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Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid"

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016

fiogf49gjkf0d
NY Times Live

Obama’s mosque visit demonstrates tacit acceptance of a form of gender apartheid

To Muslim women’s rights activists fighting for equal access to mosques as part of a broader campaign for reform, President Obama’s visit to the Islamic Society of Baltimore represents a step backwards

By Asra Q. Nomani and Ify Okoye
02.03.16
This past weekend, dozens of girls and boys as young as about 8 years old ran up the stairwell to the main entrance of the musallah, or main prayer hall, of the Islamic Society of Baltimore, where President Obama visits Wednesday in his first presidential visit to a U.S. mosque. As the children rounded the corner, a stern mosque Sunday school teacher stood before them, shouting, “Girls, inside the gym! Boys in the musallah.”

The girls, shrouded in headscarves that, in some cases, draped half their bodies, slipped into a stark gymnasium and found seats on bare red carpet pieces laid out in a corner. They faced a tall industrial cement block wall, in the direction of the qibla, facing Mecca, a basketball hoop above them. Before them a long narrow window poured a small dash of sunlight into the dark gym.

On the other side of the wall, the boys clamored excitedly into the majestic musallah, their feet padded by thick, decorated carpet, the sunlight flooding into the room through spectacular windows engraved with the 99 names of Allah, or God, in Islam. Ornate Korans and Islamic books filled shelves that lined the front walls.

As President and Michelle Obama argued decades ago in the context of the U.S. civil rights movement, separate is indeed unequal. To Muslim women’s rights activists fighting for equal access to mosques as part of a broader campaign for reform — from equal education for women and girls to freedom from so-called “honor killings” — the president’s visit to a mosque that practices such blatant inequity represents a step backwards. While it may be meant to convey a message of religious inclusiveness to American Muslims, the visit demonstrates tacit acceptance of a form of discrimination that amounts to gender apartheid. For that reason, we will be standing outside the mosque on Johnnycake Road, as close as the Secret Service allows, to protest the separate and unequal standards inside and advocate for equal rights.

We believe it is the role of government to protect women’s rights within religion, if a place of worship gets federal nonprofit benefits, just as it protects civil rights in the secular space. Places of worship in the U.S. would not be allowed tax-exempt status if, for example, they were to seat African Americans in segregated spaces. To condone the mosque’s gender segregation is particularly ironic coming days after the White House announced efforts to win equal pay for women and increased workplace benefits for women in the military.

President Obama should be aware that on any given day a woman or girl worshiping in the mosque would be dispatched away from the musallah where he will stand to speak out against “Islamophobia,” to the “prayer room for females,” as one worshiper described it. In much the same way that he wants to mitigate Americans seeing Muslims as the “other,” we have to challenge the Muslim systems that segregate women as the “other.” He should know that promoting women’s rights in mosques is a key part of fighting the ideology of extremism — a fight that he asked American Muslims to help wage in an address to the nation in December. A theology of Islamic feminism is our best answer to the extremism of ISIS, al-Qaeda and other Muslim militant groups. Even the most conservative of Islamic scholars acknowledge that, in the 7th century, the sunnah, or tradition of the prophet Muhammad, was to allow women to pray in the main hall of his mosque in Medina without any barrier in front of them.

“While the free world awaits a Muslim reformation, the leader of the free world shows blatant disregard for gender equality by visiting a mosque that treats females like second-class citizens,” says Raheel Raza, a Pakistani-Canadian activist, author and co-founder of the Muslim Reform Movement, a new initiative that we support, advocating for peace, women’s rights and secular governance. “This makes our work as activists extremely difficult because equality is one of the main tenets of our reform movement.”

The president has an opportunity to shine light in a place once associated with the darkest extremes of Islam. His motorcade will re-trace the path of al-Qaeda leader Anwar al-Awlaki: FBI surveillance notes document that al-Awlaki, then a local imam, drove down Johnnycake Road to enter the Islamic Society of Baltimore at 5:56 p.m. on the evening of November 11, 2001. (A copy of the notes was released under the Freedom of Information Act).

Today, in an estimated two-thirds of mosques around the United States, women and girls are segregated in dark basements, sparse balconies, separate rooms and even behind shower curtains in the “sisters’ section,” listening to Friday sermons piped in through shaky sound systems and watching them, if we are lucky, via TV screens. It’s too often only on “interfaith” occasions like the president’s visit that women and girls get to step forward into the “brothers’ section.”

Muslim Americans, like us, are not alone in pushing back against such discrimination. A movement of women and men within orthodox Judaism, Open Orthodoxy, is seeking to create greater equality in prayer space, religious leadership and educational roles. Synagogues, such as the National Synagogue in Washington, D.C., are begining to hire female religious leaders. (Reform movements within Catholicism, like the Women’s Ordination Conference, also question discriminatory practices).

Fourteen years ago, in the fall of 2003, Asra started challenging the rules at her hometown mosque in Morgantown, W.V., writing an opinion piece, “Going Where I Know I Belong.” Over the years, many women — and men — have come forward to challenge the inequities, arguing that they are not “Islamic,” but rather vestiges of cultural sexism. In Canada, film director Zarqa Nawaz produced a 2005 film, Me and the Mosque, exposing the injustices.

In early 2010, Fatima Thompson, then a member of the Islamic Society of Baltimore, dared to pray in the “men’s section” there, ignoring a man who tried to shoo her away. “I was never welcomed in that community,” she says.

That year, she started a movement that we, with other local women and men, joined to end gender segregation in mosques. We staged protests in the main prayer areas of mosques behind the men. Taking a page from the civil rights movement’s sit-in protests, we called ourselves “Pray In Protest.”

We dared to pray in the main halls of the Islamic Center of Washington, a flagship mosque on Massachusetts Avenue in D.C. largely run by the government of Saudi Arabia, and Dar-al Hijra, a mosque in Falls Church, Va., where al-Awlaki, the future al-Qaeda leader, preached and 9/11 hijackers prayed. Mosque officials called the police and had us evicted.

In late April 2010, Ify published photos from the Islamic Society of Baltimore, documenting the second-class conditions women endure in spaces akin to a “penalty box.” She showed women behind barriers and called her site, “A photoblog for change, in sha Allah,” or “God willing.” Later, Chicago activist Hind Makki published a blog, “Side Entrance,” with the squalid images of mosques from a woman’s perspective.

Last year, the Islamic Society of North America (ISNA) launched a campaign on “the inclusion of women in masjids,” or “mosques,” with other organizations like the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR), but, after over a decade of our protests, these organizations have failed to protect women’s access to prayer halls. In a tour Asra has taken of mosques in the Washington, D.C., area over the last several weeks, she has found herself, like other women and girls, relegated to subpar conditions.

“Go upstairs!” a man barked at her when she went into the main hall of Madina Islamic Center, a mosque in Springfield, Va. At Springfield’s Darul Huda mosque, in the separate “sisters’ room,” packed with the school’s children, a woman arbitrarily turned the TV screen off in the middle of the imam’s prayer. At the Islamic Circle of North America mosque in Alexandria, Va., Asra couldn’t even see the imam, or prayer leader, behind the strung-up curtain. At the Islamic Center of Washington, a staffer picked up the phone to call the police when Asra and other women prayed in the main hall. The staffer reconsidered at the last minute.

ISNA and the mosques didn’t return queries seeking comment. Corey Saylor, a spokesman for CAIR, said, “CAIR continues to advocate for women to have equal access in mosques. Until that goal is achieved, the initiative is not complete,” and he said that officials at the Islamic Society of Baltimore told CAIR there is “no policy in place preventing women from having access to the main area of the mosque.”

Of course, what we have experienced is very different. Why does this activism matter? Presence means voice. This week, in India, where women are typically denied access to mosques, a brave group of women have rightly filed a petition with the Supreme Court of India to reject clear policies of “discrimination” and allow women entry into all of the country’s government-funded mosques.

At the Islamic Society of Baltimore this past Sunday, the air was filled with the scent of Sherwin-Williams paint that workers were rolling onto the walls of the run-down balcony section where women and girls are usually segregated, unable to see the imam unless they peek over the balcony’s edge. A sign outside the door to the balcony said, “STOP Please. No Shoes. No Strollers. No Diaper Change. Beyond this point.”

Asra slipped into the mosque’s main hall to join the “halaqa,” or study circle. There, the study circle leader, teaching a half dozen men gathered around him, talked about the virtues of the first Muslim community in Medina, saying that a society isn’t “civilized” just because it’s technological.

Then, a young man, wearing a T-shirt emblazoned “Who Do You Love?” piped up, “So that means the West isn’t civilized.”

“That’s right,” the study circle leader said.

Another man railed against the West and its “atheists.”

Asra took a deep breath, listening to the sound of the crew white-washing the mosque for the president’s visit. “That’s a very unfair conclusion,” she said. “You are sitting in the West and railing against the West as not being civilized? It is not fair to make the assumption that the West ‘isn’t civilized.’”

The men tried to backtrack. They spoke with more nuance, before the study leader digressed again into the idea that those who aren’t Muslim act out of “self-interest,” while Muslims act out of an “order from God to do righteousness,” a point that Asra also politely refuted as motivated by “self-interest” and as an unfair representation of the many good people who aren’t Muslim.

As women and girls, we should be supported by policies that allow us to be part of such conversations. The president can support this urgent cause by speaking out against gender segregation in American mosques. In the spirit of the civil rights moment when whites stood with blacks, we hope men and women will refuse the privilege that “interfaith” events give them, and, in act of solidarity, stand outside with us on Johnnycake Road and the other pathways leading to the mosques in our world, advocating for equal rights for all.


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(1344049)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 01:52:50 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
thanks for threading about this.

Women are going to want to antagonize Islam and get men to fight that battle for them on the ground.

Not sure if this thread will be trolled by,

Will D
Dutuchrail
Joe V
WayneJay
JayZeeBMT
Selkirk
Kevin from Midwood
mitch45
FBklyn1959
WMATA
The Fred's
KGT


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(1344051)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 03:18:51 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 01:52:50 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, any who troll it will find themselves looking like misogynists, so it's at their own peril.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 03:33:01 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 03:18:51 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yeah.

They get all worked up when white males say something, but only women have the right to complain it seems.

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(1344057)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:01:19 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Gee ... you're an Adventist and well ...

Adventists usually practice communion four times a year. The communion is an open service that is available to members and Christian non-members. It commences with a foot washing ceremony, known as the "Ordinance of Humility", based on the Gospel account of John 13. The Ordinance of Humility is meant to symbolize Christ's washing of his disciples' feet at the Last Supper and to remind participants of the need to humbly serve one another. Participants segregate by gender to separate rooms to conduct this ritual, although some congregations allow married couples to perform the ordinance on each other and families are often encouraged to participate together. After its completion, participants return to the main sanctuary for consumption of the Lord's Supper, which consists of unleavened bread and unfermented grape juice.


And there's a couple of other religions that go even further in segregation, including walls to keep them from boffing each other, during services I suppose. Even when they're getting MARRIED. Care to take those on as well? Please stop pissing on your own shoes, thank you.



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(1344058)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:12:56 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 03:18:51 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Congrats! You went there! :)

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(1344059)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 04:16:50 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:01:19 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
nice trolling.

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(1344060)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:19:13 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 04:16:50 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Hey mon ... ees my yob! :)

But seriously ... glass houses, lulz.

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(1344061)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:26:50 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:01:19 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No, I'm not an Adventist. That was started by a woman, FTR.

So whose side are you on then, eh?

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(1344062)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:27:16 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 04:16:50 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No, it's a fail.

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(1344063)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:28:30 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:12:56 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I can't troll my own thread. And wouldn't if it were not my own.

But since you volunteered, you get yourself in trouble with the fairer sex now.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:35:40 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:26:50 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Whose side? Jesus', thank you. You've indicated in past posts that's where you came down on, apologies if I was mislead. That said though, do you REALLY think Islam is the only religion out there that considers women to be "unclean" and segregates them to another room, or a wall between them and the men?

So why pick on just *one* religion that does that then? Oh ... I get it. :-\

But you did come here to proudly post that as a personal coup ... merely pointing out that as always with right-wingers, your shit is tainted.

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(1344065)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:51:40 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:28:30 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Hardly ... If Mary Magdelene was good enough to be an apostle, and had a very close relationship with Jesus, then it would make sense for me to not want to apartheid women either any more than He did.

http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/saint.php?n=309

I do have an issue with other religions (including my own) doing so as far as my own values go. However, my values ALSO stand in letting other religions practice freely, and yes ... that includes MUSLIMS TOO.

Problem?

And for Luch: If Ann Coulter converted, she can serve mass too as far as I'm concerned. :)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 05:04:15 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 04:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Your troll? Yes. :)

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(1344068)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:39:12 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:51:40 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I was thinking Ann Coulter could be Catholic.

I know Laura Ingraham converted long ago.

Either way, I love it that feminazis are thinking about fucking with Islam. I hope they stick it to them :)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 05:44:38 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:39:12 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Here's hoping that they score against the other religions too ... I love watching irony ... :)

Here ya go ... read this, you'll get a giggle:

http://hollowverse.com/ann-coulter/

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:51:19 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 05:44:38 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
well with a first name like Ann, I figured she had some link to Catholicism.

Many great people don't associate with a Church. Rush Limbaugh never goes.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 06:03:33 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:51:19 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Neither did Reagan ... it's OK. :)

I just find this whole agitprop amusing, because the religions that ALSO do so are the ones pointing at the other guys. Gotta love it.

Ah well ... as long as it keeps us from talking about the banksters that screwed all of us by doing Frye with "take my money!" to the Chinese and are now wondering why it's 2007 all over again at their hands.

They COULD have invested in America. :(

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:32:10 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
So, then, the systematic exclusion of women fro dominant roles in other major religions gets a pass?

In certain Christian denominations, women may not be ordained, and in Judaism, women are subordinate to men in many ways, such as their inability to complete a minyan because of their gender.

You make it sound as though only Islam subjugates women, when other faiths, to varying degrees, also engage in these practices as a matter of doctrine.

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(1344075)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Feb 4 06:45:59 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Where is bingbong protecting women's rights ?

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(1344076)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Feb 4 06:48:31 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:32:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Lol, never saying how terrible something is just attempting to protect Islam. Have you seen how women are treated in Islam? Almost at as bad as they treat gays

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(1344077)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 06:50:56 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Feb 4 06:45:59 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Some get to sleep here and there. I guess life was easier when TV stations went off the air at night, even if it was to a test pattern. Those got boring and would actually PUT you to sleep. :)

Alas, cable came up with "Up All Night." Think of this thread like when Ren & Stimpy was on the air. You had to wait a whole WEEK for the next show, munching on olive loaf until you puked. Next show will be sooner than that ...



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(1344078)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:54:12 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Feb 4 06:48:31 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Where did I attempt to "protect Islam" in my post??? I never said I agreed with what Islamic law does to women, but, with so many people here singling Islam out, while failing to acknowledge that other religious also do many of the things they ridicule Islam for, well...

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:56:10 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by gp38/r42 chris on Thu Feb 4 06:48:31 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Oh, and if I made a post about a "radical synagogue", I would almost immediately be branded an "anti-Semite", no?

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Dave on Thu Feb 4 07:29:29 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:32:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
in Judaism, women are subordinate to men in many ways, such as their inability to complete a minyan because of their gender.

It has nothing to so with subordination, Nathan. Why do you opine on subjects you're unfamiliar with?

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 07:43:39 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Dave on Thu Feb 4 07:29:29 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Well, then, without plagiarizing anything, please enlighten me as to why women are unable to complete a minyan.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 4 08:28:18 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:54:12 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The scale is also something that you are forgetting. You are attempting to compare women not being able to be ordained, but do you see them forcing them to walk around in woolen prison gowns with just their eyes showing in desert climate?
Do you see them taking away their ability to drive, be seen alone in public with a non relative male (and stoned or worse if they are caught), or not even being able to leave the house without a male?
Let's not forget throwing people off the roofs of buildings, or burning them alive just to mention a few.
Yeah, very similar.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 4 08:29:58 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:56:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
No, I don't agree with the "radical" synagogue either, but again, it's the scale. Not to mention adding "radical" to it.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 08:37:13 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 4 08:28:18 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Hmmm...did you forget the recent Christian "Kill The Gays" rally hosted by anti-gay pastor Kevin Swanson, which featured speaking appearances by three GOP Presidential candidates?

What about the Christian nations of Uganda and Zaire, which make homosexuality a capital crime? Or Jamaica, where being gay is punishable by ten years' hard labor?

Oh, yeah, Only Islam is atrocious like that...

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by bingbong on Thu Feb 4 09:03:54 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:51:19 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Lardmouth is not a great person.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by bingbong on Thu Feb 4 09:41:57 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:32:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The only religion with some form of organization as perceived from a Western perspective that as doctrine states women are spiritual equals is Buddhism.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by bingbong on Thu Feb 4 09:46:11 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Feb 4 08:28:18 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
None of that is actually IN the Koran.

All religions dictate modesty in dress for both sexes. We're not supposed to display or genitals to the world. Is that a problem? I'd think those guys hung like hamsters would welcome the disguise.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Feb 4 09:57:25 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:32:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Absolutely true. How many other religions advocate stoning of a woman for being raped without an audience? How many religions prohibit a woman from going in public without a male relative? Ah but you are correct saying that women are subjugated in other religions.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by R2ChinaTown on Thu Feb 4 10:13:18 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 06:56:10 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Show me a synagogue that advocates stoning of women and I'll agree with you. On the other hand, your use of Jews as a counterpoint instead of, say Lutherins, perhaps, is quite suspicious, don't you think?

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:16:14 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
obama addressing his fellow muslims.

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:18:45 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:51:40 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d


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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:19:29 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by bingbong on Thu Feb 4 09:03:54 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Who's lardmouth?

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:19:59 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Feb 4 04:19:13 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Klutz.

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(1344103)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:21:15 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by LuchAAA on Thu Feb 4 05:39:12 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I was thinking Ann Coulter could be Catholic.

According to Wikipedia, he is a Presbyterian.


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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:28:24 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:21:15 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Typo in your post.

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(1344106)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:29:56 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:28:24 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
no typo.

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(1344107)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:32:31 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:29:56 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I was thinking Ann Coulter could be Catholic.

According to Wikipedia, (s)he is a Presbyterian

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(1344108)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:35:53 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:32:31 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Typo in your post.

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(1344109)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:37:12 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:35:53 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Let me look.

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(1344112)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Feb 4 11:08:30 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by SMAZ on Thu Feb 4 10:21:15 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Ann Coulter is expressing herself as a woman, whether she is cis- or transgender. So the correct pronouns to describe Ann Coulter are she, her, hers. Just my $0.02.

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(1344114)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Feb 4 11:10:07 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:37:12 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
What SMAZ is saying is that Ann Coulter is a man as evidenced by Ann's Adam's Apple, man hands, etc.

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(1344115)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 11:16:44 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by mtk52983 on Thu Feb 4 11:10:07 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
All without doing a genotype on her.

Democratic Underground (of all sites) on a 2005 thread is gracious and speculates that she may have Graves' Disease rather than be transgender.

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(1344116)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Feb 4 11:22:19 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 11:16:44 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Not taking a position but having heard the argument before I was trying to make Chicagomotorman less baffled

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by bingbong on Thu Feb 4 11:23:13 2016, in response to Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid'', posted by ChicagoMotorman on Thu Feb 4 10:19:29 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Rush lardmouth, who else? You don't know that? Lulz.

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(1344118)

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Re: Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of ''gender apartheid''

Posted by TonyG on Thu Feb 4 11:26:19 2016, in response to Women In The World: Obama's visit to radical Baltimore mosque shows approval of "gender apartheid", posted by Olog-hai on Thu Feb 4 01:27:16 2016.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Nobody's perfect.

Get over it.

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