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Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019

I strongly object to the United States revoking her citizenship. If they can revoke her citizenship, they can revoke mine.

On the other hand, I have no problem with her being put on trial for terrorism, and sentenced to life imprisonment if convicted.




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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Feb 23 22:12:40 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

Is that right? I don't believe you for one second. I'd like you to explain why you feel that way.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 23 22:13:41 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

I agree. There's a constitutional amendment that states she's a citizen. She was born here. We should not screw with that.

That being said, she should be tried and serve an appropriate sentence as detemined by the court.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Feb 23 22:25:00 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by bingbong on Sat Feb 23 22:13:41 2019.

Let the courts decide that then. There is no way I would want them to revoke my citizenship in support of a person that committed essentially treasonous acts.
You dont have my support miss.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Feb 23 22:28:10 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

Fuck 'er!

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Feb 23 23:34:45 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

IAWTP!

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 03:17:01 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Feb 23 22:12:40 2019.

She is born in the US. No one born in the US should ever be allowed to have their citizenship revoked, no matter what crimes they committed. Prison is the answer for crimes.




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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 03:18:07 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sat Feb 23 22:28:10 2019.

A sentence of life imprisonment is fine as far as I am concerned.



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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 03:24:13 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 03:17:01 2019.

Ok fine but you'd reject your citizenship for someone 40 something years younger than you that was prepared to commit heinous crimes against you and your family friends and fellow Americans?

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 03:29:13 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Catfish 44 on Sat Feb 23 22:25:00 2019.

I don't feel I need anyoneís support here. I have the Constitution.

That being said, she should be tried/and sentenced accordingly upon her return.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 24 03:30:55 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

Agreed. We have a justice system to deal with criminals.


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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 03:33:25 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 03:24:13 2019.

You have drastically misunderstood. I'm not volunteering to give up my citizenship. I am opposing a government power that would allow my citizenship to be taken away as well.

If they can revoke her citizenship, they can revoke mine.

My citizenship is based on the same grounds as hers (and, for example, Kamala Harris's). I am an American-born child of non-Americans. My mother wasn't a resident of the US at the time of my birth.



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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 03:51:46 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 03:33:25 2019.

I didn't misunderstand anything.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 04:37:32 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 03:29:13 2019.

She should be shot on sight

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 08:01:20 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 03:51:46 2019.

You posted you'd reject your citizenship

Where on earth do you get that from if you didn't misunderstand?

I never said anything of the sort. There is no way on earth I would ever reject my citizenship.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Feb 24 09:14:15 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

The question of Muthana's actual citizenship is complicated.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 09:21:11 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 08:01:20 2019.

You' should find another cause worthy of your time and attention instead of this little witch.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 09:44:55 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Feb 24 09:14:15 2019.

So either Al didnít know the facts associated with her birth or he was also born under diplomatic immunity. Canít wait to hear which it is since heís worried about his citizenship being revoked.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 10:02:50 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 09:44:55 2019.

He believed that BS from months back about "Trump revoking US citizenship for people born in the USA", which actually referred to the so-called "birthright citizenship" that isn't in the Constitution. Another fake news story.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 10:03:22 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 09:44:55 2019.

Ah, the last time I read about it, it was supposedly established that her father no longer had diplomatic immunity on the date of her birth.

If I am wrong about that, my whole post is inapplicable. I have no objection to the children of diplomats, born in the US, being excluded from citizenship.



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Re: Hoda Muthana?

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 10:08:38 2019, in response to Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sat Feb 23 21:49:12 2019.

If they can revoke her citizenship, they can revoke mine

You really want to make Luch look like a genius by comparison to you? You must believe renunciation does not exist.

I have no problem with her being put on trial for terrorism, and sentenced to life imprisonment if convicted

You're making Luch look like Einstein. Not treason and then executed? Of course, Article 3 Section 3 of the US Constitution would never come to your mind, would it ("levying war against" the US, as ISIS does, "or adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort", as Muthana blatantly did).

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 10:13:22 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Feb 24 09:14:15 2019.

As long as the government argument rests on its claiming that her father had diplomatic immunity when she was born, I support that. Let the court figure out the facts. There's no issue of law that could set a troublesome precedent.





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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 10:20:28 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 10:02:50 2019.

Amendments are parts of the constitution, Olog. Not being born here you might not know that.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 10:22:19 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 10:03:22 2019.

Which makes her a citizen. Had her father been a diplomat when she was born,no she wouldn't be. His commission had expired a month before.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Feb 24 10:28:45 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 10:02:50 2019.

Birthright citizenship was established by the Fourteenth Amendment.

The US also has the doctrine of citizenship "of the soil", which extends to babies born on airplanes flying over US airspace, and on ships sailing on waters within 12 nm of a US coastline.

You really should read up on things before you post obvious falsehoods.

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Re: Hoda Muthana?

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 11:14:11 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana?, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 10:08:38 2019.

Heh. I'm proposing the possibility of life imprisonment. The Trump Administration is proposing letting her off the hook almost completely. No punishment other than a permanent ban from entering the US.



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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 11:25:58 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 10:03:22 2019.

Ok, but the fact that she may not have a legitimate claim to citizenship came out within 24 hours after Trump's tweet that he's not letting her back. So either you missed articles that came out immediately afterwards or you read sources that were less comprehensive, less objective, or both.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 12:08:02 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Feb 24 09:21:11 2019.

The inviolability of US Citizenship is an important cause. Fascists love to destroy the rights of people by saying that the ďothersĒ are not worthy of your time, until you become one of the others.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 12:41:35 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 12:08:02 2019.

JayZ links to an article suggesting that the US position will be based only on the alleged fact that her father was still a diplomat at the time of her birth. As long as they keep it fact-based and don't claim a new legal principle there's probably no risk here.

But if not, then it must be fought.


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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:01:39 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 12:41:35 2019.

Thereís a problem here, though. She claims that her father no longer had diplomatic immunity at the time of her birth, while the Administration claims he did. I DO NOT believe the Administration. If they can come up with a loophole to deny her citizenship, theyíll come up with loopholes for others.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 13:02:54 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:01:39 2019.

If you read JayZee's link, it was the Obama administration that first made that claim against her and revoked her passport.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:04:33 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 13:02:54 2019.

Then fine.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 13:09:54 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:04:33 2019.

The letter that her father provided showing that he was no longer a diplomat when she was born was years after the fact. That could seem odd, but he says that no one had ever questioned her birthright citizenship until that time. And even then the argument could be made that he was still technically a diplomat even if that letter was real. My guess is that it would be an argument that would be more palatable had she not already become a terrorist advocating for terrorist insurrection inside the US.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 13:14:01 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:01:39 2019.

Which raises concern for everyone.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 13:16:25 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:01:39 2019.

But it's an argument of fact, not law. If the lower court finds the facts to be that her father really was a diplomat at the time, there's nothing that could possibly make it to a higher court. Except maybe some really arcane issue as to what constitutes a diplomat.

No one could ever make the argument that your parents, or mine, or Kamala Harris's, or those of millions of others in the same position, were diplomats not subject to US law.



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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:20:01 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 13:16:25 2019.

They canít, but Trumpists are desperate to narrow the definition of ďsubject to the jurisdiction thereof.Ē

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 13:22:22 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:20:01 2019.

Yes, and that must be fought vigorously. If Pompeo says something like "well, even if he wasn't a diplomat, she's still not a citizen ...," it's time for the ACLU to get into full defensive mode.



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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Easy on Sun Feb 24 14:12:46 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 13:16:25 2019.

Itís not as simple as you make out. Did you read the link that JayZee posted? Even if his tenure had ended - which would be a fact - diplomats still have limited immunity to give them time to pack up and move out. Itís up to legal interpretation as to when he stopped being a diplomat.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:16:49 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 13:14:01 2019.

Not for me!

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:18:03 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by AlM on Sun Feb 24 13:22:22 2019.

Stop defending ISIS!

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 14:20:12 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:18:03 2019.

He can't help himself.

That's what happens to your brain on the NY Slimes.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by bingbong on Sun Feb 24 14:26:52 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:16:49 2019.

Yeah, that's because it has nothing to do with you. Which is the limit of what you care about. Hater.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Feb 24 14:32:01 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 13:04:33 2019.

So then the fact's don't matter to you as much as who is giving them to you? Interesting.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 14:32:53 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Feb 24 14:32:01 2019.

That's called shooting the messenger, or stoning the prophets.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 24 14:39:59 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:18:03 2019.

Nobody is defending ISIS but the rule of law.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 14:42:35 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by BILLBKLYN on Sun Feb 24 14:18:03 2019.

Itís Trump and his lackeys who want an ISIS fighter to go free instead of rotting in supermax.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 14:45:44 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by TRAIN DUDE on Sun Feb 24 14:32:01 2019.

The president is such an inveterate liar and the administration has made numerous attempts to revoke citizenship of others that I donít trust anything that comes out of there.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 14:46:13 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Feb 24 14:32:53 2019.

No, itís not. Itís called a lack of credibility.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 24 14:47:20 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 14:42:35 2019.

Exactly, she needs a life sentence not just non-admittance.

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Re: Hoda Muthana

Posted by Fred G on Sun Feb 24 14:52:36 2019, in response to Re: Hoda Muthana, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Feb 24 14:45:44 2019.

Only #cult45 considers Trump trustworthy.

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