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| Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee (1303981) | |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 13:22:10 2015, in response to Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 13:19:20 2015. “His remark about marching the Israelis to the door of the oven was a poor choice of words but reflects his understanding that Iran has threatened to annihilate Israel and this deal could give them the means to carry out that threat,” the group’s executive director, Mitchell Bard, said in a statement to msnbc.While of course if no deal is signed the Iranians have no means whatsoever to develop nuclear weapons. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 13:47:39 2015, in response to Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 13:19:20 2015. While I agree with Mike Huckabee that it is not in the interest of either the United States or Israel to sign the deal as currently worded, I disagree with using my family members who died at the hands of the Nazis as a talking point. They died as a result of a dictator who sought nothing less than the extermination of all the Jews, not so someone in the future can use them to score political points. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 13:52:30 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 13:47:39 2015. I'm interested to know, what do you think will prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons if no deal is signed? Don't you think they've taken precautions to block future Stuxnets? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:01:04 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 13:52:30 2015. Deal or no deal Iran is going to try and develop nuclear weapons. We had the better leverage because Iran needs the sanctions removed moreso than we need them remaining in place. Despite the better bargaining position our delegation caved on everything. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 14:05:21 2015, in response to Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 13:19:20 2015. More antisemitism out of you. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:29:15 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:01:04 2015. We had the better leverage because Iran needs the sanctions removed moreso than we need them remaining in place.Other countries would have dropped the sanctions had we walked away from the deal. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 14:30:39 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:01:04 2015. I'm not following.What if there had been no deal? You think the US could have persuaded India, Russia, and China to continue to go along with sanctions? And you think Iran's progress with sanctions in place and no deal would have been slower than with no sanctions in place and a deal that calls for real inspections? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Jul 27 14:32:27 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 14:05:21 2015. iawtlp |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:33:09 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 14:30:39 2015. Except the deal does not call for real inspections as Iran is entitled to notice and there is no recourse if they do not comply or fail the inspections because the United Nations would never meaningfully punish Iran |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:34:03 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:33:09 2015. Except the deal does not call for real inspectionsAs opposed to real inspections without a deal. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 14:34:25 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:29:15 2015. Well, you've gotten to the heart of it. Other countries have little to no use (or worse) for Israel but want Iranian oil and business."Blood for Oil" is OK just so it isn't European blood. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:38:25 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 14:34:25 2015. As you know, we live in the world we have, not the world we might want or wish to have at a later time. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:40:25 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:34:03 2015. There won't be any facilities after we blast them back to the stone age. They don't want a deal on our terms, fine, enjoy the rain of weaponry |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 14:43:34 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 14:34:25 2015. Other countries have little to no use (or worse) for Israel but want Iranian oil and business.Yet so many people act as if no deal, with sanctions remaining in place, was actually one of the options. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 27 14:48:42 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 14:05:21 2015. Not like you would know. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 27 14:48:55 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Jul 27 14:32:27 2015. Ologism is a disease, you can still be cured... |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Jul 27 14:54:56 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Mon Jul 27 14:48:55 2015. I don't know whether I should take that as a compliment? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:57:01 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:40:25 2015. How do we blast them into the stone age?Then tell me what happens the next day, next week , next month and next year. Give me a chronology of events that happens after we bomb them. If you don't know what what happens after we bomb them, will you still bomb them? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 15:04:18 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 14:57:01 2015. If you had to be sure you knew how it would end everytime, you would never act. A nuclear Iran is a threat to our ally in the region (Israel) and to the United States. If Iran wants a deal you make them work for it and not capitulate on everything. At the end of the day, despite what China, Russia and India do, the United States is the big fish that Iran needs as we have the capital. If they want a deal it has to include recognition of Israel's right to exist with its current boundaries and a complete dismantling of Iran's nuclear program with meaningful inspections by the United States, not the United Nations. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:16:36 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 14:43:34 2015. A powerful country sets the options; Obama has no stomach for that.Or possibly, he likes the outcome. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 27 15:20:12 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:16:36 2015. The alternative to the deal is clearly war between the US and Iran. Do you think that this is a plausible alternative? Clearly Iran knows that the US no longer has any stomach for war. Especially since we wasted our “stomach” for war on that war that also made Iran more powerful.Thanks Ayatollah Cheney. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 15:23:18 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 15:04:18 2015. If you had to be sure you knew how it would end everytime, you would never act.Vietnam, Iraq War. The works of people who didn't think stuff through. You can add Japan's bombing of Pearl Harbor to the list. A nuclear Iran is a threat to our ally in the region (Israel) and to the United States. Whereas an Iran that has just been bombed will become a meek rollover crying uncle? Tell me again. What do you think Iran will do in the days, weeks and months after such a bombing the United States is the big fish that Iran needs as we have the capital. Umm no. We weren't providing capital to Iran before the sanctions and we won't now. Iran only came to the table after Obama got China, Russia, Japan and European countries to impose their own sanctions. The US already had sanctions and an embargo against Iran and they could have given two shits. If they want a deal it has to include recognition of Israel's right to exist with its current boundaries and a complete dismantling of Iran's nuclear program with meaningful inspections by the United States, not the United Nations. Or what? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:28:43 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 15:04:18 2015. OK, in order for Israel to even hit Iran, it's going to need a ton of fuel as well as tankers, and runs the risk of the planes being spotted with enough lead time for the Iranians to defend themselves. Also note that Iran is very big - I really, really doubt Israel can hit all parts of Iran (and since the Iranians are not dumb, they've probably put at least some of their facilities in the east or north, away from Israel). If the US gets involved and uses carriers, they'd have to operate in some pretty restricted and risky areas, and would still have trouble hitting everything. And even if we did succeed in "bombing them back to the stone age", do you REALLY want to destabilize yet another Middle Eastern country? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:31:24 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:16:36 2015. There are other powerful countries. China, after all, has the second biggest economy, and a thirst for energy. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 15:33:57 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:28:43 2015. do you REALLY want to destabilize yet another Middle Eastern country?Iran wouldn't be destabilized. WE WOULD!! How do you like the idea of a Draft and $1T a year in new war spending, a tripling of taxes and indirect nationalization of the means of defense production? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:40:33 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jul 27 15:20:12 2015. There are no plausible alternatives with Obama in the White House.And if America has no "stomach" for war it is because of Vietnam. Been there. Done that. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:41:48 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:31:24 2015. The U.S. was the most powerful country, until Obama started spending down America's power as though it was his to give away. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:46:01 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:41:48 2015. China's rise has been going on since Clinton, if not further back. And I'm not sure what you mean by spending down, but Congress is the one that sets the budget for things like the military. If people want to increase military spending (and I'm not at all certain Obama is against it) the govt has to get that money from somewhere. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:48:30 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 15:33:57 2015. If we do the usual bombing strategy and mess up a lot of infrastructure and centers of govt., yeah, that would destabilize them. Yeah, and I agree, us too, esp. with our dysfunctional govt. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 15:51:19 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:46:01 2015. You mean, gulp, taxes? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:54:53 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by AlM on Mon Jul 27 15:51:19 2015. *nervous gulp* Ayup. :-) |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Jul 27 15:55:49 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:46:01 2015. But it's cool to blame President Obama:-) |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:59:15 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by WayneJay on Mon Jul 27 15:55:49 2015. If I got a nickle for every disparaging comment I read about Obama in the various comment sections of new articles... :-) |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 18:04:35 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by ChicagoMotorman on Mon Jul 27 14:32:27 2015. The National Jewish Democratic Council is the opposite of what they claim. Never mind giving tacit approval to the Iranian nukes by doing this. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 19:41:49 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SLRT on Mon Jul 27 15:40:33 2015. And if America has no "stomach" for war it is because of Vietnam.Been there. Done that Of course, Bush's Iraq Adventure between 2003-2011, 3500 dead soldiers, tens of thousands more disabled and three trillion dollars and counting flushed down the toilet in order to hand that country to Iran has nothing to do with it. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 19:45:01 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 15:48:30 2015. If we do the usual bombing strategy and mess up a lot of infrastructure and centers of govt., yeah, that would destabilize them.No it wouldn't. We'd be destabilized. You think Iran is Iraq, Somalia or Afghanistan? You just bomb it and nothing happens? |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 20:46:19 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 19:45:01 2015. Of course something would happen. They have a relatively advanced society, relying on a functioning infrastructure. Take that away by "blasting them back to the stone age" (which would also mean bombing any centers of military or paramilitary power) and they won't be much better than Afghanistan or Iraq after we attacked. Sure, they'd still be far from helpless, but it could weaken them enough to turn them into another Middle Eastern basket case, esp. with ISIS at their doorstep. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Jul 27 20:58:03 2015, in response to Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 13:19:20 2015. As a Jew I personally am NOT offended by his remark. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 21:48:13 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Mon Jul 27 20:46:19 2015. and they won't be much better than Afghanistan or Iraq after we attacked.You don't know much about Iran do you? You think it's just another raghead country. If we attack Iran, things will be blowing up all over America within DAYS and it would NOT be terrorism either. It wouldn't be legitimate national defense on their part. Every country has a right to defend itself by all means necessary. Even bad countries. Add ANOTHER $1 trillion for homeland defense. I hope you like 75% tax rates, a draft and the elimination of all other federal spending. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Jul 27 22:20:50 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Jeff Rosen on Mon Jul 27 20:58:03 2015. Me neither. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 22:27:29 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by chicagomotorman on Mon Jul 27 22:20:50 2015. Why should it bother them? Acting bothered about it means defending Iran. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 22:33:47 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 22:27:29 2015. I have a problem with my dead relatives being used as a part of political stunt even though I have stated repeatedly on here how much I hate this "deal" (a/k/a BOHICA from Iran) |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 22:38:17 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 22:33:47 2015. What political stunt? Telling the truth about Iran's intentions is a "political stunt" now?It should bother you more that the NJDC is defending Iran. I have relatives who were victims too. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 22:53:01 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Jul 27 22:38:17 2015. Mike Huckabee did not have to invoke my dead relatives to say that Iran wants Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth, a nuclear Iran makes Israel their first target and the "deal" does nothing to stop Iran. Instead he went for the headline grabbing metaphor to score political points. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by italianstallion on Mon Jul 27 23:43:55 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by mtk52983 on Mon Jul 27 14:33:09 2015. Answer Alm's question. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 28 00:01:23 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Mon Jul 27 21:48:13 2015. Why? Do they have planes that can reach the US? Missiles? They may have IRBM's not ICBMs. If it won't be terrorism and it won't be legitimate national defense, what would it be?My last few posts are assuming we do manage to bomb them successfully. However, since the Iranians are not dumb and are able to make or obtain fairly sophisticated hardware, we can expect a fight from their air force and navy, not to mention the SAMs from the air defense system. |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 28 00:16:28 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by italianstallion on Mon Jul 27 23:43:55 2015. 
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 28 00:21:38 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 28 00:01:23 2015. Do they have planes that can reach the US?.....we can expect a fight from their air force and navy, not to mention the SAMs from the air defense system.Their air force and navy? You think that any military engagement with Iran will be limited to Iranian territory? If it won't be terrorism and it won't be legitimate national defense, what would it be? It's not terrorism when a nation defends itself from foreign attack. They are free to do anything they are capable of pulling off. No different than us nuking a country that were to attack us militarily. Their innocent civilians would die in the process. Tough shit. Sucks to be them |
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Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Jul 28 00:32:58 2015, in response to Re: Jewish Groups Denounce Mike Huckabee, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jul 28 00:21:38 2015. From a purely military perspective? Main thing they likely have is IRBMs which can most likely hit Israel and any other nation in the ME which is against them. Doubt that their aircraft will be that useful offensively unless they are kamikazes, same reason that Israel will have trouble.After that will be some kind of covert ops, whether through the intelligence agencies or special forces. |
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