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Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 05:49:15 2019

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/11/us/politics/democrats-house-oath.html

tl;dr version: When administering oaths to witnesses, they no longer append "so help you God" at the end of it.

I support this. In New York Courts, the phraseology is "Do you swear or affirm. . ." with no "so help you God". This allows affirmations without placing the witness on the spot, requiring him to openly express his conscientious objection to an oath.

I have only once taken a (mass) oath where the official administering the oath appended "So help you God" and I had no choice but to say "I do" with everyone else although I would have felt better with an affirmation.

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(1625443)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Mitch45 on Wed May 15 06:35:41 2019, in response to Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 05:49:15 2019.

I like the George Burns approach in the first "Oh, God! movie.

When he was on the stand to give testimony about whether he was God, he said "so help me me".

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(1625451)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 07:05:22 2019, in response to Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 05:49:15 2019.

I support this

You support Steve Cohen presuming to speak for God?
What Republicans are doing is using God. And God doesn't want to be used.
Going from booing God to banning God in Congress. The Dems aren't standing up for religious freedom.

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(1625458)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 07:27:56 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 07:05:22 2019.

I didn't even understand the phrase in pig's first posting, but I didn't want to read the article.
Thanks for summing it up for me. Nonsense just as I expected.

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(1625479)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 08:50:05 2019, in response to Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 05:49:15 2019.

Even though I know it's a fairy tale, they should leave it in. Who cares if it's in there? It's tradition. And yes, now you will tell me all of the bad things that are traditions as well or used to be, I know already.

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(1625480)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 08:54:45 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 08:50:05 2019.

No, they shouldn't. People should not be forced to acknowledge god and shouldn't be put on the spot if they wish a secular oath or affirmation.

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(1625481)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 08:55:29 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 07:05:22 2019.

How is this contrary to religious freedom?

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(1625482)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:03:56 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 08:50:05 2019.

It's tradition.

To some degree.



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(1625483)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:08:20 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 07:05:22 2019.

banning God in Congress

Good catch. I missed the part where the House forbids witnesses from adding "So help me God" if they wish.





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(1625485)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:11:59 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:08:20 2019.

Which is the way it should be!

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(1625486)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:23:26 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:11:59 2019.

So do you think that if a witness adds "So help me God" to their oath, it should be considered invalid and they shouldn't be allowed to testify?



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(1625487)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:24:55 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:23:26 2019.

What?

I see how you interpreted my response, but it's still a strange conclusion for you to make.

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(1625489)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:34:49 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:24:55 2019.

Huh?

1. Olog says the House has excluded God.

2. I conclude that all he could possibly mean by that is that witnesses are no longer permitted to say "So help me God." After all, if they were still permitted to say that phrase, the House would not have excluded God.

3. You say that my interpretation is "the way it should be." What could you mean by that other than that it should be that witnesses are not allowed to say "So help me God."




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(1625492)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:47:58 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:34:49 2019.

3. I say that individuals adding “so help me God” of their own free will is the way it should be.

There, corrected for you.

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(1625493)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 09:49:07 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 08:54:45 2019.

I've wondered for a while:

What is the point of an secular oath? Does it hold any weight to the person at all?

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(1625494)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:52:17 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 09:49:07 2019.

Yes, it does.

As someone who does not believe that there is any higher power, any religious oath is as meaningless to me as taking an oath to Zeus, or R’hollor.

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(1625495)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:56:05 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:47:58 2019.

OK.

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:28 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:52:17 2019.

I wish I was taking an oath to Ronald McDonald!

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(1625502)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:47 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 08:54:45 2019.

Who cares?!

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(1625507)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 10:25:52 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:47 2019.

I do. I respect the courts and the government enough that I do not wish to take childish "oaths." If other people believe that swearing before God is something serious, then let them do it.

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(1625521)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:18:41 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 09:52:17 2019.

Unless you answered without explaining it, I think you answered the question backwards.

If you believe or don't "believe", my question is, if you are taking a generic oath, what weight is that carrying?

So, you're 17 years old, and go on facebook to buy a gun. You meet, and get it. And then you hold your gun sideways and shoot up a houseparty.
Is that oath you pledged in court really going to stop you from lying to that white judge?

We can go to less inflamatory examples, but I figure with the general climate, why not give us an everyday example. Anyway, this is what I don't get. Who respects the state enough that some oath is a big deal to them (without the G word)?

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(1625522)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:20:04 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:47 2019.

Heaven Above and the Earth below cares?

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(1625528)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 11:40:24 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:18:41 2019.

Affirmations are "under penalty of perjury" or some equivalent.

If that 17 year old doesn't respect the Court, or society, it's unlikely that "God" will make a difference.

I respect the state more than "God" because the state actually has power over me. God doesn't, given its non-existence.

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(1625529)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:44:51 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 11:40:24 2019.

"If that 17 year old doesn't respect the Court, or society, it's unlikely that "God" will make a difference."

I see your point. In that case, why bother having any oath at all? I see these swearing in things, and wonder why even bother, it seems lame. Just have an instruction that if you lie, we'll lock you up and be done with it. Like a Jury Instruction.

"I respect the state more than "God" because the state actually has power over me. God doesn't, given its non-existence. "

You haven't been reading anything I've suggested or even gone to the classes! Tsk tsk.

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(1625530)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 11:46:02 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:44:51 2019.

I see your point. In that case, why bother having any oath at all?

It's a tradition. It could probably be dispensed with.

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(1625531)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:46:42 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:03:56 2019.

Yeah, I know that.

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(1625533)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:47:35 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by AlM on Wed May 15 09:23:26 2019.

So help me Lemmy!

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(1625536)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:58:04 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 10:25:52 2019.

All oaths are bullshit anyway if you think about it

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(1625537)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:58:35 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:20:04 2019.

But the Earth is round, so Heaven should be all around us, including below and to the sides

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(1625549)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Edwards! on Wed May 15 12:18:27 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Wed May 15 11:18:41 2019.

You Could have,but you basically admitted that you Wanted to shot for shock value to make your statement more colorful.

SMH...

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(1625625)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 15:58:38 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:58:04 2019.

Then society will fall apart. Is that what you want?

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(1625627)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 16:01:06 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 11:40:24 2019.

Ah, so you are a socialist. That's exactly how a socialist thinks. You don't understand the Second Amendment either.

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(1625636)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 16:27:26 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 16:01:06 2019.

LOL! There’s so much there to unpack. I’ll get back to this later.

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(1625645)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 16:45:30 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 15:58:38 2019.

Yes, I want that. 🙄🙄

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(1625649)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 17:00:55 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 16:45:30 2019.

Olog-hai is a religious fanatic.

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(1625655)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 17:19:09 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 16:45:30 2019.

Well, keep insisting that nobody can be held to their word and you'll get it.

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(1625660)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed May 15 17:28:34 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 17:19:09 2019.

He insisted on no such thing.

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 16 07:56:46 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 11:58:35 2019.

When I'm in Canada and look up, I see the stars right?
When I'm in New Zealand and look up do I see Canada, or the stars?

Exactly, the earth is round (although democrats on youtube keep claiming it's flat).

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(1625806)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 09:08:06 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 16 07:56:46 2019.

Even the Bible says the earth is round.

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(1625818)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 16 09:25:03 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 09:08:06 2019.

But that's a fictitious book.

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(1625863)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by orange blossom special on Thu May 16 10:59:30 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 16 09:25:03 2019.

Yeah, I heard 30 seconds of Glenn Beck this morning and he had some foreign professor saying that it has nothing to do with science.
Another one that should learn something before he speaks. Else he wouldn't have had to come up with the same data 2000 years after the Rabbi's have.

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(1625865)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 11:08:59 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 16 09:25:03 2019.

LOL, then why does it agree with science? Or rather, why does science agree with it if it's "fictitious"?

You sound more leftist with such outbursts.

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(1625880)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 16 11:43:36 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:28 2019.

If you paid money to get food from McDonald's, that's enough! :-)


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(1625881)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 11:47:10 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:28 2019.

Just don't take an oath to Sir Ronald of McDonald.

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(1625882)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by mtk52983 on Thu May 16 11:50:11 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed May 15 10:16:28 2019.

I prefer taking it to the Flying Spaghetti Monster!

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(1625884)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 16 11:55:41 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 11:08:59 2019.

I'm going to change my name to BILLLEFTY!!

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(1625885)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu May 16 11:56:29 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 11:47:10 2019.

Now there's a name from the past

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(1625886)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by 3-9 on Thu May 16 11:56:31 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by mtk52983 on Thu May 16 11:50:11 2019.

And its chief priest, Chef Boyardee! :-)

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(1625899)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu May 16 12:35:44 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 16 11:47:10 2019.

Unwarranted personal attack!

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(1629573)

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Re: Democratic House expels God

Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 4 07:45:56 2019, in response to Re: Democratic House expels God, posted by Olog-hai on Wed May 15 16:01:06 2019.

Forgot to get back to this:

1. What the fuck does the second amendment have to do with taking oaths?
2. How does atheism relate to government ownership of the means of production? If anything, you're a "socialist" because you believe that "God" owns the means of production.

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