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| Why can't I get fired like this? (181759) | |
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| (181759) | |
Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 11:37:13 2007 Okey, so CEO's don't really get fired. But the Home Depot CEO was supposed to be so abrasive that they couldn't get rid of him.Poor guy had to leave his job. He got $210million dollars Do you wonder how much every worker would get if that was split up in a bonus? Who the heck gets 210 million for anything? This is where the increased tax revenues come from, not increased production. From $7/hr to $210mil/year. Yea. He made $140/million working there since 2000. **** Corporate pay critics were prepared to cheer the abrupt departure of beleaguered Home Depot Inc. chief Bob Nardelli on Wednesday — but then they got a look at the bill. Nardelli, who was one of the nation's best-paid chief executives, will get a severance package valued at $210 million. That dismayed some corporate watchdogs who have seen a string of departing CEOs collect high-dollar payouts in recent months. "This board should be ashamed of themselves," said Nell Minow, an expert on executive compensation at Corporate Library, a research firm. "I would like to see several board members leave in acknowledgment of their utter failure." Atlanta-based Home Depot, the nation's biggest home-improvement retailer, gave no reason for Nardelli's departure, which it said was "mutually agreed" upon. Nardelli, however, had become a lightning rod for criticism on several fronts. Shareholder activists said he was a preeminent example of runaway executive pay, while investors saw the value of their Home Depot stock sink 12% in his tenure. One Wall Street analyst faulted him for an "autocratic" management style. ... Some experts said the timing indicated that the Home Depot board might have grown tired of the criticism directed at the 58-year-old Nardelli by shareholder activists, union leaders and pension fund managers. Nardelli was the only director to attend the company's annual meeting last May in Delaware, where he provoked critics by refusing to answer questions about his pay. .... Of course he's getting LIFETIME benefits too. LA Times |
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| (181764) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Allan on Thu Jan 4 11:49:52 2007, in response to Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 11:37:13 2007. He had a contract which specfies what happens if he leaves (either on his own or is "forced" out.That is sort of a standard thing for high level corporate postions. For example: in the company I work for - if the CEO is forced to leave he gets paid $20 million. |
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| (181766) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 4 12:10:30 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Allan on Thu Jan 4 11:49:52 2007. If I were that CEO, I'd get myself fired and then retire. |
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| (181779) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 12:27:38 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 4 12:10:30 2007. No kidding.In those other countries, I think you get one more paycheck when you get fired in most cases. Heck, for the $140million, I don't know why anyway would stay. Unless it's for something to do, or he likes going to a lot of fancy balls. People win the lottery for over a million bucks and they quit. Like the Exxon guy who got a half a billion dollars, I'd start my own gas company and compete with myself. Buy an island. Move to latin america and start an army. Who knows. That's rediculous. Forget Hollywood. Corporate theivery is where it's at. get into politics easier. |
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| (181785) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 12:39:34 2007, in response to Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 11:37:13 2007. I had that exact question myself. Nothing like showing up for work one morning and being told "Here's $210 Million, please don't come back".As to your question: Do you wonder how much every worker would get if that was split up in a bonus? Home Depot has 235,000 full time employees. So it's about $1,000 bucks per person. I don't know that much about how much stock and options a typical Home Depot employees has (though perhaps I should since I am a small shareholder of HD myself) but it is entirely possible that many of them got that $1,000 just based on the move in the HD stock price yesterday. |
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| (181815) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 4 14:43:07 2007, in response to Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 11:37:13 2007. Maybe it's time to get rid of employment contracts. Companies say they're competing for rare top talent, but the truth is it's neither as rare nor as "top" as people make it out to be. |
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| (181830) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 15:25:34 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 4 14:43:07 2007. No executive in their right mind is going to take a CEO job without either a contract or a huge wad of cash up front. The contract is simply the lesser of two evils -- and also allows companies to turn themselves around. Without contracts, nobody would consider taking on a company in or near bankruptcy. |
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| (181832) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 4 15:33:54 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 15:25:34 2007. And if the company DID go in the toilet, as an unsecured creditor, the judge would dare the boy to collect. :) |
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| (181834) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 4 15:50:07 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 15:25:34 2007. Actually, there are several recent examples of executives taking jobs without employment contracts. However, your point about bankrupt companies is important.The key is to expand the search. Widen the search enough, and if one candidate says "I want a golden parachute" you say "Have a nice day." The myth is that there aren't enough capable people around for that to be possible. |
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| (181842) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 16:22:19 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 4 15:50:07 2007. The key is to expand the search. Widen the search enough, and if one candidate says "I want a golden parachute" you say "Have a nice day." The myth is that there aren't enough capable people around for that to be possible.But why would you do such a thing? If somebody is the right person for the job, then pay them what you need to in order to hire them. Don't forget that people don't just show up to be CEO. All those "capable people" have to be hired away from another company -- where they have a healthy salary and benefits as well as stock grants and options that may be vesting over the course of the next 5 years. If you don't guarantee them something that covers what they give up then you won't have anyone to hire. Nardelli's buyout cost the company $210M. It's 0.2% of Home Depot's market value of $85 Billion. While $210M is a big number for any individual -- to Home Depot it's diddly squat -- less than one day's revenue. The minute Nardelli was fired, the market value of the company rose by $1 Billion so that -- effectively -- the shareholders got a 400% return on their buyout with Nardelli in a matter of minutes. It's the paradox of today's executive compensation questions. Companies have gotten so large that they can spend outrageous sums on their top executives without having any financial impact on the company. The most interesting example was Tyco -- which lost 75% of it's value when Kozlowski's shower curtain excess was reported. Yet, over the next 18 months the entire loss in value was recovered as people realized that the CEO's excess had no meaningful impact on the company. |
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| (181861) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by BIE on Thu Jan 4 17:37:45 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by RonInBayside on Thu Jan 4 14:43:07 2007. you need to have a track record. Certainly, there are many kids fresh out of school who have the inate talent to run a major company, the BOD needs PROFFPROFF that the CEO can perform. This is not to say that CEOs aren't paid many times what they are really worth but that the stockholders would sleep better knowing that their CEO has a clue. Doubt existed with nardelli, so the Board shit him out. |
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| (181893) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 19:37:16 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Mitch45 on Thu Jan 4 12:10:30 2007. He gets paid more for staying. If I were him, I'd stay. |
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| (181902) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 19:45:44 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Jan 4 15:33:54 2007. But they do collect. Like Winn-dixie, who fires a lot of people, go to federal court, gets a nice bonus for the year. Not 200mil though. |
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| (181903) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jan 4 19:46:04 2007, in response to Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 11:37:13 2007. ''free welfare for life'' |
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| (181904) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 19:47:53 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Thu Jan 4 16:22:19 2007. Market caps are so hocus pocus-ie to me. Big board stocks trade at like 15x their earnings. It's somewhat arbitrary in my mind.If they did a dividend payout of 210million dollars, then the share price will be adjusted to reflect less cash. It's all forward thinking. |
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| (181905) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 19:48:56 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 12:27:38 2007. People win the lottery for over a million bucks and they quit.Because they don't earn millions of dollars for staying at their job. For a lottery winner who earns $60,000 per year, what used to be a good salary is now chump change to him. Like the Exxon guy who got a half a billion dollars, I'd start my own gas company and compete with myself. Buy an island. Move to latin america and start an army. Who knows. That's rediculous (sic). Forget Hollywood. Corporate theivery (sic) is where it's at. get into politics easier. If I were that Exxon guy, the first thing I'd do is get a chin lift. And this is not thievery at all, his salary and benefits package was approved by the board of directors who were elected by the shareholders. |
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| (181938) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 4 22:38:20 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 19:48:56 2007. this is not thievery at all, his salary and benefits package was approved by the board of directors who were elected by the shareholdersThat makes it thievery. |
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| (181939) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 4 22:40:19 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 19:37:16 2007. Should get paid for staying alone. And get nothing when forced out, like what happened here. If not, then everyone in the USA should get bonuses for being fired. |
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| (181946) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 23:06:13 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 4 22:40:19 2007. No, everyone should not get bonuses for getting fired, some people are worth more than others. |
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| (181947) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 23:07:03 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Jan 4 22:38:20 2007. No it doesn't, the owners of the company agreed on this allocation of company resources. If you are not a shareholder, you should have no say. |
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| (181951) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Andrew Kirschner on Thu Jan 4 23:13:46 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 19:37:16 2007. Geoarge Costanza tried that once. Remember what hapenned to him? |
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| (181954) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 23:25:54 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 23:07:03 2007. Shareholders have no say anyway. All that stuff is typically controlled by the majority shareholder. Controlling shareholders(sometimes board members) usually have more than half, so whatever I say doesn't count. There was a good Futurerama episode that demonstrates this very well, with the 80's guy.<- Small time shareholder that's been screwed over plenty. Imagine if elections were done that way, yikes. |
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| (181968) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 00:04:50 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 23:07:03 2007. the owners of the company agreed on this allocation of company resourcesYou mean thievery of company resources. |
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| (181969) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 00:05:59 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Thu Jan 4 23:06:13 2007. everyone should not get bonuses for getting firedYes, nobody should ever get bonuses for being fired. I agree. some people are worth more than others Ever read the Declaration of Independence? |
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| (181985) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:27:05 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Thu Jan 4 23:25:54 2007. Nobody put a gun to your head to buy the stock (if you're a shareholder). |
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| (181986) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:27:30 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 00:04:50 2007. No, I don't. |
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| (181987) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:28:16 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 00:05:59 2007. Ever read the Declaration of Independence?All men are CREATED equal, it doesn't mean they remain equal. |
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| (181991) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:31:01 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Andrew Kirschner on Thu Jan 4 23:13:46 2007. Yes, they had him downgraded to some sort of a bunker. It was like Hitler's last days there. |
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| (182013) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 01:50:04 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:28:16 2007. All men are CREATED equal, it doesn't mean they remain equalThey are created equal, and they die equal. During life, the point is to keep as equal as possible without resorting to Marxism. |
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| (182014) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 01:50:43 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:27:30 2007. Then ask Larry to change your handle to UnAmerican Pig. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jan 5 05:04:08 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jan 4 19:46:04 2007. just like you |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Fri Jan 5 05:09:47 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jan 5 05:04:08 2007. like me what ?you dont know anything |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 06:59:02 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 01:50:43 2007. There's nothing Un-American about this. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 07:02:36 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Jan 5 01:50:04 2007. No it isn't. If everyone were equal in life, then no one would bother trying to be better than anyone else. Why would a person spend years getting a professional degree when they are the same as an idiot assembly line monkey? Oh right, we don't have any of those anymore, because Americans are worth more than the Chinese and Mexicans. |
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| (182068) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Jan 5 07:20:34 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 07:02:36 2007. Dewwwwwwd! You're SCARING me! Want some of this RED wine? (grin) |
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| (182069) | |
Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 07:28:03 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 07:02:36 2007. They aren't monkeys, they're CHIMPANZEES |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 07:29:37 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 06:59:02 2007. Olog is some kind of rightie but not a neocon. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Charles G on Fri Jan 5 09:08:45 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 07:29:37 2007. I always thought he was one of yours... |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 09:10:17 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Fri Jan 5 09:08:45 2007. Nope, he is still capable of independent thinking :) |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Charles G on Fri Jan 5 09:10:46 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:27:05 2007. And in the specific case of HD, nobody owns more than 5% of the company (and likely not more than about 2-3% of the company). |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 09:17:38 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Thu Jan 4 19:46:04 2007. Why not? You've had it all your life, pansy! |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by SUBWAYSURF on Fri Jan 5 09:41:41 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 07:29:37 2007. Olag is a shithead, plain and simple. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 10:41:48 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 00:27:05 2007. "Nobody put a gun to your head to buy the stock (if you're a shareholder)."Except the gov't. In Bush's socialist manofesto when social security owns stock(the people own all the companies in a sharemarket via the gov't), I'm sure Home Depot would be in there. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 10:48:30 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Fri Jan 5 09:10:46 2007. How very strange. I see no SEC schedule 13D's or 13g's for the company. Not even a hedgefund or mutual fund wants 5% of the company.But the CEO filed to sell a bucketload of shares prior to his removal. Unfortunately it's classified as a tax sale so no funny business. :( |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by American Pig on Fri Jan 5 11:31:45 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 10:41:48 2007. No, not except the gov't. Despite what Bush may want to do, it hasn't been done. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 12:30:03 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 10:41:48 2007. Again, more of your "what if?" bullshit. Try talking in reality for a change. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 12:36:27 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 12:30:03 2007. Ohhh...that's right...I forgot. Schwab wasn't trying to get social security privatized since '94, and that wasn't what all the political capital was spent on. Robertson didn't think it was going to be passed.hehehehohoho, yea I'm not the one in reality. It's easy to forget the misteps of the last few years, there's been so many. The march to a quasi-fascist socialism goes on. Glad you're still in lock-step. |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 12:42:37 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by orange blossom special on Fri Jan 5 12:36:27 2007. What the fuck are you babbling about? Care to try plain english with a few facts? |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 12:50:02 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Train Dude on Fri Jan 5 09:10:17 2007. WOUGH!!!8-) |
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Re: Why can't I get fired like this? |
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Posted by BIE on Fri Jan 5 12:53:13 2007, in response to Re: Why can't I get fired like this?, posted by Charles G on Fri Jan 5 09:08:45 2007. The railroad has an acronym which it uses to describe miscellaneous commodities in shipping papers, NOIBN which stands for Not Otherwise Indexed By Name. so I will call Olag a NOIBN. |
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