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The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016 Gerbers World on the three independent presidential candidatesI like McMullin |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 10:17:12 2016, in response to The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016. Thinking out loud, I'm not so sure I consider a vote for someone other than Clinton and Trump to be totally throwing away your vote. Yes, you won't change the 2016 election, but in many to most states voters already know which way the state is going to go anyway so even voting for one of the "top 2" is throwing it away. You may make your voice more greatly known as a voter by introducing competition to the two-party system that could potentially escalate and have influence on future elections.Having it all be about two finalists from two parties is more suggestive of final-round championship series in sports than the unfolding of a democratic process to be proud of. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 20 11:55:48 2016, in response to The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016. A good GOP ticket would have been McMullin/Weld.Unfortunately, primary voters chose 2 lunatics out of 17 that could never beat a Democrat: Trump, then Cruz. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 20 11:57:18 2016, in response to The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016. Is McMullin on the ballot in 50 states ?He'll do great in Utah, maybe Idaho, which also has a lot of Mormons, but I don't know anout anywhere else. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 12:15:19 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Joe V on Thu Oct 20 11:57:18 2016. I listed on the blog post that McMullin is on the ballot in only about two dozen states, both traditional and write-in ballots. |
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Re: The forgettable independents in the President race |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 20 12:22:15 2016, in response to The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016. Especially his wanting to keep the US in the UN? How about his support of the PATRIOT Act, or his position on "anchor babies"? |
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| (1399050) | |
Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 12:30:55 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 10:17:12 2016. We had competition against the two party system - - Ross "I am all ears" Perot ran against the heavyweights, Bill Clinton and George Bush Sr. in 1992. Otherwise, we all know that no independent in the 20th century won the popular and/or electoral vote. |
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| (1399057) | |
Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 12:57:41 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 12:30:55 2016. But if you could get a growing significant percentage of people away from the two leading parties, especially in swing states, it requires those two parties to reform / adapt more than perhaps they ordinarily would. They would probably still go on winning for the foreseeable future, but their strategies would have to be different. They would have to stand up for themselves more rather than just bash the other, since there would be multiple "others" to the very end.Plus the fact that having more than two parties would naturally reduce any potential for a civil war, violent or otherwise. It's a bad idea to categorize hundreds of millions of people into only two types, even on a spectrum. It's the unfolding results of this bad idea which is why everywhere you go people are shaking their heads over the election situation in general and why we have many home-front problems awaiting regardless of this year's victor. If the worry is that one candidate wouldn't get half the votes with a three or four leading parties, and the people don't want it taken out of their hands, then call for an amendment to that policy. |
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| (1399060) | |
Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 20 13:15:05 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by New Flyer #857 on Thu Oct 20 12:57:41 2016. So do you believe that the Democrats in Maine have benefited from Paul LePage being their governor? If you want to have third parties, then you should have preferential voting, or runoffs. The current system only means that if one of the two major parties has a third party opposition, but the other side is consolidated, then that other side will keep winning elections despite most people being against it. The best way for your third party block to get anything is to join one of the main parties and work from within.Bernie Sanders will have had a much bigger impact on the future of this country than Jill Stein or Gary Johnson. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Thu Oct 20 16:54:35 2016, in response to The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Wakefield-241st Street on Thu Oct 20 07:31:02 2016. That list is much smaller than what it normally is.But Obama/Alinsky/whatever the terrorist name was are all right. 3rd parties are stupid. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 20 13:15:05 2016. It's losing the battle to win the war. And it works - people who vote straight down party lines are completely irrelevant. A good chunk of Democrats would still vote Hillary if it came out that she tortures cats in her spare time "Well I love cats, but Donald Trump is just so darn evil! </excuse>". There is no need to keep them happy. I don't even need to come up with the Trump equivalent because despite having said so many horrible things (to the point where even Putin dropped his support), he still has a good amount of support from the 'Murican sheeple.Pick your fringe and go with it, whether it be free college, universal healthcare, legal weed or a taco truck on every corner. The party bean counters will notice your vote and construct the party platform around it to try and snag it. |
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| (1399159) | |
Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Fri Oct 21 01:09:16 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016. New HavenE-harmony Brentwood Tony G #fatfeminism All reasons I won't vote for Hillary. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by alm on Fri Oct 21 05:56:09 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016. If Hillary Clinton were proven to be a torturer of cats (with all that implies for her personality) you could persuade me to vote for Gary Johnson. Trump isn't evil but he is as as much of a danger to this country as a cat torturer. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Fri Oct 21 07:03:12 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016. you are correct about those who vote straight down Democrat or straight down Republican. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 08:37:41 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016. Four years of Trump isn't a lost battle, it's a lost war. Reasonable people will sacrifice things that they want to avert a catastrophe. |
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Re: The forgettable independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Oct 21 09:42:34 2016, in response to Re: The forgettable independents in the President race, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Oct 20 12:22:15 2016. or his position on "anchor babies"?Yeah, his believing what the Fourteenth Amendment actually says makes him absolutely unfit for the Presidency of the United States. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Oct 21 09:46:39 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Fri Oct 21 00:39:22 2016. The American general election IS the war. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Fri Oct 21 09:49:08 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by alm on Fri Oct 21 05:56:09 2016. Trump isn't evil but he is as as much of a danger to this country as a cat torturer.Ron Paul or Jill Stein are not evil but would endanger this country and the world. Trump is actually evil. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 21 21:53:45 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Oct 20 13:15:05 2016. Not if another party can get legally recognized as a "major party" in many or most states. That's why I'm voting for Gary Johnson and the Libertarian Party. And considering that they are taking votes from both of the major parties, you can't really say that they are splitting one "side" and leaving the other united. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Oct 21 22:16:42 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 21 21:53:45 2016. Not gonna happen. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Oct 22 23:35:05 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 21 21:53:45 2016. Vote HRC so Trump will know that bullshit will not stand. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 22 23:37:22 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by TerrApin Station on Sat Oct 22 23:35:05 2016. Help us Hillary Rodham Clinton you're our only hope. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 23 09:40:43 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 22 23:37:22 2016. Even in NY Clinton votes are critical to combatting the "it was rigged" theme. If the electoral college is close, the more popular votes she wins by the less the rigged theme will resonate. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Oct 21 21:53:45 2016. This is the safest election in history to vote third party - Trump not only steered his campaign towards the iceberg, he personally went below deck to blow some extra holes in the hull. There are polls showing a 92% probability of Hillary winning.I'm voting Gary to get the Libertarians some funding. If they reach a certain threshold in a major election they are eligible for state funding and guaranteed place on the ballot in minor elections, which would be a game changer in future elections. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 14:35:17 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016. McMullin has a good chance of winning Utah. If he, rather than Johnson, were at the top of that ticket with Weld, they'd be a threat to Trump in other states too. |
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| (1399415) | |
Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 23 14:48:47 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016. This is the safest election in history to vote third partyGlad you live in NY. Suppose some people change their minds in the last minute AND the polls are off by 4%. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 23 15:50:21 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016. This is the most DANGEROUS election in which to vote third party. In 2000, Nader voters handed the election to George W. Bush. Here, third party voters could hand the election to DONALD TRUMP! |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 17:44:56 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 23 15:50:21 2016. Well in Utah, McMullin may land himself that state's electoral votes. That keeps Trump further away from 270. That is the best you can hope for in Utah. Never in a million years would they vote for Hillary or any Democrat. All 4 House seats have a chunk of Salt Lake City also. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 07:52:20 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 23 15:50:21 2016. I consider both dangerous for completely different reasons, so for me there is no choice. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 07:59:28 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 07:52:20 2016. Trump is more dangerous than Clinton. With Clinton you might get someone whom you disagree with politically. With Trump you get a dangerously unqualified loose cannon. |
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Re: The forgettable independents in the President race |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 24 09:06:12 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016. I'm voting Gary to get the Libertarians some fundingThen you're voting for antisemites. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:50:05 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Oct 23 14:28:10 2016. I'm voting Gary to get the Libertarians some fundingThe Libertarian Party getting Government funding. How principled. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:50:58 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Joe V on Sun Oct 23 14:35:17 2016. Johnson is much more qualified than McMullin to lead the Federal government, |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 09:52:59 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by AlM on Sun Oct 23 14:48:47 2016. There is an important reason to vote for Hillary in a non-swing state: The bigger her popular vote margin of victory, the less the "rigged" rhetoric will fly. Sure, there will be some malcontents who will believe that the election was rigged, but no reasonable person will believe them.The Trumpenproletariat could have gone for reasonable attacks on Obama's policies but they're too stupid to understand, so they instead used spurious attacks on his legitimacy. Clinton's father wasn't born in Kenya, so they don't have that line of attack, so they're gearing up to attack her based on a claim that she wasn't really elected. But as her margin of victory keeps rising, it becomes clear that won't work. I predict that they'll stick to the health angle and pretend that she's too sick to govern and actually controlled by puppet-masters. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 09:53:43 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:50:58 2016. However, McMullin has a much higher chance of being our next president (maybe 0.5% vs. less than 0.1% for Johnson). |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:58:04 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 09:53:43 2016. Trump has an even higher chance than McMullin of being President even though he's the least qualified of all of them. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 09:58:52 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 09:52:59 2016. The bigger her popular vote margin of victory, the less the "rigged" rhetoric will fly.Heh. I beat you to it on that one. :) Yeah, it won't do them any good to claim she stole PA if she also wins FL and NC, and probably OH and AZ too. The "too sick to govern" isn't going to fly very well. I'm sure after the election she'll have an quite stressful 2-hour press conference which will show that she is quite able to deal with difficult people. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 09:59:13 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:58:04 2016. IAWTP. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 17:26:27 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 07:59:28 2016. It's hard to agree or disagree with Hillary because she has her "public" and "private" views. I also think the dangerous precedent of electing a manipulative criminal outweighs the small chance of getting four years of nutball. I also refuse to vote for someone because of fear of their opponent - that's a fundamentally stupid way to think which got us into this mess in the first place. And, if enough of us "spoil" the vote, maybe, just maybe, you strategic voters will have to change your tune.I also know that Trump has lost way, way, way too much support to actually be a threat at this point. So, third party. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 17:59:14 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 17:26:27 2016. Trump is insane, period.Clinton has private & public opinions. I'll go by her voting record. I don't care if she grits her teeth should she vote to oppose TPP when she really loves it, or whatever the issue. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 18:02:23 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by SMAZ on Mon Oct 24 09:50:05 2016. Just practical. When you're starting 10 lengths behind in the race, why kneecap the horse? |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:05:01 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 17:59:14 2016. What makes you think that once she wins the election she won't go back to supporting TPP?NOTE: I support TPP and hope she goes back to supporting it once the election is over. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:10:42 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:05:01 2016. It is too obvious a campaign issue that Bernie pushed her into doing.Her double stance is costing her Ohio. She wants to win Ohio in 2020. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 18:24:39 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 17:26:27 2016. I also think the dangerous precedent of electing a manipulative criminal outweighs the small chance of getting four years of nutball.Precedent? LOL. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:35:07 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:10:42 2016. She doesn't need Ohio. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 18:38:45 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:35:07 2016. Yes. As 538 points out, Ohio is now more Republican leaning than the country as a whole. In 2012 it was slightly more Democratic leaning than the country as a whole. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:41:49 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:35:07 2016. True this time, but it is risky for the Democrat not to get it because more often than not, when the Republican wins Ohio, they win the Presidency. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:42:59 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by AlM on Mon Oct 24 18:38:45 2016. They have a popular Governor and US Senator. The latter is going to win in 2 weeks. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Oct 24 18:45:15 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Joe V on Mon Oct 24 18:41:49 2016. I don't agree. Ohio may well have lost its bellwether status.As Maine goes, so goes the Nation. |
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Re: The forgotten independents in the President race |
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Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Mon Oct 24 19:04:44 2016, in response to Re: The forgotten independents in the President race, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Mon Oct 24 17:26:27 2016. this election is a horror |
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