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| Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? (1309539) | |
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| (1310020) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Aug 27 12:28:46 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Aug 27 10:39:26 2015. We'll fight 'em till hell freezes over then we'll fight 'em on the ice.- Tennessee Gov. Brownlow (c. 1863) |
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| (1310025) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 27 13:05:03 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Aug 27 12:09:24 2015. Yes. They buffered out the extra lane. |
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| (1310099) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 27 15:34:37 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Aug 27 12:28:46 2015. Wikipedia says that was uttered by Union Captain William Mattingly. |
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| (1310103) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Aug 27 15:43:22 2015, in response to Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Aug 25 14:55:21 2015. I don't know why everybody who drives and walks into the street just doesn't look around for other cars, trucks, buses, etc. and people? Common sense is dead. So, to counter people's stupidity, Draconian steps are taken such as lowering speed limits and getting rid of lanes and left turns in order to make sure the people with no road-sense live. |
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| (1310109) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 27 15:56:58 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Aug 27 15:43:22 2015. who drives and walks into the street just doesn't look around for other cars, trucks, buses, etc. and people?You're assuming that there is time to react and take evasive action the instant an object comes within one's field of vision. |
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| (1310112) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Aug 27 16:17:31 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 27 15:56:58 2015. No pun intended, but it's a 2-way street. We all grew up in this city, and I was crossing the streets of Brooklyn AND Manhattan growing up all of the time. US, as the pedestrian, HAVE to know when to be in the street and when NOT to be in the street. As for drivers, we have to be aware that we are driving in the largest populated city in America, and should be aware of other drivers and pedestrians. Common sense. I don't need any Draconian laws to do this. |
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| (1310114) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Thu Aug 27 16:18:38 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 27 15:34:37 2015. Cite a better source. Anyone can edit Wiki. |
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| (1310115) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 27 16:22:27 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BILLBKLYN on Thu Aug 27 16:17:31 2015. We all grew up in this city, and I was crossing the streets of Brooklyn AND Manhattan growing up all of the time.The speed limit on city streets was 20 mph, when I was growing up. |
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| (1310119) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by ftgreeneg on Thu Aug 27 16:30:56 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Aug 27 12:13:58 2015. IMO its still better than just making left turn illegal on main thoroughfares. Drivers will eitherA. Have to drive a roundabout route unnecessarely on residential streets since they couldn't make that left turn the driver still has to get to said street. Or worst B. Drivers will simply avoid the streets with the illegal left turns all together which are designed to handle thru traffic (ie Atlantic Ave, Woodhaven Blvd, Queens Blvd etc) in favor of smaller residential streets not dbringing the traffic there where kids play, around playgrounds, schools, bringing pollution. As time goes on more ppl imo will start doing option B which basically taking the same problems and moving them to other streets. |
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| (1310283) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Aug 28 10:43:17 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 27 10:50:59 2015. BUMP |
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| (1310475) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities? |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Fri Aug 28 22:23:49 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities?, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Aug 27 15:34:37 2015. Thanks for attacking me in late August for no reason. I |
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| (1310491) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities? |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Aug 29 00:51:40 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Jaywalker Fatalities?, posted by cortelyounext on Fri Aug 28 22:23:49 2015. Don't blame me for that. It's Wikipedia that doesn't like you and I wanted you to have a fair chance of fighting back. |
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| (1310748) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 00:58:31 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Aug 27 08:45:37 2015. Did I say they should do nothing about unnecessary hospital deaths? What they need to do is to stop exaggerating the problem. The purpose of Vision Zero is to reduce pedestrian fatalities. DOT just did a redesign of Atlantic and Washington which when Washington is congested southbound will leave drivers little alternative to using another street since they can no longer use Underhil and will tie up traffic more.They can only turn right to use Vanderbilt which they already screwed up years ago by removing traffic lanes. Why did they pick Atlantic and Underhill to fool around with? Supposedly to improve pedestrian safety. But there hasn't been a single pedestrian fatality there in eight years, just injuries. I bet virtually any intersection has had some injuries in the past five years. So do we conclude that any intersection with an injury qualifies it as dangerous and worthy of redesign? What criteria is DOT using to determine that an intersection is dangerous? |
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| (1310750) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:20:51 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Thu Aug 27 16:22:27 2015. And streets and lanes were narrower also. |
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Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:22:57 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Aug 26 20:00:08 2015. So you are willing to build more so developers can profit more although safety suffers. Shows where your priorities really are. |
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| (1310752) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:23:42 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed Aug 26 20:05:23 2015. Shows where your priorities lie also. It's not with safety. |
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| (1310753) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:25:08 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Thu Aug 27 12:11:08 2015. Even makes the goal even more uobtanable. |
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| (1310763) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 30 07:25:31 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:23:42 2015. I'm saying that big real estate developers aren't going to allow changes in zoning laws that will cut into their profits. Big money isn't interested in issues like pedestrian safety. |
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| (1310802) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 12:42:19 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Aug 30 07:25:31 2015. But if the city is really serious in improving pedestrian safety and isn't just trying to put on a show pretending it cares, it would challenge those developers and put them publicly to shame. The fact that it doesn't do that proves tat they are more interested in tax revenue generated than they really are in improving pedestrian safety. Tey only want to give the public they impression that they care. |
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| (1311012) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 30 22:02:07 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:22:57 2015. So you are willing to build more so developers can profit more although safety suffers. Shows where your priorities really are.Safety can also be maintained by reducing the maximum speed. N.B. the real estate came before the speed limit was increased to be uniform with those in rural areas. Those who raised the speed limit without regard to all road users having adequate sight distances had their priorities mixed up. |
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| (1311014) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 30 22:06:36 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:20:51 2015. And streets and lanes were narrower also.No, the width of most arterial streets was fixed when the arterial street was created. Most of this occurred during the 1920 to 1940 period. There was a pre-war proposal by Robert Moses to turn all arterial streets into limited access highways. WWII intervened and that proposal was dropped. |
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| (1311229) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 31 20:21:51 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Aug 30 22:06:36 2015. What is your definition of an arterial street? The definition has changed. When the Manhattan Avenues were made one way as other streets were in the 1950s and 60's and traffic signals were synchronized, they became arterial streets with sidewalks narrowed so they could be increased from four to five lanes.Moses never proposed to turn every Manhattan Avenue into a limited access highway. There were maybe a half dozen arterial roads onthe entire city that he wanted to turn into expressways. streets like Ocean Parkway and Bushwick Avenue and a few others. That is far from "all arterial streets". Additionally, many streets were widened through the 1970s by narrowing sidewalks besides the Manhattan Avenues. I personally remember when Fourth Avenue in Brooklyn was widened from four to six lanes around 1975. I also remember Emmons Avenue also being widened from four to six lanes. Being an emgineer doesn't give you the right to make up stories. |
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| (1311231) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 31 20:32:14 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 31 20:21:51 2015. I'm not the biggest fan of all this "road diet" garbage, but if they widened the streets by narrowing the sidewalks, the least they could do is reverse that! |
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| (1311500) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 1 19:36:36 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Aug 31 20:32:14 2015. It depends where. You don't widen sidewalks if there are few walking there. What they are doing is removing the lanes they added by striping them off, so the pedestrians don't benefit and the cars don't benefit either. |
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| (1311501) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 1 19:37:45 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 1 19:36:36 2015. Maybe there are few people walking because it's so unpleasant. |
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| (1311503) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 1 19:40:21 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Sep 1 19:37:45 2015. I highly doubt that. |
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| (1311504) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 1 19:43:26 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue Sep 1 19:36:36 2015. You don't widen sidewalks if there are few walking there.A Manhattan Avenue on which there are very few pedestrians is a virtually non-existent item. |
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| (1311540) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 1 22:59:48 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Mon Aug 31 20:21:51 2015. What is your definition of an arterial street?An arterial highway that is not a limited access highway. A reasonable working map would include only what's designated as "motorways", "trunk roads" and "primary roads" on open street maps. Most Manhattan avenues are designated as "secondary roads." Here's a link to the arterial highway network for 1939. Moses never proposed to turn every Manhattan Avenue into a limited access highway Moses' master plan map was published in the 21 Nov 1940 edition of the NY Times. Here's a list of some of the proposed express highways: Park Avenue north of 96th St; Atlantic Avenue (Flatbush to ENY); Queens Blv; Woodhaven/Crossbay Blvs; Boston Post Road; Grand Concourse and many others. I personally remember when Fourth Avenue in Brooklyn was widened from four to six lanes around 1975. Here's a shot of 4th Ave at 25th St in Brooklyn that was taken in 1929. You will note the 6 traffic lanes. Here's a current view of the same intersection taken in 2013. You will note the same roadway width: 3 traffic lanes (incl parking lane) in both directions. You will also note that sidewalks are the same width - count the number of concrete panels. Being an emgineer doesn't give you the right to make up stories. I agree and I have not. |
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| (1311543) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Sep 1 23:49:32 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Stephen Bauman on Tue Sep 1 22:59:48 2015. Here's a shot of 4th Ave at 25th St in Brooklyn that was taken in 1929.If that's 25th Street in the foreground, shouldn't at least one entrance to the BMT subway be visible in the shot? |
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| (1311547) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Wed Sep 2 00:13:13 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by Kevin from Midwood on Tue Sep 1 23:49:32 2015. I also had my doubts about the 1929 picture being at 25th Street. It would not be the first time that I found a mislabeled picture in the Municipal Archives. However, there's no doubt that it's 4th Ave Brooklyn and the roadway was the same width as it is today.I believe it's a shot at 13th St. My guess is that the City took the picture not to show the new traffic light but to show the school. I looked up which public schools were located on 4th Ave and 13th St appeared. I believe there's a match on the right side building's brick work. The left side block has a lot of new construction. Only the corner building remains. It's a reasonable match but I think a lot of buildings would also match. At least the one-way cross street is going in the same direction. |
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| (1311614) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Sep 2 13:46:50 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 01:25:08 2015. Even makes the goal even more uobtanable.How many traffic fatalities should we strive for, then? |
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| (1311616) | |
Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities? |
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Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Wed Sep 2 14:19:53 2015, in response to Re: Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Fatalities?, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Aug 30 12:42:19 2015. But if the city is really serious in improving pedestrian safety and isn't just trying to put on a show pretending it cares, it would challenge those developers and put them publicly to shame. The fact that it doesn't do that proves tat they are more interested in tax revenue generated than they really are in improving pedestrian safety. Tey only want to give the public they impression that they care.Pedestrians don't suddenly appear from behind buildings; the sidewalk and parking shoulder offer enough of a sight triangle at intersections to protect pedestrians. Increasing building setbacks would help reduce vehicle to vehicle crashes, but slower speeds would have the same effect without taking away valuable real estate. |
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