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Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007

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Atlanta Journal-Constitution

This is just sick. And they still insist they didn't starve the baby? and dare to even appeal? Monstrous.

Murder verdict for vegan parents

By BETH WARREN
The Atlanta Journal-Constitution
Published on: 05/03/07

A vegan couple committed murder when they didn't make sure their newborn received proper nutrition, a Fulton jury decided Wednesday.

The courtroom was so quiet after the judge read the verdict — the first of its kind in Georgia — that the clank of the handcuffs being fastened around the parents' wrists echoed through the room.


Jade Sanders



Lamont Thomas

The father, Lamont Thomas, 31, then called out "We're going to jail for no reason" as his girlfriend, Jade Sanders, 27, stared ahead, visibly stunned.

Thomas told visiting Senior Superior Court Judge L.A. McConnell that he and Sanders were proud of their first child, naming him Crown. "We didn't starve our son for weeks and weeks," the dad said before deputies led him out of the courtroom.

The verdicts mean the couple will receive automatic life sentences. The judge might tack on more prison time at a sentencing hearing next week.

After hearing the verdicts, Sanders' and Thomas' mothers sat silently, wiping at tears. They remembered a grandson who smiled and laughed and didn't cry any more than any other child, said Thomas' attorney, Brandon Lewis.

Lewis turned to the defendants' moms and vowed to appeal: "I want you to remember, it's far from being over."

The infant was born in the bathtub of a Buckhead apartment but never taken to a doctor while alive. He was dead when his parents took him to Piedmont Hospital, across the street from their apartment, April 25, 2004. At six weeks old he weighed just 3 1/2 pounds and was so emaciated, doctors could count his bones through his skin.

Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield.

In similar cases, a New York jury convicted a vegan couple on murder charges in the death of their child, but a Florida jury was more lenient, acquitting vegan parents of murder and instead convicting them on reduced charges of involuntary manslaughter, an unintentional death. In that case, the couple had successfully raised two children as vegans, but their third child died.

"The vegan diet is fine," Boring said after the verdict in the Georgia case. "These parents lied about what they fed him. He just was not fed enough."

The mother initially told police she fed her baby organic apple juice and soy milk. But the soy milk containers in her apartment clearly state that soy milk is not to be used as a substitute for baby formula, her lawyer admitted. At trial, the mom said she also fed her son breast milk and soy milk formula.

Outside the courtroom, Lewis, the defense attorney, said he believes the parents unintentionally starved their child by feeding him apple juice that may have acted as a diuretic and blocked the absorption of nutrients from the soy milk, soy formula and breast milk. They never took Crown to a doctor because they feared hospitals were infested with germs, he said.

At trial, government witness and vegan expert Amy Lanou told jurors the child's health may have been compromised by his diet, but he should still have been alive if fed enough food.

Lanou, a nutritionist who authored the book "Healthy Eating for Life for Children," on raising children as vegans, said all parents should know that babies need adequate amounts of breast milk or formula.

Prosecutors Boring and Mike Carlson convinced jurors that the neglect was intentional.

Boring said outside the courtroom that he'd always be haunted by the case. "I'll never understand 'Why?' " he said.

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(214170)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 18:39:52 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007.

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I would have found them guilty too. How stupid would you have to be to unintentionally let your baby waste away? It must have been intentional or neglect. There's probably more to this than what the parents and relatives are saying.

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(214172)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:53:25 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 18:39:52 2007.

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Definitely not neglect. The Vegan "lifestyle" is not viable for babies; heck, it's barely viable for adults.

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(214179)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007.

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This is tragic, but hardly murder. They are woefully ignorant about a baby's nutritional needs but they never set out to kill the baby. Where was the rest of the concerned community? They needed intervention before the baby died.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 20:00:28 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007.

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You have to be a first-class nitwit to feed a newborn infant apple juice. I have personally cared for the children of a mentally retarded mother who took pretty decent care of her child even not counting my advice.

The kid weighs 3.5 pounds at six weeks and you can count the bones? I don't blame the jury for convicting. This is a couple who either are depraved and indifferent of mind, in which case prison is appropriate, or so terminally stupid that they become the poster couple for involuntary sterilization.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 20:04:32 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 20:00:28 2007.

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Agreed. They were nitwits. They were morons. They were even salaam's equal but they were negligent. There was no criminal intent.

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(214186)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 20:15:35 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 20:04:32 2007.

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A baby being born and going backward (ie losing weight and becoming a skeleton) and they don't think to question anything?

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:30:58 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:53:25 2007.

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I don't believe that the Vegan lifestyle is what killed the baby. It was the neglect of the parents. They are using Vegan as an excuse after the fact.

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(214188)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 20:32:30 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007.

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This is tragic, but hardly murder

Come now. Not feeding a newborn things other than breast milk or formula is starvation. It's murder, all right. Several millenia of baby care, and we've degenerated to this?

(How far right are you trying to make me look, BTW?)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:33:10 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 20:04:32 2007.

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How do you know this? The jury found that there was. I assume that there's more to the story than what we are reading in this short article.

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(214190)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 20:34:17 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:30:58 2007.

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I don't believe that the Vegan lifestyle is what killed the baby. It was the neglect of the parents

. . . that neglect being starving the baby using a Vegan diet. The diet thereof is the "Vegan lifestyle".

They are using Vegan as an excuse after the fact

What excuse? It's the very thing that's condemning them.

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(214191)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:34:46 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 20:15:35 2007.

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Exactly. And their relatives don't slap them upside the head or notify authorities? There's something missing in this story...

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(214193)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:36:08 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 20:34:17 2007.

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Did you read the article that you posted?

Fulton prosecutor Chuck Boring said the verdict isn't a condemnation of veganism, a strict form of vegetarianism that doesn't allow the consumption or use of animal products. Instead, jurors believed prosecutors' assertions that the couple intentionally neglected and underfed the child and then tried to use the lifestyle as a shield.

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(214194)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Scrabbleship on Thu May 3 20:42:55 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 20:32:30 2007.

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I actually agree with you. That isn't tongue-in-cheek. that is the truth.

Newborns and toddlers have no business whatsoever being vegetarian or vegan, it's unsafe at those ages.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 21:04:50 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007.

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I agree with all points you made. This has to be a record.

your pal,
Fred

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(214199)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu May 3 21:05:15 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007.

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If "Vegan" diet means ingesting crack and heroin, yes I would say that these two were definitely "Vegans".

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 21:43:48 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 21:04:50 2007.

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Oye Vey

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(214202)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 21:46:52 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 20:32:30 2007.

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I'm not saying that their conduct wasn't negligent. They should have seen the baby not doing well. I just think that "MURDER" is excessive. Criminally negligent homocide? Manslaughter? Child endangerment? Maybe!!!!!!!!

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(214203)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 22:08:37 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 21:46:52 2007.

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There were other couples that tried this before, as well. They're following the "advice" of a self-styled Vegan "nutritionist", albeit not to the letter. Some newborns died; others were taken away from their parents and fed normal baby food.

I'd call someone who poisons a baby a murderer; I'm not so lenient. Anything besides breast milk or formula is poisonous to a baby.

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(214204)

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 22:10:01 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:36:08 2007.

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Judge Boring is not the be-all-and-end-all on the scourge of veganism. These people should be forced to eat animal flesh.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 23:04:01 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by LA Blue Line on Thu May 3 20:34:46 2007.

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Agreed

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by PATHman on Fri May 4 01:43:02 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007.

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Since they lacked malicious intent a manslaughter conviction would've been appropriate (I'm not condoning their actions. Some people aren't meant to be parents).

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:55:34 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 22:08:37 2007.

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Yes, we all know how you are. Jaywalking should carry jail time and the Code of Hammurabi should be made the law of the land :D

your pal,
Fred

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:39:50 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 21:43:48 2007.

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yu0=t3h l16

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:52:08 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Mr Mabstoa on Thu May 3 21:05:15 2007.

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Veganism produces malnutrition that causes similar appearance.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:54:08 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Fri May 4 03:55:34 2007.

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So you're saying that this doesn't go beyond mere "neglect"? How is it that for milennia, we've known that babies need milk to survive, and these people's attempt to circumvent nature is merely neglectful and not murderous?

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:55:14 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by PATHman on Fri May 4 01:43:02 2007.

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Since they lacked malicious intent

How is not feeding your baby milk a lack of malicious intent?

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:14:40 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 20:04:32 2007.

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Not negligent? Are you kidding? Not feeding your baby milk IS negligent. To try and force their sick notion on eating habits onto their developing child is not only cruel, but yes, murderous. ANyone with even a half of brain can realize a baby needs milk, and that 3 1/2 lbs is not even near what a baby should be.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:18:01 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fred G on Thu May 3 21:04:50 2007.

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Wow, and while I usually agree with a lot he says, this has to be so far from what I agree with that it's not even a glimmer of agreement on this one.
This was a sick couple, who killed their baby by forcing their twisted ideas of eating habits on an innocent baby.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:19:00 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:55:14 2007.

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How is not feeding your baby milk a lack of malicious intent?


Not only is it malicious intent....it's down right sick!

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:20:07 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 04:52:08 2007.

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Veganism causes an appearance probably even worse than crack use, and may even do the body worse.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri May 4 07:59:11 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Thu May 3 23:04:01 2007.

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My son and his wife are vegetarians. My son's wife's brother is a vegan. They explained the theory to me a long time ago.

I am a meat eater, but I still think that baby was given not enough or the wrong foods. Apparently they are a lot of vegan babies out there, Something went wrong here.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by JPC on Fri May 4 09:56:50 2007, in response to Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:23:43 2007.

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There's nothing inherently wrong with a vegan diet. Yes, it's hard to get certain B vitamins, and you can't get heme iron as well as a few other things, but if you're careful (and use vitamin supplementation as necessary) you can do quite well.

Babies, however, need a higher percentage of fat in their diet than adults do, for brain and nervous system development. I'm no expert, but I'd suspect a vegan diet isn't a good idea for an infant (even if it works with adults).

However, this has not a damn thing to do with veganism. It is about criminal neglect at the very least and perhaps premeditated murder.

The baby is born. Do they take it to the hospital or to see a doctor?

Further, the baby either is born at less than 3.5 lbs, or over time *loses* weight - do they take it to the doctor then?

Anybody who's ever seen a baby more than once knows how rapidly they increase in size the first few months. This one didn't do that. Did they take it to the doctor then?

Everybody knows babies have lots of cuddly "baby fat." This one didn't. Did they take it to the doctor then?

I'm also willing to bet there were plenty of other signs of malnutrition and/or dehydration - skin tenting, sunken eyes, swollen tongue, etc. - but the obvious signs above should be more than enough to convince even the most mentally challenged parent to take their kid to a doc.

Did they ever go to a doctor while the kid was still alive? No.

Even the stupidest parent in the world would realize something is wrong.

These parents intentionally killed their child. Either that or they are so mentally deficient that they probably should be institutionalized. Oh gee, I didn't know that stabbing that man repeatedly in the chest with an ice pick could hurt him. You mean throwing babies out a sixth story window isn't good for them? I thought old ladies liked it when I ran them down with my car.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 11:46:31 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri May 4 07:59:11 2007.

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Apparently they are a lot of vegan babies out there

No, there aren't. Those vegans are feeding their babies milk.

These people cut milk completely out of what they were putting into their baby.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Fytton on Fri May 4 11:53:18 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:14:40 2007.

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'Anyone with even a half of brain can realize a baby needs milk'

Yes. Breast milk - human milk. The vegan mother eats a vegan diet herself and breast-feeds her baby until it is old enough to cope with other foods.

According to the story, this couple supplemented the breast milk with soy milk that was labelled as 'not suitable for infants'. I believe soy-based infant formulas do exist, but they didn't get them.

I think this couple were highly eccentric and failed to care adequately for their baby, but I am not convinced from the article that murder was an appropriate verdict - I dont believe the **intention** to kill was there.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 11:59:25 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fytton on Fri May 4 11:53:18 2007.

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Then the defense should have been mental deficiency. How is it that for several thousand years we've known that what you feed a baby is milk, and these people amazingly did not know?

The verdict was accurate, and the defendants were defiant, claiming to be "going to jail for no reason" and that they "didn't starve (their) son for weeks and weeks"—and having the nerve to appeal the decision with such a mindset.

As for what these two fed their son, the claim of feeding breast milk is clearly perjurous. All they fed that kid was apple juice and soy milk, which is poisonous to a baby. They deliberately poisoned their baby to death.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 12:06:55 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fytton on Fri May 4 11:53:18 2007.

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Yes. Breast milk - human milk. The vegan mother eats a vegan diet herself and breast-feeds her baby until it is old enough to cope with other foods.


Yes, but these people didn't do that. They fed it "apple juice", which has no nutricianal value, and "soy" milk.

Intention or not, these people murdered their baby, as anyone with a brain knows that a newborn, much less an older baby should be only 3.5 lbs.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:13:43 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 3 19:33:12 2007.

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I don't care how ignorant they are, starvation is an involved process whose signs cannot be ignored.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:14:45 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:18:01 2007.

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Don't feel bad. I agree with you completely.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:16:04 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by PATHman on Fri May 4 01:43:02 2007.

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Nope, this is depraved indifference homicide, and if the legal advisors to Law & Order are worth the money they are paid, this can be considered 2nd degree murder.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:18:44 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 3 18:53:25 2007.

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Veganism is simply not natural. It's hard to maintain a proper nutritional balance when you have such limitations on what you can eat.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:21:13 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Fytton on Fri May 4 11:53:18 2007.

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There are several degrees of murder which require no intent. Felony murder doesn't even require the accused to be involved with the actual life-taking at all.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:23:36 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Scrabbleship on Thu May 3 20:42:55 2007.

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I find the idea that using cow's milk for a baby being considered cruel as idiotic as anything I've ever read before.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:13:50 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 11:46:31 2007.

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There are different levels of vegetarian. Some think eating milk and eggs is OK, some think eating fish is OK, and some are strict vegans (ie eat plant food only). Some people feel it's a sin to cook or even heat food (ie you have to eat everything raw).

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 14:30:14 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 14:13:50 2007.

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Where do they get these "morals" from? Can't blame it on religion, or at least not any religion I'm aware of.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 14:33:19 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:16:04 2007.

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They were convicted of murder. Don't know what degree the charges "malice murder" and "felony murder" are rated at (some sources say this crime is at first-degree); they were also convicted of "first-degree cruelty to (children)".

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by American Pig on Fri May 4 15:03:45 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 07:20:07 2007.

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Yes, it causes the body to break out in pussies.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by RonInBayside on Fri May 4 16:29:58 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 14:30:14 2007.

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Personal beliefs. They then will find something in a religion to "justify" it. If there isn't a good enough religion they will invent one.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 19:23:56 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Olog-hai on Fri May 4 11:46:31 2007.

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Exactly. It's sick.

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Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Fri May 4 19:26:56 2007, in response to Re: Vegan couple gets *life* for starving their baby to death, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Fri May 4 13:18:44 2007.

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Yes, it's sick. I can't "understand" vegetarianism either, but at least I can accept that that is a viable alternative, and you can live and get proper nutrician, if you really watch that you eat properly to get proper nutrician. However, veganism is just sick.

I dated a vegetarian for a while, and it was "okay", but it would never work. Here I am eating my delicious steak...and there she is across the table picking at a salad. I like meat too much to give it up. That's now why we broke up, but the writing was on the wall anyway...I could never become meatless (not that she was pushing for that), but we would never see eye to eye on it, and eating is just too big a part of life....

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