a few in Latin America. America is one vote. The AU and OIC outvotes everyone.

Post a New Response

(246051)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:34:47 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
OK. So Olog-Hai is really Olleg-No. It's just semantics.

Post a New Response

(246052)

view threaded

Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
For decades, Taiwan has prospered under a veil of ambiguity. This has minimized the mainland's saber-rattling while allowing Taiwan's economy to boom.

The US does not want to encourage the hawks in Beijing's government to get into a direct shooting war. Taiwan's membership in the UN would brinmg it some benefits, but it isn't critical. It's not going to help Taipei do much it doesn't already do, and it will put Uncle Sam on the hook to defend the island.

If the Chinese assumed an overt attack posture, the US Seventh Fleet would have to enter the Taiwan Straits. I'm fine with that in an extreme emergency, but Taiwan's entry to the UN doesn't qualify as an extreme need.

US Administrations are looking to the future (neither Republicans no Democrats have encouraged Taiwan to officially declare independence) where, hopefully, the legislators in Beijing will be replaced by people with no stake in Taiwan. It happened in Russia: When Gorbachev replaced a long line of apparachiks like Brezhniev and Chernienko, the Warsaw Pact and Soviet Union entered their "terminal phase." And NATO did not have to fire a single shot.

Post a New Response

(246072)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Parkchester (East 177th St) on Fri Sep 14 11:56:02 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:53:18 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Those are the "nuts" I was referring to.

Post a New Response

(246080)

view threaded

Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good

Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 12:24:27 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
FWIW, as I don't follow the Taiwan story though I've always liked the China story, China has the votes in the UN for anything I suspect. Second, the UN seems pretty void since China just signed a massive deal with Iran today, or recently:
Iran's interior minister said Friday his country has finalized oil and gas projects with China, adding that two-way trade was on target to hit US$20 billion (€14.4 billion) this year among robust commercial ties.

They don't care about the UN, sanctions, or human rights. Who has been propping up Sudan all these years, vetoing every bill against Sudan since 1997 until just the last two years? China.

And third. I assume it depends on their image. Will China give something up because it's not worth it, or will they keep going at it to maintain a rising power image in the world?
Anyone see those stories last week about the largest attack on Pentagon Computers ever, originating from the Red Army? Since reading that one, I swear I read something about China not relying on computers as much as other countries for their military.

Chinese military hackers have prepared a detailed plan to disable America’s aircraft battle carrier fleet with a devastating cyber attack, according to a Pentagon report obtained by The Times.

The blueprint for such an assault, drawn up by two hackers working for the People’s Liberation Army (PLA), is part of an aggressive push by Beijing to achieve “electronic dominance” over each of its global rivals by 2050, particularly the US, Britain, Russia and South Korea.

China’s ambitions extend to crippling an enemy’s financial, military and communications capabilities early in a conflict, according to military documents and generals’ speeches that are being analysed by US intelligence officials. Describing what is in effect a new arms race, a Pentagon assessment states that China’s military regards offensive computer operations as “critical to seize the initiative” in the first stage of a war.

Though that deserves it's own thread.

I don't know if they'd do another Korea, and Status Quo may work, but I'm not so sure they're going to give it up.

Post a New Response

(246082)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 12:36:54 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 03:51:07 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
"Gong" and "gang" are two different words. It's like calling New York "New Yark."

Post a New Response

(246084)

view threaded

Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 12:53:00 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 12:24:27 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Chinese hackers will not disable aircrafdt carrier battle groups. That's just fluff circulated for consumption so right-wing nuts will panic.

Post a New Response

(246085)

view threaded

Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good

Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 13:05:35 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 12:53:00 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
They've been working on cyber warfare since Clinton.

The great thing about Computers is:
Nothings impossible

no matter how hard or improbable. Though I'd guess it gets harder everyyear to do what guys currently in jail for have done.

Post a New Response

(246101)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:37:28 2007, in response to Re: USA being sensible with Taiwan; ambiguity is good, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:42:51 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
You some kind of commie? You just said that it's OK for the USA to be Peking's bitch and to go back on all promises made to Taiwan. Everything you said is utter BS.

Post a New Response

(246102)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:38:15 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 10:34:47 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
You're confused, as usual.

Post a New Response

(246103)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:40:01 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by The Port of Authority on Fri Sep 14 12:36:54 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
You're a little too deep into this.

Hanyu Pinyin is communist-approved. Reject it.

Post a New Response

(246104)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 15:40:15 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:37:28 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
You dream about the US and China going to war so you can go up in a blaze of glory.

Post a New Response

(246106)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:41:22 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Fri Sep 14 15:40:15 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
You dream of Red China taking over the US. You don't think we can beat them?

Post a New Response

(246132)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Sep 14 17:59:32 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 15:41:22 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's up to wal-mart.

Just look at Bentonville. It's as Chinese as Africa is.

Post a New Response

(246141)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 18:29:47 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Sep 14 09:25:19 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah in the Un, w/China they won't allow Taiwan have a seat in the UN I think. And I wonder if the US is stretched too thin to send one aircraft carrier to China to protect Taiwan. Especially as how all China has to do is liquidate its ownership of US debt and plunge us into bankruptcy. or i'm just over thinking this fear

Post a New Response

(246176)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 19:58:46 2007, in response to USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Sep 14 02:22:33 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Read the history of taiwan. When the Nationalists fled the communists in 1948, they settled on the island of Formosa. The native Formosans were immediately KILLED.

FUCK TAIWAN.

Post a New Response

(246178)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 19:58:46 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Real mature of you. And staying behind in china to get slaughtered would've been better

Post a New Response

(246183)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by BIE on Fri Sep 14 20:17:35 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
I repeat, FUCK TAIWAN. We owe them NOTHING. Besides, if you believe the freidmanists, China is our friend.

Post a New Response

(246184)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 20:17:37 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 20:06:52 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Might I suggest a read here:

http://www.taiwandc.org/228-intr.htm

Despite BIE's phrasing, when Chiang Kai-shecky's people escaped to what is now Taiwan, tens of thousands of natives were murdered by the new inhabitants. He is absolutely correct about the events of February 28, 1947 ... more here:

http://cinemaspace.berkeley.edu/Papers/CityOfSadness/thread.html

Sorry for it being Berkeley, but they archived the usenet threads which contain a lot more detail ...

Post a New Response

(246206)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Fri Sep 14 23:15:09 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by Grand concourse on Fri Sep 14 18:29:47 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
That's what happens when one group stops thinking ahead more than 4 years, and the other thinks ahead to infinity.

Post a New Response

(246217)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 15 00:24:58 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Sep 14 20:17:37 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
Has Taiwan come to terms with this?

Post a New Response

(246219)

view threaded

Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Sep 15 00:36:36 2007, in response to Re: USA stabbing Taiwan over UN seat?, posted by RonInBayside on Sat Sep 15 00:24:58 2007.

edf40wrjww2msgDetailOT:detailStr
fiogf49gjkf0d
It is now commemorated as "Peace Memorial Day" ... more here:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/228_Incident

Post a New Response


[ Return to the Message Index ]