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| Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's (1328587) | |
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Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 24 17:36:38 2015 Bezos acquires WMD's. Yeah, hit up the Times today. :)http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/25/science/space/blue-origins-rocket-launches-and-lands.html?_r=0 |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 00:51:08 2015, in response to Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 24 17:36:38 2015. Well, technically, it's closer to an IRBM, but close enough. :-)Maybe it's just me, but that shape is kind of, uhhh... :-) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 25 01:25:48 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 00:51:08 2015. It's Bezos' way of saying Happy Holidays. :)
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Nov 25 03:21:20 2015, in response to Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 24 17:36:38 2015. Hmm. And I just posted the other day that Van Horn TX was a fine place. :) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 25 03:33:18 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by AlM on Wed Nov 25 03:21:20 2015. Well there ya go. :) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by WillD on Wed Nov 25 10:03:49 2015, in response to Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Nov 24 17:36:38 2015. BO has really come on strong in the past year or so. They were playing a decided second fiddle to SpaceX's Falcon 9 and Dragon combo, with Musk even stealing their thunder about fully reusable two stage to orbit vehicles. We really hadn't heard much from BO at all But then this year ULA unexpectedly chose Blue Origin's BE4 LNG+LOX engine over the Aerojet-Rocketdyne AR-1 Kerolox engine for their new Vulcan launch vehicle. And now they've flown and recovered a stage from space. SpaceX has recovered a stage, and they've flown a stage in space, but so far recovering one of their first stages has eluded them.We could be on the verge of a revolution in spaceflight where the government contracts companies to provide transportation services. But despite the Commercial Resupply Services and Commercial Crew programs NASA otherwise stands squarely in the way of developing a real future for commercial spaceflight. But that of course is because to have commercial spaceflight companies flying to the Moon or even planning Mars trips would threaten NASA's "exploration" program and the gravy train for the Red states, and we can't have that. So instead we're stuck with NASA using the economies present in commercial spaceflight to ease the burden of the ISS, but any savings there are transferred to the SLS and Orion programs. We could probably return to the Moon within three years if we made a push to do it and provided commercial spaceflight companies even a quarter the funding we've pissed away on NASA's socialist programs to Red States. |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Nov 25 12:51:17 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by WillD on Wed Nov 25 10:03:49 2015. Bit of an overkill to achieve on time delivery, IMO. :-) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Nov 25 13:05:28 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by WillD on Wed Nov 25 10:03:49 2015. If we got to the moon again, what would we do there? |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 14:03:23 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by AlM on Wed Nov 25 13:05:28 2015. Collect moon rocks and sell them on eBay to pay for the moon trip. :-) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 14:17:55 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 25 01:25:48 2015. Hehe. Aside from the shape, that ship is something worthy of Gerry Anderson, RIP. :-) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 25 15:51:03 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 14:17:55 2015. Ah ... Fireball! Missed that entirely. :) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Nov 25 15:59:32 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by 3-9 on Wed Nov 25 14:03:23 2015. It'll be even bigger than the original! :)
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by WillD on Thu Nov 26 08:50:34 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by AlM on Wed Nov 25 13:05:28 2015. Go there to stay, or at least visit for longer periods, and answer some of the questions Apollo created. For example how common is the Orange volcanic soil found by Apollo 17 and what is its significance? What caused the flashes seen by orbiting crews? Is Aristarchus still actively volcanic, or are there other explanations for what appear to be eruptions from that area? And then there are the questions we didn't know to ask in 1969. We can see holes in the lunar surface which may be the collapsed roofs of lava tubes which may be large enough that they could be sealed off and inhabited as relatively cheap, likely radiation proof lunar colonies. But the big questions to arise since 1972 would relate to the quantity and quality of the water locked up in the polar craters. Utilizing that resource could make it far cheaper to maintain a moon base and indeed to support a solar system wide exploration program.Back here on Earth, ditching NASA's contractor welfare approach to spaceflight (as exemplified by the Space Launch System) and breaking its payloads up into multiple flights on existing vehicles (or at least commercially developed vehicles) would not just make exploration cheaper, the economies of scale would mean every other space launch would become cheaper. All the vital satellites in Earth orbit providing weather, communications, navigation, and early warning services would become cheaper to launch because instead of us launching four rockets from each manufacturer we might launch a dozen or two from each manufacturer. Tripling or sextupling our launch rate may sound expensive, but NASA is already spending much of that money developing a rocket with no missions, no payload, and no commercial applications. We could get far more for our money by spending it flying rather than studying the possibility of flying in 20 or so years. Keep in mind I'm not counting on reusability here. But as Blue and SpaceX show partial reusability is a very real possibility, and even ULA is planning to do partial with their next generation Vulcan rocket. The economics of resuable rockets look a lot better in comparison with expendables when there is a high flight rate, so it's possible that in a competitive environment reusables will win out and deliver the savings the Shuttle failed to provide. And of course if you have a reduction in launch costs due to a high flight rate, reusability, or both, then the loss of a satellite isn't as much of a killer for the operator, so satellites can be made less expensive. There is a feedback mechanism which we saw in the 1960s when flights on repurposed ICBMs were relatively cheap and spaceflight was accordingly low cost despite its cutting edge status. But that has disappeared since the 1970s. I wouldn't say we're going to get to the point where Spaceflight is cheap, but by choosing to return to the moon in a manner that maximizes the benefit here on earth we can certainly make better use of our existing investment. I'd argue that means going to the moon and sustaining a presence there. The actual outlay of funds by the government could well be less than for the ISS, but the impact could be far greater. Unfortunately NASA's current program of record stand squarely in opposition to anything like these ideas. |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 26 09:14:32 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by WillD on Thu Nov 26 08:50:34 2015. I want to see a mission to the far side. And a far side radio telescope. |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Nov 27 13:28:39 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Nov 26 09:14:32 2015. It's interesting, the ESA has argued for a lunar farside base, which Olog ridiculed, for the specific purpose of setting up a radio telescope there. But putting the primary lunar base on the far side would begin to threaten the radio silence that is the reason we're putting the radio telescope there. The radio traffic from a communications satellite in an Earth-Moon Lagrange point halo orbit could interfere with the operation of the telescope. IMHO while missions to the farside would be worthwhile, any base should either be at the poles or on the near side. |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 27 15:59:26 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by WillD on Fri Nov 27 13:28:39 2015. How would a far side radio telescope communicate with earth? Would they run cable around to the pole or to some point around 90° longitude? Or put up relay towers? |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Nov 27 17:16:25 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 27 15:59:26 2015. FiOS. :) |
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Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's |
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Posted by WillD on Fri Nov 27 18:39:04 2015, in response to Re: Amazon now ready to strike eBay with ICBM's, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Nov 27 15:59:26 2015. Presumably with the same sort of EML2 halo orbit commsat relaying messages around the moon. But with those satellites only having to handle data to or from the telescope, as opposed to everything from a lunar base the impact on the radio telescope may be greatly reduced. They could even suspend communications while the radio telescope performs observations to avoid interfering with the resulting data, then transmit that data once the observations have been completed. It likely would not be possible to suspend telemetry from a manned base if it were located near a far side radio telescope. Of course laser communication systems could provide a way of transmitting data without impacting radio observations.A good point in favor of near side lunar bases is that we could utilize terrestrial energy sources to get a small lunar colony through the 2 week lunar night. Storage is unlikely to last a permanently inhabited lunar colony two weeks, and nuclear power may not be an option early in its construction. Earthbound lasers could focus on receivers on the lunar surface to make up for the loss of sunlight through night. That's not to say there is no need to explore the far side but I'd argue at this point we'd do better pushing a sustainable infrastructure utilizing previously landed and perhaps discarded equipment which inevitably will take the form of something resembling a lunar base. |
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