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| Who prefers Sanders to Hillary (1368405) | |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 23 13:11:20 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. Yes (not me). |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 13:16:47 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Mon May 23 13:11:20 2016. Are you going to rat him out? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon May 23 13:35:38 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. Not me though I have a friend who is nonstop with the #dropouthillary movement. More of the people I know who voted for Sanders in the primary will vote for Hillary in the general because they dislike Trump more and remember how Nader voters adversely affected Gore in 2000 |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Mon May 23 13:39:23 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by mtk52983 on Mon May 23 13:35:38 2016. nader did not cause gore to loose in 2000the votes were not counted |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 13:43:49 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by mtk52983 on Mon May 23 13:35:38 2016. remember how Nader voters adversely affected Gore in 2000Don't be so sure. I voted for Nader in 2000 and had no intention of voting for Gore. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon May 23 14:05:49 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. I do, but I would still vote for Clinton in the general election. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by R30A on Mon May 23 14:09:44 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Mon May 23 14:05:49 2016. Me too. Slight preference, fine with both. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 15:18:17 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 13:43:49 2016. would you have done the same had you been living in a Swing State like Florida? |
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| (1368483) | |
Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:21:49 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 13:16:47 2016. No need to rat him out. He's made it evident in numerous posts. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 15:26:20 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:21:49 2016. Nilet? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:28:38 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 15:18:17 2016. I didn't live in a swing state, so I can't say. But I will say I will never again vote for someone simply as a protest. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Mon May 23 15:31:09 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:28:38 2016. Yes, that is as bad as not voting, as they don't have a chance of winning at all. Like it or not, in this sort of an election, where it literally is the lesser of two evils worse than ever before (considering that Sanders will probably be out soon, and it's going to be Hillary and Trump), you have to finally come to the realization that ONE of them is GOING to be president, so pick one. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:47:33 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 15:26:20 2016. Him, RIPTA, and another person who has been posting today but doesn't seem to want to participate in this thread. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:50:14 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:28:38 2016. But I will say I will never again vote for someone simply as a protest.It only makes sense if you truly have no preference as to which of the major candidates gets elected, or if there's absolutely no doubt who will win. I've done it a handful of times in such a case. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:53:55 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:50:14 2016. No, because after the election Nader made some really stupid statements (IMO, of course) and I didn't like thinking I gave him a vote.I still could consider a write-in for someone I could believe in, like Frank Zappa. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 16:13:04 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:53:55 2016. I wrote in "Barack H. Obama" in the 2012 Republican primary. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon May 23 16:22:57 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 16:13:04 2016. You're an idiot! |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Mon May 23 16:51:02 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 15:53:55 2016. after the election Nader made some really stupid statementsI don't think any statement Nader made can rival in stupidity with the statement that was implicit in his campaign. I am running to push forward a very liberal agenda. And if it turns out that I draw enough votes away from Gore to get Bush elected, that is fine with me and not my problem. You don't have to be a liberal to see that as a really stupid point of view. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 17:48:20 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. I actually liked Sanders in the very beginning. Until he started fleshing out details of what he had in mind. Realized early on that he really didn't have anything workable. I still wish we had some other choices. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 18:03:48 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 17:48:20 2016. Realized early on that he really didn't have anything workable.How is free public college not workable? How is extending Medicare to all as a public option not workable? How is breaking up huge banks that pose systemic risk to the entire financial system not workable? Sanders may be the wrong person to implement such things but these should be the projects of EVERY Democratic candidate. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:28:37 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 18:03:48 2016. Do you REALLY think he'd be able to get congress to go along with any of that? Otherwise, I'd agree on all those positions and we need to get there, but Bernie's way isn't going to lead them to the watering hole. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 23 18:39:20 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 18:03:48 2016. Those are all good ideas.Sanders doesn't know how to get any of that done. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:53:17 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 23 18:39:20 2016. An THERE'S the rub. He made it to the platform committee (I was hoping for that) and hopefully those ideas can now be made workable. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon May 23 19:05:35 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon May 23 18:39:20 2016. Nor does he seem to recognize that the all need to be handled incrementally, so as to cause the least disruption to existing systems. Ideas like opening Medicare as a public option are needed. Phasing it in will enable it to happen while enablng a smoother transition for the medical care industry and insurance industry, as they wind out of major medical and transistion to "gap" policies, dental and other products they probably haven't thought up yet. This, BTW was the original idea the late Sen Kennedy had for insurance reform. What we got, ACA, was the republican plan. Which turns out to be better than what the republican plan became....die quickly.....To do this suddenly would really screw the economy up. Same thing with education, first we should work on getting some community college tuition free. Then we can work on full four undergrad programs in public universities. Bernie has the right ideas, but no means or concept of how to get things done. "When you stand up and say we need a revolution and nothing happens, chances are you're not the one who's going to lead that revolution when it comes". |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Mon May 23 19:05:38 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. i think he is bettereven though i have disagreements with sanders |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Mon May 23 19:37:55 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 17:48:20 2016. iawtp |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon May 23 22:50:31 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Mon May 23 19:05:35 2016. the[y] all need to be handled incrementally,Just how long will this incremental transition take? cause the least disruption to existing systems. Which existing systems should not be disrupted? Under employment? Infrastructure decay? Regime change? Poverty level minimum wage? Exorbitant drug prices? first we should work on getting some community college tuition free. Then we can work on full four undergrad programs in public universities. That's a prescription for perpetual stagnation. Starting with the most difficult and working towards the easy problems is a better plan. If the most difficult problem cannot be solved, then solving the easiest won't mean very much. Here are the numbers regarding higher education. 60% are in 4 year colleges and 40% are in 2 year colleges. Assuming yearly tuition costs are the same, 75% of tuition costs lie with 4 year colleges. Solve the 4 year problem and the 2 year addition is trivial. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Mon May 23 23:43:10 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Mon May 23 22:50:31 2016. That's not my call. These are just ideas. I'm not running for office.They cannot disrupt the existing system of insurance based medical care, which is one of the major reasons ACA happened the way it did. Change so much as the billing codes for a procedure and they're stymied for weeks. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 00:00:32 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Mon May 23 23:43:10 2016. That's not my call. [how long incremental change will take?] These are just ideas. I'm not running for office.Sounds like the smaller the increments and the longer the transition, the better you like it. They cannot disrupt the existing system of insurance based medical care, which is one of the major reasons ACA happened the way it did. Change so much as the billing codes for a procedure and they're stymied for weeks. ACA became law in 2010. It will not become fully implemented until 2022. That's a 12 year period of perpetual change. However, an abrupt change that lasts weeks is intolerable because it will disrupt the existing insurance based system. The existing insurance based system is to be replaced by Medicare for all. Why can't the existing insurance based system be disrupted? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 00:54:45 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 00:00:32 2016. Everyone should want the systems in place to be as stable as possible during the change. The way we delive medical care, billing for a procedure or medication, if changed too abruptly, can cause wrong or insufficient care to be delivered. Nobody wants that. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 01:07:30 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SMAZ on Mon May 23 18:03:48 2016. How is free public college not workable?Free college like in Germany, or free college like everybody gets free Harvard and Duke? The former is achievable, but we wouldn't like how it plays out when there's waiting lists, higher standards for entry, and there's no more Division I sports. The latter would be absurdly expensive, and I don't think the flagship colleges and private schools want to see federal interference in their budgets and operations. How is extending Medicare to all as a public option not workable? It's probably workable if you scale up the premiums on an income basis, but given doctors complaints of what Medicare pays them, I don't know if they'd want more Medicare patients. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Tue May 24 01:08:18 2016, in response to Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SLRT on Mon May 23 12:53:01 2016. I preferred Sanders to Hillary. But honestly none of them really did it for me wish the democrats had a deeper field. However Hillary has my vote if she wins the primary. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 01:20:09 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 01:07:30 2016. Medicare has been horribly squeezed the past few decades, blaming fraud for the cutbacks. And those cutbacks affected the ability to investigate fraud more than any other portion of the agency. Seems those who have been doing the budget cutting don't WANT the fraud cut. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 01:21:14 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by ftgreeneg on Tue May 24 01:08:18 2016. That's pretty much what it's coming down to. I agree completely. Last thing this planet or this nation needs is Trumpistas swaggering about with a large dose of stupid. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Tue May 24 01:43:24 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 01:21:14 2016. Yup definitely an anyone but Trump election. That would do the whole planet a favor. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue May 24 02:21:15 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AEM-7AC #901 on Tue May 24 01:07:30 2016. I clearly wrote PUBLIC colleges.As for Medicare, it would be just another insurance choice on the Exchanges with the same type of income-based tax credits used for purchase of private insurance. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue May 24 02:25:43 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by ftgreeneg on Tue May 24 01:08:18 2016. LOL! |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 24 04:43:47 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by AlM on Mon May 23 15:47:33 2016. Who, me? I was working! Then I watched wrestling. I prefer Crazy Bernie over Crooked Hillary due to my personal dislike of her and her grimy ways. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 24 04:46:55 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:28:37 2016. NOTHING is free. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 24 04:54:10 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by BILLBKLYN on Tue May 24 04:46:55 2016. Of course not. But those who shape up for work every day shouldn't be getting fucked over royally by Wall Street. Remember the middle class? No more. Ever wonder why? Wages and benefits have been gutted. Back when the rich were scared shitless of commies, the unions at least lead the way to better wages an working conditions. Not any more. They're gone and just look at what's happened since a raise every now and then at work is communism.Remember when you were good to go with just a high school diploma? What was the tuition fees for that again? Now you need a doctorate just to cook hamburgers. I ain't no commie, but geez ... have we given them enough cock suck yet? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 24 07:22:36 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by ftgreeneg on Tue May 24 01:08:18 2016. The Republicans had a "deep field." Fat lot of good it did them. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 07:56:50 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 00:54:45 2016. There's been an open source medical data management system around for 50 years. It's called MUMPS (Massachusetts General Hospital Utility Multi-Programming System) or sometimes M. It's widely but not universally used.Each insurance company, hospital, medical software company decided to go their own proprietary way. The result is hundreds different medical record systems are in use. The reason is people saw profit in developing their own systems to raise their cost base and their fees. These systems have no common data interchange mechanism. The result is the expensive and continuing chaos we have today. One ACA weakness was promoting electronic health records but not writing tight, rigorous technical specs for qualifying systems. The result is electronic health records have not and will not provide the cost savings and medical improvements that it does in other countries. A single payer system is one way to eliminate this wasteful, duplicative system. It's not the only path. Many countries implement universal health care through insurance companies. However, the companies are strictly regulated regarding coverage, record keeping, reimbursements and fees. The insurance companies compete with each other in the customer service sector. The physician and hospital costs for using these open source medical records programs in these countries is nominal compared to what has happened here. There is one system per country so data interchange is fairly simple. It's been around in the EU for at least 30 years. The software to accomplish the same task in the US is expensive because there are many more data systems that require interfacing. This is the system for whose abrupt demise you urge caution. Is there a similar "abrupt change" restriction on insurance companies vis-a-vis their customers? Nope. Insurance companies are still free to change coverage or get out of the business with little notice. Caveats: Curt Marble was a classmate and we lived in the same dorm. I was interested in the medical records problem in the late 1960's. I've watched with dismay the sad history of how this means for potential cost savings and health care improvements was perverted by corporate greed. My mother's Medicare Advantage policy was terminated with 30 days notice. It was mid way through her first major illness. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by AlM on Tue May 24 08:14:56 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue May 24 07:22:36 2016. The Republicans had an absurd delegate allocation system. I believe the Democrats learned their lesson about excessive winner-take-most allocation after 1972. The Republicans have taken a while longer to learn. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 08:54:24 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by SelkirkTMO on Mon May 23 18:28:37 2016. Do you REALLY think he'd be able to get congress to go along with any of that?Yes because he knows he won't be nor should he try to be popular with everyone. He knows who should not like him. This puts him at an advantage over presidents who need to be liked by everyone. This weakness has caused Obama to fold to soon, when he faced opposition. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:04:50 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue May 24 07:56:50 2016. You don't have to tell me about weaknesses and problems in ACA. They're real. However, that by no means alone is reason to throw it out. Going back to nothing like the Donald Trump republicans propose endangers millions.It needs a lot of work, and that public option phasein that Hillary Clinton has proposed. |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue May 24 09:05:48 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:04:50 2016. Wrong |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:52:42 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue May 24 09:05:48 2016. Meaning? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue May 24 09:57:26 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:52:42 2016. You use that precise reply several times daily. How can you not know the meaning? |
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Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue May 24 09:59:15 2016, in response to Re: Who prefers Sanders to Hillary, posted by R2ChinaTown on Tue May 24 09:57:26 2016. iwhen I use it, it's followed with elaboration. You, not at all. |
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