Home  Maps  About

Home > OTChat

[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]

[1 2 3 4 5]

< Previous Page  

Page 2 of 5

Next Page >  

(241448)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:35:59 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:31:23 2007.

That depends on which poll you consult. A majority of American citizens (70% or so) identify with a Christian denomination of one sort or another, but that is not the same as what you just said.

(241449)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:36:14 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by BIE on Sun Aug 26 23:33:45 2007.


Jesus was not the son of God, he did not die and get resurrected (unless my theory about how Battlestar Galactica should conclude ends up coming true).

(241450)

view threaded

Re: skool prare

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:36:28 2007, in response to Re: skool prare, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:35:15 2007.

Foxtrot Oscar . . .

(241451)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:36:30 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:17:20 2007.

'G-d made and then he let things evolve afterward.'

don't you mean She?

(241453)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:38:07 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:33:11 2007.


Um, no. Believe in Jesus? Fine. If it gets you through the day and makes you a better person, more power to you.

(241454)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:38:21 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:30:00 2007.

that's what the minority of those that don't believe in Jesus say to themselves to rationalize their position

False. If you don't understand the problem, don't make guesses about it. Learn about the problem of Mammon-worship.

(241458)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:38:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:17:20 2007.

No, that's untrue. Read your Tanakh.

(241460)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:39:23 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:27:16 2007.

That is a very compatible description

With what?

The scholars of the Bible believed God started the evolutionary process

Identify these "scholars".

(241461)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:39:29 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:36:14 2007.

??

(241462)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:39:47 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:36:30 2007.

No, he doesn't.

(241463)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:39:52 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:36:30 2007.

How about It?

(241464)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:40:19 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:39:47 2007.

don't you mean she doesn't

(241465)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 26 23:41:01 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:17:20 2007.

*G-d made and then he let things evolve afterward. *

Sounds like Intelligent Design, the ONLY time I heard it given coherently where it had some logic to it. I don't think most of the people who currently preach "intelligent design" know what they're supposed to be preaching hearing the other versions of it.

(241466)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:41:15 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:38:07 2007.

I wasn't asking whether you believe in Jesus. I was asking whether you had a problem with coexisting with people who do.

I have no problem coexisting with them. The Constitution protects your right to believe in that.

(241471)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:43:37 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:38:49 2007.

Nope, it's true.

I already done did read the Tanach. But if you think I missed a page or two, feel free to give me a reference.

(241473)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Terrapin Station on Sun Aug 26 23:45:05 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 26 23:41:01 2007.

Well it's the truth. G-d started it all and then let things continue on their own.

(241474)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:45:11 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by orange blossom special on Sun Aug 26 23:41:01 2007.

Intelligent Design denies most of evolution. Intelligent Design insists that certain structures are irreducible (that idea proven false, by the way).

(241476)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:46:05 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:39:23 2007.

Read them for yourself. You have the Bible at home, do you not?

(241482)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:50:57 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:46:05 2007.

I've read them over and over. Your fiction is not present there.

(241487)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 00:11:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:50:57 2007.

My fiction is not. But the first description of evolution is.

(241488)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by orange blossom special on Mon Aug 27 00:19:52 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 23:45:11 2007.

The first time I heard it, and the only coherant time I heard it, was on one of the thousands of GA radio channels of course, since that's all there is, and he used the analogy. Which I will completely butcher:

A carpenter uses wood to make a table. He didn't make the tree, nor did the tree make the table. The tree came into being, and it was then changed into something else.
But the root object of the material, wood, was god, and everything else took it's turn.

Sorry, that was horrible, but it was the premise. The atoms, and elements and all were artificial, but they bind on their own to do their thing.

Pretty much like what started the big bang. Doesn't mean anyone micromanaged every little detail and event in your life. Vague enough that it's not totally preposterous like regular creationism that's preached. Doesn't change anything or evolution in my book either.

(241490)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 00:32:57 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by orange blossom special on Mon Aug 27 00:19:52 2007.

Intelligent Design is preposterous in every way - and dishonest.



(241492)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Mon Aug 27 01:05:20 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 00:32:57 2007.

It's a good cop out. Full of what if's that can't be proven or disproven at all.

Fuffy with air, and completely undebatable.

(241495)

view threaded

Re: skool prare

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 03:08:36 2007, in response to Re: skool prare, posted by monorail on Sun Aug 26 23:35:15 2007.

Nice to see my favorite, yet generally underrated letter is getting some attention here.

(241496)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 03:10:25 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 22:30:12 2007.

I agree, I remember being made fun of in school for being an atheist and looking at the scientific side of things rather than the religious side.

(241498)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 27 07:35:29 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:31:23 2007.

3 in 4 Americans believe Jesus was the son of God, and that he died on the Cross and was resurrected.

That doesn't make someone a Jesus freak in the usual way the term is used. My understanding of the term is that it means someone who believes the above and is pushy about it, i.e., makes sure you know what he believes and thinks you should believe it too.





(241507)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:49:18 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 19:16:49 2007.

""the media and the culture not mentioning God. They don't see it as an important issue - the national religion is "we don't care".

Actually, your national religion is the Church of England, and it is alive and well and on public display every day."

the CofE is dead - it died years ago (see my next post for details as to why). parts of it are alive, but most of it is dying a death. Probably only about 10% of CofE churches hold to the 39 articles that form it's beliefs, and about 50% of them still just go through the motions, rather than engaging with their beliefs. Funnily enough the ones that believe and live out those 39 articles are the places where the church is still strong and growing, however the Church and State try their best to silence them and ignore them. CofE is the offical religion, but definitely not the de facto one, which is "we don't care".

"What ban? There's no ban on religion. There's a ban on using public money to proselytize a particular religion in public school because people not sharing that religion paid for the school too. Thus, the school is neutral ground where any person can feel safe."
Yet that ban on looking at religion, examining the evidence for and against is causing the proselytizing of people to a religion, namely that of atheism, as shown in my previous post.

"You as individual can believe anything you like."
You just can't openly act on those beliefs if you are a public servant, like a judge or a teacher. Hardly freedom, is it?

"False statement. The effect is to stigmatize people who do not participate and make them second class citizens."
Allowing is different to making mandatory. Anyway, surely the ban on studying God and religion in schools is to treat people who feel that that is the most important thing as second class citizens - it's saying "you are wrong, God's not important" constantly to them. They know otherwise, but they are still treated as if their views don't matter. The effect of the ban is that people who want to participate are treated as if their views are wrong, and that they are second class citizens. It's, as I have said, a catch-22 situation.

Ad when you prove that there is one, we'll study it (it's not a provable or disprovable thing). As of now, it's purely a conjectural thing. If you choose to believe there is one, by all means believe in it. Public schools do not teach that there is or isn't one - you're free to believe as you like."
However, public schools, by their sidestepping of the whole issue accidentally imply that there isn't. As for proof, look up the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus Christ - the evidence is fairly conclusive that he did - definitely beyond reasonable doubt. Also it is possible to prove there is a God, however it isn't possible to prove there isn't one, in the same way that it's possible to prove that there is live on other planets, but it's impossible to disprove that. We've had contact - God's sent us the proof: Jesus - it's up to you whether to dogmatically ignore the evidence as it doesn't fit in with your misconceptions or not.

"If you want the schools to teach that there is one, you're free to enroll in a private religious school."
Though the only private religious schools in my country are for religions I don't belive are in anyway true, so I won't. The state run ones are worse - they try so hard not to offend anyone by being church schools that they end up teaching that Christianity is wrong and ever other view is right, in order to try not to offend. The non-church state schools are funnily enough the best place to get a religious education, and that's only because it's properly neutral. It teaches religion, but is neutral as to which one is right. That's how it should be in the state system (other than it really ought to examine truth claims a bit better, rather than skipping over evidence in some cases, for instance, when teaching about Islam - it's taught that due to one bit in the Qu'ran, Neil Armstrong became a Muslim when he saw a rift valley on the moon. This story has been completely debunked by Neil himself.)

(241508)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:51:59 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Sun Aug 26 23:31:23 2007.

funnily enough, that's more than clergy in the Church of England!

it's ironic really - having a state religion, because the focus becomes on the state, not the religion bit, watering it down, making it politically correct, not going to offend anyone.

If the CofE was allowed to govern themselves, it would be as bad though, not least because we have a druid in charge. The Archbishop of York is thankfully reasonably decent, if a bit tied by his role at times. However the dominance of people who go to Church, become ministers in the church, etc, who do not believe, but go because it's English, it's tradition, etc would mean that the church will remain corrupted by nominalism, liberalism and general unbelief. Then again, maybe people will notice that the churches that are led by non-believers have dropping congregations, whereas those who are teaching God's word and not just some wishy-washy "be nice because it's nice" are the ones that have growing churches, thriving congregations, and the money to support the other, failing, excuses for churches. The politics interfering with the church has got us to a state where the leaders are mostly unconfrontational people who don't believe the Bible, or the 39 articles, or anything much, for politics sake. Sadly it will be very hard to get out of that (especially if the state ties remain).

(241514)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 09:39:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 03:10:25 2007.

There was a time when I thought of myself as an atheist. My Dad's generation (the Haganah and first wave of Zionists in Israel) were atheists, basically.

As an adult I'm agnostic - I do not deny the existence of a "God" becauseI cannot disprove the concept. But I don't realy believe it personally. So I live my life not worrying about whether there is, or isn't one. It doesn't matter to me.

(241516)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 10:15:34 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:49:18 2007.

"Probably only about 10% of CofE churches hold to the 39 articles that form it's beliefs, and about 50% of them still just go through the motions, rather than engaging with their beliefs."

So it doesn't serve part of the congregation well. Those dissatisfied will vote with their feet and find something else.

"Funnily enough the ones that believe and live out those 39 articles are the places where the church is still strong and growing, however the Church and State try their best to silence them and ignore them."

Maybe it's the other way around.

"CofE is the offical religion, but definitely not the de facto one,"

It's not supposed to be.

"Yet that ban on looking at religion, examining the evidence for and against is causing the proselytizing of people to a religion, namely that of atheism"

False. Just the opposite. It is that ban which empowers everyone to examine religion to his/her personal content, without interference from the State. However, the bigots and religious supremacists who believe that "democracy" means the freedom to impose "their" religion, and lack the social skills to get along with people who do not believe as they do, feel threatened by democracy. Perhaps you are in that group. It sounds like it.

"You just can't openly act on those beliefs if you are a public servant, like a judge or a teacher."

Correct. As a public servant your responsibility is to serve the public. If, as a judge, you decide cases based on your personal religious belief then you might as well be in Saudi Arabia or running around with the Taliban, because that's what they do. It's not what democracies do.

"Anyway, surely the ban on studying God and religion in schools"

What ban? Schools offer comparative religion courses. You're free to take them. You can then take philosophy courses to examine the interplay of religious ideas and philosophical ideas.

"They know otherwise, but they are still treated as if their views don't matter"

False. They are taught that there is a time and place for everything, and that organized prayer of one denomination sanctioned by tax-supported public schools is disrespectful of other people's beliefs, who also attend the schools.

The last time I checked, there were no courses in schools which demanded a belief in atheism. Not evebn science classes.


"However, public schools, by their sidestepping of the whole issue accidentally imply that there isn't. "

False. As I said before, there is a time and place for it.

"As for proof, look up the historicity of the resurrection of Jesus Christ - the evidence is fairly conclusive that he did - definitely beyond reasonable doubt"

False statement. There is no scientific or physical proof. There is a religious belief that he did so, and you are entitled to it. Jews do not believe it, nor do Muslims. The resurrection is the core of Chistian mythology, just as Moses' receiving the 10 commandments from God is core to the Jewish mythology.

You are confusing belief in god with belief in a Christian God and belief in Jesus. Your statement communicates the arrogance and tyranny that Christian supremacists convey to "non-believers."

"Also it is possible to prove there is a God,"

False statement. It is possible to believe in one, but not to prove its existence. Anything relying on faith and circular reasoning necessarily falls into this category.




(241531)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 11:42:49 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 09:39:49 2007.

The only reason I worry about it is because if there is such thing as hell and an afterlife, I don't want to spend my afterlife in hell. My friends also believe in reincarnation, though I don't really get the point of that whole theory.

(241532)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 11:49:58 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 19:16:49 2007.

"the media and the culture not mentioning God. They don't see it as an important issue - the national religion is "we don't care".

Actually, your national religion is the Church of England, and it is alive and well and on public display every day.


That's not really a recognizable picture. If it were, disestablishmentarianism would still be politically significant.

(241533)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about Religion in England

Posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 11:54:57 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 10:15:34 2007.

"Probably only about 10% of CofE churches hold to the 39 articles that form it's beliefs, and about 50% of them still just go through the motions, rather than engaging with their beliefs."

So it doesn't serve part of the congregation well. Those dissatisfied will vote with their feet and find something else."

Partially - the not bothered nature of those who are dissatisfied mean that they don't go somewhere else, they just don't go, and reject what they know of the teachings of the CofE church, even though that wasn't the teachings that they left. A lot of people moved to Catholicism, or different protestant denominations. Others just stop going and put Christian on their census form, even though they just do weddings and funerals.

""Funnily enough the ones that believe and live out those 39 articles are the places where the church is still strong and growing, however the Church and State try their best to silence them and ignore them."

Maybe it's the other way around.
"
Nope, it definitely is that the Church and State want to stifle these Churches, but the Church knows that it can't get rid of them, as they'd lose their credibility - I know of several churches where the church establishment dislikes them, but only keeps them in the CofE (even though these churches hold to the rules of the church) as they need the money to support the failing liberal churches. The state tries to stop these churches.

One example is Greyfriars, Reading which, thankfully, managed to stop the deliberate putting of a very liberal Bishop in Reading (which would have meant all sorts of attempts to stop Greyfriars preaching it's message - the message that the CofE exists to proclaim), by the state and church authorities. I think they threatened to leave the CofE, and therefore the CofE wouldn't have this nice big church to subsidise other 'churches'.

Another attempt, indirectly, was the Religious and Racial Hatred bill, which the Evangelical Alliance (which includes many of these CofE churches that actually are CofE, rather than just old buildings where someone in a robe reads out a book, with a couple of people responding in the right places, but none of them caring what they are saying) and non-religious groups failed to get passed in it's Labour manifesto form. The CofE leaders supported it, even though it had the possibility of making it illegal to publically state the 39 articles and say that they were true. The watered down version took just 30 minutes to draft, and basically removed the bits that would make religious conservativeness, in any form, possibly illegal. The form of the original was so badly thought out, that it's unlikely to have been malicious, but even so.

However despite these 2 victories, Church rules and State laws are still, sometimes deliberately, trying to stifle conservative churches from having a say.

""CofE is the offical religion, but definitely not the de facto one,"

It's not supposed to be."

the de facto official religion of the UK is "don't care", it is clearly supposed to be the Church of England, but it isn't. Clearly there's no point in having an official religion if officials don't apply it anywhere and legislation is trying to stop them applying it, in the very few cases that do.

It seems that I overestimated the extent of the church-state divide in America, treating it as being like the one in France. I'm sorry for that, however you seem to have misunderstood the situation on this side of the pond as well.

(241534)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by AlM on Mon Aug 27 11:57:34 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 11:42:49 2007.

The only reason I worry about it is because if there is such thing as hell and an afterlife, I don't want to spend my afterlife in hell.

Some cynical guy pointed this out a long time ago. If you believe in an afterlife and are wrong, you'll never find out.

But if you don't believe in an afterlife and are wrong, you might be seriously sorry.

So the safe thing to do is believe in an afterlife.



(241535)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:03:38 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:49:18 2007.

Though the only private religious schools in my country are for religions I don't belive are in anyway true, so I won't. The state run ones are worse - they try so hard not to offend anyone by being church schools that they end up teaching that Christianity is wrong and ever other view is right, in order to try not to offend. The non-church state schools are funnily enough the best place to get a religious education, and that's only because it's properly neutral. It teaches religion, but is neutral as to which one is right.

You've missed out the private non-religious schools. These tend to be of some antiquity and have bizarre vestiges of when Anglicanism was institutionalized. Mine still combined the posts of Chaplain and Head of Religious Studies for instance (which in practice meant very little, as the Chaplain was a liberal Anglican who was interested in Islam).

(241537)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about Religion in England

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:09:09 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about Religion in England, posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 11:54:57 2007.

the de facto official religion of the UK is "don't care", it is clearly supposed to be the Church of England, but it isn't.

What's really weird is how much of this change has happened in the last 20 years. There seems to have been some point in the 1990s when it changed over, but I can't pinpoint it.

(241542)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:38:43 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:51:59 2007.

funnily enough, that's more than clergy in the Church of England!

Well, the old joke is that there are two groups of clergy in the CofE -- those who don't believe in God, and those who don't believe in the Queen; and the latter is fatal for promotion prospects.

The Archbishop of York is thankfully reasonably decent, if a bit tied by his role at times.

The previous one was better.

(241545)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:43:18 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 27 11:57:34 2007.

Some cynical guy pointed this out a long time ago. If you believe in an afterlife and are wrong, you'll never find out.

But if you don't believe in an afterlife and are wrong, you might be seriously sorry.

So the safe thing to do is believe in an afterlife.


Pascal's Wager -- of course, it has its flaws...

(241549)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:45:57 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:39:23 2007.

"The scholars of the Bible believed God started the evolutionary process"

Identify these "scholars".


At least accuse them of being deists...

(241554)

view threaded

Re: nonsense

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:49:01 2007, in response to Re: nonsense, posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 00:32:57 2007.

Intelligent Design is preposterous in every way - and dishonest.

Well, it's vaguely coherent so long as you want to believe in a God who enjoys fabricating frauds and red herrings. And if people can believe in Loki, then who are we to laugh at their faith?

(241556)

view threaded

Re: skool prare

Posted by monorail on Mon Aug 27 12:50:04 2007, in response to Re: skool prare, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Aug 27 03:08:36 2007.

'is getting some attention here'

ten hut!!!!

(241558)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by monorail on Mon Aug 27 12:51:39 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 27 11:57:34 2007.


'So the safe thing to do is believe in an afterlife.'


do you believe in the afterbirth?

(241560)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 27 12:53:18 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by soton si on Mon Aug 27 08:51:59 2007.


The whole concept of a state religion, even one where participation is not mandatory for the population, is bad.

(241561)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:53:56 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by RonInBayside on Sun Aug 26 11:14:58 2007.

The myth, though, is that by not offering religion in schools you are somehow indoctrinating poeople in atheismm.

Well, it all depends whether you just chuck the religion or replace it with irreligion.

(241562)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 27 12:59:21 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Aug 26 23:38:21 2007.


I understand the problem quite well, being a non-Christian on both a predominantly Christian nation (and even a Christian household). I don't feel threatened by nativities on government property. Neither would I if my son went to a public school and recited a prayer every morning. Every morning for 12 years I recited the Pledge of Allegience, said "under God" and had no problem with it.

(241563)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 27 13:01:00 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Sun Aug 26 22:58:09 2007.


Most polling proves that assertion wrong. We are a nation of believing Christians. It's just the way things are.

(241564)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 27 13:03:04 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:53:56 2007.


Atheism IS a religion, since it puts forth a doctrine as equally inflexible as any other faith. I think it is as foolish to believe there is no God than it is to believe the son of a carpenter and a Jewish teenaged girl was the son of God.

(241565)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 13:04:38 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by AlM on Mon Aug 27 11:57:34 2007.

LOL!

(241566)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 13:04:55 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Mon Aug 27 12:53:18 2007.

The whole concept of a state religion, even one where participation is not mandatory for the population, is bad.

I agree in as much as, if we were starting again with an English constitution, I would oppose its inclusion. But that's not how England works -- we only get horrendously time-consuming piecemeal legislation (and that has pros as well as cons). Any religious bill is going to take even more time, as it would be treated as a matter of conscience, so it wouldn't be possible to expedite it through Parliament in any way at all. So we get to its importance: with the CofE already essentially irrelevant, its disestablishment is of virtually no importance to the state. Parliament has better things to do than wasting its time on highly time-consuming bills of little importance -- in practice, it usually can't even adequately deal with the government's manifesto commitments.

(241567)

view threaded

Re: nonsense about atheism

Posted by RonInBayside on Mon Aug 27 13:05:29 2007, in response to Re: nonsense about atheism, posted by Rail Blue on Mon Aug 27 12:43:18 2007.

Very cute.

[1 2 3 4 5]

< Previous Page  

Page 2 of 5

Next Page >  


[ Return to the Message Index ]