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| Re: The worst possible outcome? (1580944) | |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Dec 11 21:05:21 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 14:16:59 2018. This is America, babe! |
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| (1581535) | |
Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 21:06:18 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Dec 11 21:04:15 2018. It needs to be reformed. It's obvious. |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue Dec 11 23:46:53 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 21:06:18 2018. Because YOU don't like or agree with it? TNHIW. |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Dec 11 23:56:36 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 21:06:18 2018. WABB |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 00:41:47 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 21:06:18 2018. IAWTP |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 06:36:33 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Tue Dec 11 21:06:18 2018. I can see arguments on both sides of this debate. On one hand, the Electoral College does give extra power to smaller states because it doesn’t matter if you are California or Alaska, they each have 2 Senators. Therefore, a voter in California has less individual say than a voter in Alaska. On the other hand, the Electoral College requires a candidate to have a more broad based platform to win an election. On a strict popular vote, running up the totals in a few big cities will assure a win. Unfortunately, the issues that matter to the cities don’t always matter to the rest of the country and there is no real way to stop it if they will never have the majority. Most big cities are not involved in foreign trade of agriculture so without the Electoral College that issue likely never comes up. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 07:35:30 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 06:36:33 2018. On a strict popular vote, running up the totals in a few big cities will assure a win.I would think you would have to hit more than a few metropolitan areas, and not just in NY and CA. Most big cities are not involved in foreign trade of agriculture so without the Electoral College that issue likely never comes up. Maybe it won't come up in the election, but the President-elect will have to deal with it because of how important it is and the Senate. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 07:39:14 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 07:35:30 2018. NYC, SF, LA, Boston, Philly, DC/Baltimore/Northern Virginia, South Florida |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 07:48:14 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 07:39:14 2018. I think you're still short of half the population. And I would think a candidate will need to canvas quite a bit more than half to get a majority to vote for them. |
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| (1581600) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 08:39:13 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 06:36:33 2018. I disagree that it requires a broad based appeal. It requires a rural appeal, even though most people are not rural, making the necessary appeal more narrow than it were straight popular vote. Trump, given how reviled he is, won the election with LESS broad appeal than Clinton. |
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Re: The worst possible outcome? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 08:41:31 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 07:39:14 2018. Maybe add a few more and then you have a majority of the national population. But then how is it more broad to ignore those and just go for a few “swing” states? How is winning Ohio more broad-based appeal than winning California? |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 12 08:43:46 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 06:36:33 2018. The biggest cities by and large, are where the ports are. As a good amount of our agricultural output is exported, it goes through to the ports in order to be exported. I'd say the cities have skin in that game. Lots of human power involved.Every policy of the government affects everyone. That's why we need a government that addresses the needs of all. Reforming the electoral college is a much needed step in that direction. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 09:16:20 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 06:36:33 2018. Most big cities are not involved in foreign trade of agriculture so without the Electoral College that issue likely never comes up.WTF? Pretty much every major port is a big city. Galveston, Savannah, and Norfolk are the biggest exceptions I can think of, and they're not the biggest ports. Seattle/Tacoma is massively involved in the shipment of agricultural products. Where do you think the ND soybeans that China isn't buying aren't being shipped through? Other cities also depend to a lesser degree on the health of American agriculture. |
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Posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:20:39 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 08:41:31 2018. Because in the aggregate with Florida, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin you have young, old, rural, urban, farmland, big cities, immigrants, Americans of long standing. That it is much different than running up the vote in boog cities and neighboring suburbs |
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Posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:25:45 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 08:41:31 2018. I also would reform how we do our primary system for President. I would put all 50 states into 10 clusters of 5 that would rotate so that you get as wide of a swath of the country as possible. By way of an example:Cluster 1 - Iowa, Connecticut, Texas, Georgia, Montana Cluster 2 - New Hampshire, California, Arkansas, Wyoming, Indiana |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 09:27:41 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:20:39 2018. The same is true of CA and IL. They are both massive producers of agricultural products, more so than OH or PA. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 09:29:16 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:25:45 2018. Does the federal government have the right to set the timing of state primary elections for federal offices? Just wondering. |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:53:18 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 09:29:16 2018. I believe that is left to the individual parties. I am just saying that if I were in charge of setting the Primary schedule for a party I would do something like the manner I suggested so that you have a candidate who is more likely to win a nationwide election. The current system if you do not do well in the first couple of primaries, which are generally relatively small states, good luck getting funding needed for larger states. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:17:17 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 09:16:20 2018. Galveston is minor compared to Houston, which of course, is a very big city.Norfolk is a good-sized metropolitan area when you consider the fact that it doesn’t have one main city and includes Virginia Beach, Newport News, Hampton and Suffolk. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:21:06 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:20:39 2018. But not in the same proportion as the rest of the country. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 10:26:59 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:17:17 2018. Ah, OK, Galveston is a tiny port compared to Houston.So we're down to Savannah as a large port and a small city. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:28:26 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Mtk52983 on Wed Dec 12 09:25:45 2018. I would go back to smoke-filled rooms. Don’t like the candidate? Vote for another party.I would also adopt Maine-style preferential voting so that votes for 3d parties aren’t wasted. |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 12 10:29:49 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:28:26 2018. WOW! I've been saying that for years. Do you think we should do away with the primaries? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:41:36 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by chicagomotorman on Wed Dec 12 10:29:49 2018. Yes, that’s what I just said. The effect of losing the choice of candidate is mitigated by the fact that there would be more choice in the general. A party that keeps nominating unpopular candidates will just never win. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 12:13:13 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by bingbong on Wed Dec 12 08:43:46 2018. The Electoral College assures that the needs of all are addressed. Why can't you see that? And don't give me Trump blah blah blah! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 12:17:00 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 12:13:13 2018. It actually does the opposite. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 12:34:13 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 12:17:00 2018. It shouldn't have been that difficult for Hillary to secure the Electoral College. Remember during the Democratic primaries all she did was talk about the superdelegates whenever the subject of crazy Bernie catching up the hard came up. She would just shrug her shoulders and remind the people that the super delegates will determine who gets the nomination for the Democratic Party. She knew how the system worked. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:02:03 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 12:34:13 2018. I don’t disagree with that, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Electoral College serves fewer people than the popular vote. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 13:05:18 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:02:03 2018. I think that's the whole point of it. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:06:59 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 13:05:18 2018. And you just said the opposite. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 13:39:12 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:06:59 2018. You know what I mean. I've been up all night and I can't think right now. Anyway, it's here to stay! It's like arguing why is the Sun hot well why is ice cold, it just is. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 13:58:28 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:02:03 2018. I don’t disagree with thatYou should. It's right wing propaganda. Clinton had a significant lead among regular delegates and popular vote, not just superdelegates. |
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| (1581712) | |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:59:00 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 13:39:12 2018. Huh? Why the sun is hot is something that is well-explained. Also, that's a natural phenomenon, the Electoral College is not. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 14:01:18 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 13:58:28 2018. I was referring only to his first sentence. I should have made that clear. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 14:45:39 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 10:41:36 2018. What happens if both major parties pick totally corrupt candidates? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 14:46:47 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 14:45:39 2018. See second paragraph of my prior post. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:03:05 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 13:59:00 2018. Thanks for clearing that up! |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:13:17 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 13:58:28 2018. So now it's right wing propaganda because you disagree with the statement? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:14:12 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 14:01:18 2018. Nah, we are ideological twins! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 15:18:33 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:13:17 2018. It's right wing propaganda because it's false. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:32:27 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 15:18:33 2018. Well, it's policy, and like they said on Goodfellas, and that's that! |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 15:38:14 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:13:17 2018. Because I have facts backing me up and you don't. Hillary won the popular vote and the non-superdelegate count. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Dec 12 15:45:34 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 14:46:47 2018. I don't see how that's going to change the current mostly-2-party system. Sure, others can put up candidates, but without funding and organization, most people won't even hear of them. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:54:13 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 15:38:14 2018. Which still has nothing to do with being elected president. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 16:08:25 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:54:13 2018. No, it has to do with you spouting right wing bullshit propaganda. |
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Posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 12 16:09:20 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 16:08:25 2018. + ♾ |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 16:10:09 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by Fred G on Wed Dec 12 16:09:20 2018. Oh God, I see you got woken up from your nap. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 16:10:28 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 16:08:25 2018. My statement does not have political affiliations. |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Dec 12 16:20:18 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 16:10:28 2018. Yes it does. We are talking about Hillary and superdelegates. It is contrary to fact and being spouted almost exclusively by right wingers. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Dec 12 16:32:43 2018, in response to Re: The worst possible outcome?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 12 15:32:27 2018. What policy? |
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