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| Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? (1609109) | |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 12:25:39 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. You sound like a republican. |
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| (1609114) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:27:43 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 12:25:39 2019. On this topic, yes. |
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| (1609115) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:28:08 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. New York is giving the nightmares free college tuition. |
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| (1609116) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:28:14 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. I think that if the Berlin Wall was immoral, then so is Trump's wall. They're immoral for different reasons, but still...I think there are other, better ways to curb illegal immigration, and, yes, I think a path to citizenship for Dreamers is one of them. |
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| (1609118) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:28:53 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:28:08 2019. SMH |
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| (1609119) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:30:18 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:28:14 2019. I think that if the Berlin Wall was immoral, then so is Trump's wall. They're immoral for different reasons, but still...What a ridiculous statement. You are saying that because one wall is immoral then another wall must be immoral and then in your next sentence completely contradicting that. Regardless, Trump's wall is stupid, but not immoral. |
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| (1609120) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:30:32 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:28:08 2019. All public universities should be free. CUNY was free 35 years ago, and I'm glad it is again. CUNY is free for every NYC resident, not just the Dreamers. |
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| (1609121) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:32:07 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:30:32 2019. It should only be free for citizens of New York City.Although I don't think college should be completely free. Maybe community college. |
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| (1609122) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 12:33:08 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. IAWTP.I support the Obama position. We need reasonable border security. Most of the wall proposal is pandering, but if CBP identifies places where security needs some improvement, let's do it. PS. The February bill did include $1.4 billion for border barriers. Since Trump now says that fences are walls too, this means the current Democrats are not actually fully anti-wall. |
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| (1609123) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:34:29 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:30:18 2019. Physical obstacles like huge walls are immoral for a country whose philosophy is one of freedom. Granted, illegal immigration must be addressed, but a barrier whose visual message is one of hostility, is not morally correct or fiscally prudent.Suggesting alternative strategies for dealing with illegal immigration doesn't contradict that. |
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| (1609126) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:36:53 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:28:14 2019. My primary beef about the wall is that it could just as easily be used by an authoritarian government down the line to keep Americans *in*. I actually do think it will be effective in slowing down illegal immigration and reducing the illegal drugs coming in undetected.The Dreamers citizenship path makes sense. If they speak fluent English, have no criminal record or ties to entities like MS-13, and have been here as long as they can remember, let 'em stay. We've already spent the resources educating them, it'd be nice if they could use what we've invested in them to enter the workforce and become aboveboard taxpayers. |
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| (1609127) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:37:44 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:34:29 2019. Physical obstacles like huge walls are immoral for a country whose philosophy is one of freedom.Fully disagree. Our freedom does not extend to allowing unlimited infiltration or criminals and contraband. Granted, illegal immigration must be addressed, but a barrier whose visual message is one of hostility, is not morally correct or fiscally prudent. No moral issue whatsoever to being hostile to infiltration. |
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| (1609128) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:37:49 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:36:53 2019. IAWTP! |
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| (1609131) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:40:15 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. WOAH! This can't be Spider-Pig. This has got to be an imposter. |
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| (1609133) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:41:26 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:36:53 2019. My primary beef about the wall is that it could just as easily be used by an authoritarian government down the line to keep Americans *in*.LOL! I actually do think it will be effective in slowing down illegal immigration and reducing the illegal drugs coming in undetected. The problem is that the wall would be excessive. Smaller, more targeted investment in border barriers would have the same effect. The Dreamers citizenship path makes sense. If they speak fluent English, have no criminal record or ties to entities like MS-13 IAWT |
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| (1609134) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:42:22 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:40:15 2019. I've always been anti-illegal. Pay attention. |
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| (1609135) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:43:04 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:28:08 2019. This can't be mtk52983 . This has got to be an imposter. |
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| (1609136) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:43:36 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:30:32 2019. How would we pay for it? |
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| (1609137) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:43:44 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:32:07 2019. I like Cuomo's indentured servitude plan for free SUNY. SUNY gets subsidies from the state anyway, this way the subsidy is provided via the student attending. Then they have to stick around as a NY taxpayer for a few years or pay back the loan.I do not like there being a financial barrier to college, simply because our populace is trending towards higher intellect, and if the cure for cancer is in the mind of a poor person who can't afford college than it's best for society to get that out. The only change I would make is if there was a requirement to pick a useful major (STEM, business, law, etc) for free college: navel-gazers and SJWs can go on their own dime. |
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| (1609138) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:44:57 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:30:18 2019. There's the real Spider-Pig we know and love. |
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| (1609139) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:48:00 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:28:14 2019. I'd respond to your comment, but I better be nice to you. I want to meet you next month. |
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| (1609140) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 12:48:02 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:36:53 2019. My primary beef about the wall is that it could just as easily be used by an authoritarian government down the line to keep Americans *in*. I actually do think it will be effective in slowing down illegal immigration and reducing the illegal drugs coming in undetected.Per our fearless leader, the wall is now a fence. Your post makes it sound like you are unaware that a large amount of really good fencing already exists. And in areas where there is no fence, there is usually a 100 mile walk through the desert instead, which is a lot more effective than any wall or fence. |
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| (1609141) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:49:24 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 12:48:02 2019. I want to meet you too. And I promise to call you Al. |
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| (1609144) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:54:42 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:43:44 2019. The problem is deciding what's a useful major. There's nothing stopping the state from prioritizing useless majors and downplaying useful ones. For example, STEM majors are more expensive given the need to maintain labs, so they would go in case of budget cuts. At the same time, ethnic studies majors are profoundly worthless, but cheap and legislators would pander to various groups by increasing funding for more of those.One solution I see is market-based: Allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy after a certain number of years and at the same time allow lenders to discriminate based on the student's courseload and grades. If a particular major is un-economical, no bank would invest in it by offering loans. Of course, banks could be shamed into offering them because SJWs would complain that not enough loans are given to students wanting to major in a particular ethnic studies field. |
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| (1609145) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:55:13 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:43:04 2019. Then you have not read my posts on OTChat. There are some issues where I agree with Democrats and others I agree with Republicans. Good ideas don't have political party borders. |
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| (1609146) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:55:29 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 12:44:57 2019. ??? |
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| (1609149) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 13:01:07 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:55:29 2019. Ok know and like. |
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| (1609150) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 13:01:47 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Fri Mar 15 12:34:29 2019. Your position is bizarre. Blocking immigration using a wall is immoral yet blocking immigration in other ways isn’t immoral? They are the same thing and morally equivalent to me. I would say that the “optics” of having a wall sends the wrong message since we are indeed a nation of immigrants. It could discourage legal immigration but that’s not a moral issue. |
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| (1609151) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by ClearAspect on Fri Mar 15 13:01:51 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. Is today stupid question day? |
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| (1609152) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 13:05:07 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:54:42 2019. Your market-based solution makes sense.Under the current system there's an incentive to encourage people towards useless degrees: certain student loan debt is forgiven after 120 months of working for the government or certain non-profits. Government and non-profits are typically the only ones who hire people with useless degrees, and in the case of the latter may even seek them out. So successful people expanding the boundaries of human knowledge have to pay off their loans, while underwater basket weavers get a free ride. |
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| (1609153) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:05:28 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 13:01:47 2019. I don't think that a wall in selected places discourages legal immigration. It's just common sense. Legal immigrants don't want illegals just walking in by the tens of thousands either.However, 1950 miles of wall, as originally proposed, would discourage legal immigration because it would show us to be a nation of idiots. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 13:10:22 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 12:48:02 2019. "A lot" of fencing is very different from a complete and total wall.100 miles of desert can be crossed by a variety of vehicles currently wasting their potential shuttling people around suburbs on paved roads. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 15 13:10:39 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. The physical wall is unpractical at best. A better use of funding would be to beef up the border patrol and coast guard. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 15 13:13:26 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 12:36:53 2019. IAWT2ndP |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 13:17:06 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:05:28 2019. Fair enough but either way I’m discussing the morality of trying to do so, not the effectivensss. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:19:16 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 13:10:22 2019. 100 miles of desert can be crossed by a variety of vehicles currently wasting their potential shuttling people around suburbs on paved roads.I don't think you understand what the southwestern desert is like. There are so few roads, and they are so lightly traveled, that the Border Patrol tracks every vehicle. Every driveable road that leads north from the border has a checkpoint. I've driven through quite a few of them. It is surveilled by aerial systems of all sorts. Tijuana/San Ysidro needs a wall, because the suburbs start 50 feet north of the border. Nogales/Nogales needs a fence. Big Bend National Park offers 100 miles of desert, and that's more impenetrable than any wall San Ysidro could have. The original Trump plan would have put a wall through Big Bend. That was totally moronic. As Trump cuts back, I am concerned that the Democrats are over-reacting to his more modest proposals. But remember the boy who cried wolf. That is Trump in this case. |
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| (1609159) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:20:14 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Easy on Fri Mar 15 13:17:06 2019. Yes, I don't understand the morality argument either. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:24:19 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 13:01:07 2019. No, I don't understand. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 13:26:47 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by mtk52983 on Fri Mar 15 12:55:13 2019. I know. I guess that makes you a moderate. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 13:27:28 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:24:19 2019. Do you consider yourself a moderate? |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:28:14 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Mar 15 13:05:07 2019. If the government needs people with the supposedly useless degrees, then they're not really useless, are they? |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:31:11 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Fred G on Fri Mar 15 13:10:39 2019. Here's a good place for a wall.Otherwise you could have a thousand folks from Central America storming the border and losing themselves in the mall. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 15 13:32:23 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. Bill De Blasio wants to give them the vote and free healthcare. WTF?A little fact checking. First, DiBlasio is for universal healthcare. Universal means everyone. He's not proposing something for illegal aliens that he isn't offering everyone else. Second, I suspect that illegal alien voting refers to this info. It's an interesting legal ploy to define NYS citizenship. Here are some of the requirements: "Immigrants would be eligible to become state citizens if they show proof of identity, proof of three years of New York State residency, and proof of three years of New York State tax payments; the bill also requires a commitment to abide by state laws and uphold the state constitution, and a willingness to serve on New York juries and to keep paying state taxes." There's a certain person I'd like to see required to show 3 years' proof of NYS tax payments. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:33:45 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:31:11 2019. Also here.Too bad no one responded. |
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| (1609174) | |
Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:35:30 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by chicagomotorman on Fri Mar 15 13:27:28 2019. Yes. I used to consider myself left wing, and then the AOC/Sanders types became popular. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:36:45 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Mar 15 13:32:23 2019. “Universal” should mean citizens only. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:40:53 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:36:45 2019. Most "universal" things (except voting) should include resident aliens as well. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 13:41:52 2019, in response to Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by AlM on Fri Mar 15 13:40:53 2019. Possibly. But definitely no illegals or temporary visas. |
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Re: Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Fri Mar 15 15:11:45 2019, in response to Why are Democrats so desperate to coddle illegal aliens?, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Mar 15 12:21:37 2019. Voter base. |
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