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(1690246)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 11:36:04 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:30:15 2020.

And in their haste (or on purpose), made a host of crimes mandatory ROR that should never have classified as that. If you wanted to address your concern, which I disagree about being an actual concern, New York could have passed a law permitting Judges to suspend execution of the bail conditions upon the requisite showing that the Defendant had no possible way of obtaining the assets necessary to post. This way if the person commits another crime you can revoke bail.

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(1690247)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:42:35 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 11:36:04 2020.

And in their haste (or on purpose), made a host of crimes mandatory ROR that should never have classified as that.

I agree with that, but you're the only person actually arguing this point. Everyone else is of the mind that bail is great because that's the way it's always been done, and the entire idea of letting any alleged criminal out without bail is a massive travesty.

Still, I lament the fact that the law is so broad that the public can be swayed by the arguments of the fascists.

I don't agree that any system of money or asset bail should be used at all. They can use ankle monitors or other means to ensure compliance, and not a freedom ransom. Bail should go the way of the debtor's prison.*

*I have little doubt that Olog-hai wishes that the debtor's prison were restored.

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(1690248)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 11:51:59 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:42:35 2020.

I disagree. Ankle monitoring is not enough to ensure compliance. It also does nothing to prevent recidivism. It just tells people after the fact where you were. Not to mention, how soon will you get a lawsuit claiming Fourth Amendment violation if data from ankle monitor was used in a later criminal prosecution.

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(1690249)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:54:21 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 11:51:59 2020.

And yet mortgaging a house does?

Recidivism has nothing to do with the bail system, it's a matter for the sentence, or for post-release programs for ex-cons.

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(1690256)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 12:02:03 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:54:21 2020.

If you have a house at risk you are more likely to go to Court

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(1690266)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jan 14 12:08:25 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jan 14 09:49:09 2020.

Well, the perp that assaulted that cop on video did not show up to court! I know you are as shocked as I am!

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(1690267)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jan 14 12:12:42 2020, in response to Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Sat Jan 11 15:26:30 2020.

Remember, we could argue this, we can argue that. This law was made for one reason, and one reason only. That's why it will not completely go away.

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(1690268)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:14:21 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Jan 14 12:12:42 2020.

What is the "one reason and one reason only" why this law was enacted?

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(1690272)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 12:29:47 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 12:02:03 2020.

Except that a lot of the time it's a loved one who provides the collateral, who can't bear to say no to their wayward kin. And then the deadbeat fails to show up and an innocent person loses their house. Yeah, maybe more people should put their foot down with their deadbeat relatives, but that's not how the real word works and it's a particularly cruel way of ensuring compliance.

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(1690275)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:47:40 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 11:30:15 2020.

Clearly a faulty law. If a person on ROR commits another crime, they should be in until trial - no bail. Any one of us could end up being a victim of this law.

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(1690277)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:49:26 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 11:24:23 2020.

LOL

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(1690278)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:51:01 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:47:40 2020.

But a person on ROR is considered innocent of the original charges until convicted, and also considered innocent of anything he or she is arrested for during the pretrial period. How is remanding not a presumption of guilt?

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(1690279)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:52:31 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:49:26 2020.

Maybe you think it's funny that Browser's horrible treatment at the hands of New York State led to his suicide, but the rest of us don't.

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(1690280)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:55:15 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:51:01 2020.

So then, regardless of the charge, you are in favor of releasing ROR anyone not convicted of the crime that he's arrested for? What about a serial gay-basher who has never been convicted?

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(1690281)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:55:55 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:52:31 2020.

Are you sure that you speak for everyone here?

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(1690283)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 13:05:59 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:55:15 2020.

I'm fine with ROR for suspects not charged with murder, attempted murder, rape, pedophilia, ADW, or terrorism.

A "serial gay-basher" is likely to be charged with one or more of the above.

If a defendant is "not convicted of the crime he's arrested for", then he's innocent. Stop trying to gaslight.

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(1690286)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 13:14:47 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:55:55 2020.

Pretty sure few, if any people here consider the state-sanctioned breaking of a human being to the point of suicide, "funny".

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(1690287)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:21:43 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 13:05:59 2020.

It's easy to gaslight a weak mind but you still failed to answer my question. Assault 3 is a charge eligible for ROR. If a serial gay basher was consistently charged with assault 3 against gays and released to bash more gays, what would your opinion of the law be?

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(1690288)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:22:55 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 13:14:47 2020.

But you can't say for sure, can you? Perhaps its not the message but the messenger that we are laughing at.

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(1690292)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:35:46 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 12:47:40 2020.

But wait a minute, what if (God forbid) a person who assaults LGBT victims is arrested then is out without bail only to violently murder an LGBT victim?

They (as well as us) should be extremely concerned about the bail reform law. JayZero obviously isn't.

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(1690293)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:38:01 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:35:46 2020.

My point, exactly

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(1690294)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:43:46 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 11:24:23 2020.

It was sad what Browder went through, accused of a crime he didn't commit. But that does not account for the majority of criminals who are not wrongfully accused. And I don't believe 2and degree robbery would make you eligible for release without bail anyway.

But his suicide was two years after his release.

These are things which you fail to point out. Only thing we agree is to work on the wrongfully accused which is a very small fraction of most criminals.

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(1690295)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:46:52 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:38:01 2020.

We should be concerned about everyone's life, no matter the skin color, gender, disability, religion (or if you are an atheist) or sexual orientation. Everyone's life matters.

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(1690297)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Jan 14 14:08:46 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:46:52 2020.

JayZee is so bigoted, that it only matters to him if they are a "protected class" group. Otherwise be damned. At least that's what he portrays

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(1690298)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 14:11:38 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 13:35:46 2020.

What if a turnstyle jumper is arrested then is out without bail only to violently murder an LGBT victim? At least where I practice, I have found the Judges/Prosecutors to be extremely deferential to the Defense on bail. This is not Law & Order where they remand or set ridiculous bail like crazy. This is a proposed solution to a "crisis" in search of an actual crisis.

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(1690299)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 14:14:38 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Jan 14 14:08:46 2020.

Exactly

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(1690300)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 14:20:29 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Jan 14 14:08:46 2020.

+1,000,000,000,000,000,000

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(1690302)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 14:26:42 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by gp38/r42 chris on Tue Jan 14 14:08:46 2020.

Do you even know what a protected class is, or are you parroting the Ologist definition?

NOTE: Iím not necessarily disagreeing with what youíre trying to say.

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(1690303)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 14 14:37:04 2020, in response to Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Sat Jan 11 15:26:30 2020.

Once the banks start to complain, the law will be changed. Politicians may be idiots but they aren't dumb. They know where their bread is buttered.

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(1690305)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:39:23 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:22:55 2020.

YOU are laughing at the "messenger".

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(1690306)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:41:46 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 13:21:43 2020.

I'd still be OK with the law because I understand its intent. Your hypothetical gay-basher would be compounding his problems by attacking someone after a first arrest. But if he is someone with resources, under the old law, he could just as well post bail and do it anyway.

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(1690307)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 14:42:29 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 14:26:42 2020.

Yes, I mean any group he considers to be a victim status. I didn't parrot anyone. it's my own word for it. If there are others that use that, so be it.

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(1690308)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 14:43:48 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Mitch45 on Tue Jan 14 14:37:04 2020.

I don't think it will be changed until and when the Democrats are voted out of NY State, or at least to make the pendulum swing back.
They have NOT made many good points with many people in all the utter CRAP they have done in the last year.

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(1690310)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 14:45:07 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:41:46 2020.

The "intent" doesn't mean it is a good law.
It's the same with the rent law. The "intent" is to help people, especially lower income, and make apartments cheaper and more available. What the law actually does is make a bad situation much worse.
Same here.

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(1690314)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 14 14:59:10 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 12:14:21 2020.

You can't vote if you're in jail.

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(1690315)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 14:59:50 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:39:23 2020.

No we are LOL at you.

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(1690316)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 15:00:14 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 14 14:59:10 2020.

Even if you are in jail as long as you have not convicted you can still vote absentee.

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(1690317)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 14 15:00:25 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 14:43:48 2020.

You are right.

I have this video someone did by himself of his local progressive black congresswoman from NYC actually parrotting the talking points of a corporate lobbyist.

Corporate Democrats.

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(1690318)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 15:02:47 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:41:46 2020.

He could do it, but if the person kept doing it the Judge could remand even on a minor charge. Under the new law, the Judge lacks that discretion.

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(1690319)

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Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 15:09:47 2020, in response to Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Sat Jan 11 15:26:30 2020.

Oh yea, January 1st was too late for this repeat DWI offender, in fact he was free with no bail after allegedly killing a man while driving drunk in Long Island oh yea JayZero what do you have to say about this.....now he is stink out free while a family has to bury their victim from a tragic crash?

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(1690322)

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Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 14 15:20:19 2020, in response to Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....), posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 15:09:47 2020.

Alcohol should be banned or strictly controlled by a government.

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(1690323)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 15:20:41 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 14:41:46 2020.

yes, people seem to forget that criminals used to make bail all the time.

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(1690327)

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Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jan 14 15:30:17 2020, in response to Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....), posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 14 15:20:19 2020.

IAWTP

Signed,

Abu Bakr Al-Jahannam (formerly Al-Baghdadi)

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(1690328)

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Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 14 15:30:18 2020, in response to Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....), posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 14 15:20:19 2020.

Alcohol should be banned or strictly controlled by a government.

It's been tried.

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(1690329)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jan 14 15:41:50 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Tue Jan 14 14:59:50 2020.

Zero keeps missing the larger picture.

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(1690331)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by Orange Blossom Special on Tue Jan 14 15:44:17 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 15:00:14 2020.

Yeah but then your vote is thrown away if its the wrong party.
Luckily we don't have to worry about that.

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(1690332)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 15:45:24 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 15:02:47 2020.

That's not entirely true. If someone awaiting trial is arrested for a higher crime like arson, rape or murder, the judge mist certainly can remand.

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(1690335)

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Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank.

Posted by mtk52983 on Tue Jan 14 16:03:59 2020, in response to Re: Serial bank robber freed thanks to NYS bail reform, strikes another bank., posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue Jan 14 15:45:24 2020.

Manslaughter in the Second Degree is automatic ROR. Putting that asside, if someone keeps assaulting people while out on ROR, the Courts are powerless to stop it.

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(1690339)

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Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 16:27:24 2020, in response to Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....), posted by LuchAAA on Tue Jan 14 15:20:19 2020.

Yeah, that worked. RE: 1920's.

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(1690340)

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Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....)

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Tue Jan 14 16:27:45 2020, in response to Re: Drunk driver free after DWI related death (Re: Serial bank robber freed .....), posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Jan 14 15:30:18 2020.

LOL, and went "really" well.

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