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Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017

The last World's Fair in the US was held in 1984 and there is little appetite to hold another one. Most of the them lose money. But the 1939 and 1964 World's Fairs were highly memorable, so it would be nice if New York could have another one.

If New York City had another World's Fair, where should it be held? Flushing Meadows again or some other site? I thought of decking over Sunnyside, then redeveloping it after the fair. Flushing Airport would have worked, but that's been built over enough that not enough space remains. If activists succeed in shutting down Rikers, there's that, but I think LGA noise is very bad there.

Some other options:

Floyd Bennett Field
Ferry Point Park (Fuck Trump Links)
Randalls/Wards Island
Fresh Kills
Those empty streets in Bloomfield, Staten Island
A new polder* in the bay

*Eventually I'll necropost my way back to this post.

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(1480312)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Dec 7 19:54:55 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

The Sunnyside idea seems pretty good.
Floyd Bennett is too far and inconvenient. I don't think there's much empty space on Randall's Isle.
Fresh Kills may not be bad but how are folks going to get out there?
Trump links isn't going anywhere now.
Bloomfield is an unattractive area.

A polder in what bay?

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(1480323)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 7 20:43:51 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Dec 7 19:54:55 2017.

Needed easy mass transit (subway) access is a must for a good site to work. I recommend Pelham Bay Park. #6 train to last stop..."for the subway special that takes you there" Re-work the tune & there's your new ad campaign!

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(1480338)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Thu Dec 7 21:53:24 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Dec 7 20:43:51 2017.

I don't think in a park like Pelham Bay you'd be permitted to disturb the natural setting for something like that. But the train and 95 are right there.
Sunnyside is a nice idea. You could walk there from Manhattan or ride a bike. It's definitely not a car centric idea, which makes Sunnyside a good option.

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(1480365)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 7 22:49:14 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

Governer's Island!

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(1480404)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 00:27:12 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 7 22:49:14 2017.

I thought of that too but it's too much I think.

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(1480407)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 8 00:46:32 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

Liberty State Park.

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(1480408)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 00:51:00 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Olog-hai on Fri Dec 8 00:46:32 2017.

Would be a good venue but itís not in NYC.

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(1480413)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Dec 8 01:27:03 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

BEST BET-Randall's Island best bet. 4,5,6 or Metro North to 125 or N,W to Astoria Blvd in Queens ample shuttle service from there.

Runner Ups
-Sunnyside idea would be best but I doubt that decking over's happening anytime soon if at all.

-Floyd Bennett Field has the perfect space for it but too far from civilization public transportation wise(ditto for SI locations) and traffic on the Belt would be a nightmare.



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(1480415)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by AlM on Fri Dec 8 01:28:13 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

So the obvious winner is ...

Flushing Meadow Park.



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(1480443)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 06:10:48 2017, in response to Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Dec 7 18:13:59 2017.

Floyd Bennett Field. Largest area that doesn't threaten developed park land.

For access we'd have an opportunity to consider inventive solutions.

But ... I don't support a World's Fair here. I grew up with stories of the 1939 Fair but then I went to the '64 Fair.

Meh.

But it did have a Tad's.

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(1480445)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 06:11:51 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Dec 7 22:49:14 2017.

No.

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(1480448)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by jimmymc25 on Fri Dec 8 06:25:24 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by AlM on Fri Dec 8 01:28:13 2017.

Yeah...why not?

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(1480449)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 06:54:09 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Dec 8 01:27:03 2017.

Randall's Isle is a gross place.

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(1480450)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 06:55:50 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 06:10:48 2017.

A WF might confuse migratory birds at Floyd Bennett.

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(1480456)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 07:43:31 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Dec 8 01:27:03 2017.

I'm not so sure about Randall's Island. I went there for Cirque du Soleil, and it was a pain getting in by bus. The traffic was even worse when we were leaving - solid traffic jam. I ended up walking back to the 125th Street station, which wasn't easy, because the stairway to the bridge was anything but obvious (google maps didn't help). Even so, I suspect I got to the station before the bus did. :-S


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(1480457)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 07:44:49 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 06:54:09 2017.

Nice views of the Hell Gate's bridge though. :-)

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(1480459)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 07:47:13 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by jimmymc25 on Fri Dec 8 06:25:24 2017.

Hard to set up new pavilions without demolishing stuff, maybe. Except for the NY Pavilion, the previous buildings have been repurposed. Otherwise, I like the idea.

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(1480475)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 09:29:12 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 06:55:50 2017.

I can see the point. Imagine the birds' frustration in landing at the Fair and realizing they can't go on the rides and eat the food because they have no money.

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(1480492)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Dec 8 10:56:14 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 07:43:31 2017.

Damn i can see that being the case, everyone leaving at the same time.

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(1480505)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 11:26:23 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 06:10:48 2017.

I've only ever heard positive nostalgia for the World's Fair, so this is fascinating.

I don't support a World's Fair as those things invariably lose money, and modern society makes them less interesting for a number of reasons.

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(1480510)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 11:39:01 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 06:10:48 2017.

A WF might confuse migratory birds at Floyd Bennett.

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(1480511)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 12:08:30 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 11:26:23 2017.

Robert Moses was the patron saint of the '64 fair, and he made sure it was bland and uplifting. Everything was expensive and the exhibits were anodyne. No equivalent of the Trylon & Perisphere; no NCR building, whose "cash register" showed the daily fair attendance. No breathtaking diorama like FUTARAMA* -- railfan that I am, I would have loved that.

And the entertainment - feh. For the adults, there was no equivalent of Bill Rose's adult shows, with partly naked women.

So thanks, but no thanks. I wouldn't despoil any parkland for this.

*Before someone says "what about the New York City diorama?", that was a holdover from the '39 Fair, and is still there.


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(1480515)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 12:27:26 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 12:08:30 2017.

But without Moses, any future fair might be less bland.

Moses prevented the fair from having a midway, a common feature of World's Fairs, because he was opposed to those kinds of "common" amusements. He hated Coney Island. I'm sure that part of the reason he moved the Aquarium to Coney Island (besides revenge for the Battery Bridge, he could have moved it somewhere besides CI), is because an educational aquarium was better in his mind than some amusement park.

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(1480523)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 13:55:02 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 12:27:26 2017.

You might be right but I'd still pass, partly because they lose money as you say, and they rarely leave anything of value behind.

And yes, Moses boasted of hating Coney Island and loved the idea of an Aquarium forestalling any other development, ironically on the old Dreamland property. I'm not sure of Moses's direct involvement, but Luna Park, in a prime location, became high-rise housing.

In an odd way Steeplechase had a better fate, but only in the long run. Fred Trump destroyed it and never got to build housing, and now we at least have a minor league ball field, the B&B Carousell and we still have the Parachute Jump.

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(1480564)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 15:46:31 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 13:55:02 2017.

You might be right but I'd still pass, partly because they lose money as you say, and they rarely leave anything of value behind.

Not if you do some forward thinking. After all, many (all?) displays/statues and buildings in Flushing Meadows are holdovers from previous World's Fairs. Without them, the park wouldn't have nearly as much historical character.

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(1480566)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 15:49:46 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by ftgreeneg on Fri Dec 8 10:56:14 2017.

Even Sunnyside may be an issue then - you have to account for the peak load of cars, mass transit or not.

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(1480569)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 15:56:53 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 15:46:31 2017.

That's a lot of money to be spent for the mostly pedestrian remnants of former fairs. Except for the New York City Building and the forgettable Unisphere, what do you have in mind?

It might have been useful if they had left the "World's Fair Railroad" in place. The R or M would have something useful to do east of Forest Hills.

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(1480586)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 16:35:04 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 15:56:53 2017.

The R or M would have been useful, but RM wouldn't have it!

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Catfish 44 on Fri Dec 8 17:25:08 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 09:29:12 2017.

With FB's proximity to Broad Channel you can believe there would be a problem. Never mind the fact it's a national park. I don't think an event like a WF would be permitted.

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 18:27:07 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Dec 8 16:35:04 2017.

Good play on letters.

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 18:48:02 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by SLRT on Fri Dec 8 15:56:53 2017.

Forgettable? The Unisphere is iconic to Flushing Meadows!

As another example of reuse, the Queens Science Museum is also a former pavilion(s). The helipad is now a restaurant, I believe, but it's still a useable structure.

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(1480728)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Dave on Sat Dec 9 18:45:27 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 18:48:02 2017.

Terrace on the Park.


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(1480743)

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Re: Wo d F ir

Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Dec 9 19:50:13 2017, in response to Re: Wo d F ir, posted by 3-9 on Fri Dec 8 18:48:02 2017.

Queens Theater on the Park was built around and integrates the old Cyclorama theater.

The original Louis Armstrong Stadium at the BJK NTC was the Singer Bowl.

The Queens Museum of Art was the NYC Pavilion in both fairs and the only building to survive the 1939 fair. The only other structure from both fairs was the Aquacade, which was torn down in the 1990s due to decay.

The Unisphere is the symbol of Queens like the Brooklyn Bridge is the symbol of Brooklyn or the Verrazano Bridge is the symbol of Staten Island.

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