"The Return of Feltman's"

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"The Return of Feltman's"
Posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 10:24:28 2015 fiogf49gjkf0d I put that in quotes because it is the equivalent of me goinf into business as "Sprague Electric Company" and saying "We invented the practical trolley." The article says a Nathan's hot dog is $4.15. Really? -------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.amny.com/eat-and-drink/hot-dog-history-feltman-s-of-coney-island-returns-1.10261679 The return of Feltman's: Coney Island's first hot dog By GEORGIA KRAL April 14, 2015 Advertisement Advertise here The Wonder Wheel and other rides at Coney 13 secrets of Coney Island Who created the first Coney Island hot dog? No, it wasn't Nathan Handwerker of Nathan's Famous. According to historian Michael Quinn, the man widely believed to have invented the hot dog was Charles Feltman. In 1867, Feltman, a German immigrant, began serving sausages on pastry buns made at his bakery in Park Slope. He called them Coney Island Red Hots (not spicy, just hot in temperature and red in color!). Handwerker was actually his employee! Quinn, a lover of history and Coney Island, says the time has come to set the record straight. Feltman's of Coney Island makes its debut on May 28. "We have so much history down here," said Quinn, 39, who grew up near Coney and never left Brooklyn. "In the past couple of years, Coney Island has seen such a chance. This is the best its been in my lifetime... These days, when people order food, they like a story behind it." Feltman's will first operate as a pop-up, starting at Sycamore in Ditmas Park. In the meantime, Quinn will search for a permanent location along Surf Avenue, where it all began. Feltman's will sell natural (no nitrate) all-beef hot dogs to start and will eventually also sell pork sausages. He will use potato rolls, not pastry rolls. Each dog will cost $2, compared to $4.15 at Nathan's. According to Quinn, Handwerker undercut Feltman back when he first started Nathan's in 1916, selling dogs for 5 cents compared to Feltman's 10 cents. Quinn said the idea to bring Feltman's back has long been an interest to him. He is the editor of the local website TheConeyIslandBlog.com and also runs Coney Island Walking Tours. Quinn wants Coney to remain its weird self. "Surf Avenue [where Feltman's restaurant opened in 1871] is starting to be saturdated by franchises," said Quinn, who is also a member of the #SaveNYC campaign, which seeks to support long-standing NYC businesses. "It looks like Times Square by the sea." The idea has created a lot of buzz, too. "People who've been around Coney Island are fascinated by it," he said.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Dave* on Wed Apr 15 10:50:08 2015, in response to "The Return of Feltman's", posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 10:24:28 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Neat!
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Allan* on Wed Apr 15 15:54:19 2015, in response to "The Return of Feltman's", posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 10:24:28 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d At the Coney Island stores a Nathan's hot dog is $4.15 (this restaurant is owned and run by Nathan's). It is a bit less at other Nathan's (franchised( stores. Well, Mr. Quinn is welcome to try. Whether he will succeed remains to be seen. Someone tried to undercut Nathan's a few years ago (Chicago Hot Dog)and had opened a store across the street from Nathan's. The place wasn't open for more than a couple of years.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Wed Apr 15 16:27:25 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Allan on Wed Apr 15 15:54:19 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d $4.15 for a hot dog, even a Nathan's hot dog, is ridiculous. So much for the market principle that volume creates economies of scale that lower prices.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Apr 15 16:50:12 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 16:27:25 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d The "invisible hand" long ago turned into the "black hand." :( ©™ Corporate States of America, All rights reserved.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SMAZ* on Wed Apr 15 16:56:23 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 16:27:25 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d So much for the market principle that volume creates economies of scale that lower prices. There is also the market principle that pricing is based on what the market can bear. Consumers feel that paying $4.15 for a frank at THE Nathan's on CI is worth the price.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Newkirk Images* on Wed Apr 15 16:57:59 2015, in response to "The Return of Feltman's", posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 10:24:28 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SelkirkTMO* on Wed Apr 15 17:04:10 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Apr 15 16:57:59 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Moxie right across the street. Doesn't get any more real than that!
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Dan* on Thu Apr 16 11:03:20 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Newkirk Images on Wed Apr 15 16:57:59 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Great postcard, appears to be sometime in the 1920s.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 09:32:10 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SMAZ on Wed Apr 15 16:56:23 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Then they should charge 15 cents for the frank and $4 for the experience. Back in the day (1950s) the hot dog tended to match the subway fare. Back then they were both 15c. A bag of fries was 5 cents and a cone was 10 cents; that soon increased to 10 and 15 respectively. And I can hear you saying "yeah, yeah, old man, that's 1950s money." According to Bureau of Labor Statistics, the 1958 15 cents would now be $1.22. A far cry from more than $4. http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl?cost1=0.15&year1=1958&year2=2015
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 17 10:00:21 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 09:32:10 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d General inflation stats aren't a perfect way of determining price equivalents because different things inflate at different rates. That having been said, Nathan's Coney Island charges those prices because it's a landmark and they can get away with it.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SMAZ* on Fri Apr 17 10:06:51 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 09:32:10 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d the 1958 15 cents would now be $1.22. A far cry from more than $4. The average price for a frank in NY is still about equal to that of the subway fare. The price at Nathan's flagship location does not need to follow that because it doesn't compete with the average hot dog vendor. It's a world-renowned institution of its own and people are willing to spend twice the amount for an Original Nathan's frank. You seem to be calling for mandated price controls or some other anti-market initiative.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 10:07:46 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 17 10:00:21 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d OK, a more dog-to-dog comparison. In the same era a good cart hotdog (e.g., Sabrett's) was 10 cents, with the usual toppings (mustard, onions, sauerkraut). How much for that now? If the answer is much less than $2.77 my point is made.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SMAZ* on Fri Apr 17 10:11:35 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 17 10:00:21 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Exactly! Comparing Nathan's flagship to the price of his favorite local stand in 1958 is absurd.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 10:15:18 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 17 10:11:35 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d My 15 cent price in 1958 WAS Nathan's, not "my favorite local stand."
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 10:17:28 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 17 10:06:51 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d You seem to be calling for mandated price controls or some other anti-market initiative. I do? Saying something is priced too high is a call for regulation? You're thinking like a progressive. Your choice and my choice is not to buy it. And I won't.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 17 10:19:49 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 10:15:18 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d In 1958 Nathan's had not yet developed into the landmark business that it is now.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 10:27:59 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 17 10:19:49 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Bullshit.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 17 10:28:28 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 10:27:59 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Not bullshit.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 10:35:02 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 17 10:28:28 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d If anything has changed since 1958, it's not Nathan's, it's the herd of Millennial Foodies who are willing to pay much too much for something they deem trendy and unique. In that sense a fad (which is what it is at base) is a market force. People are also willing to wait on long lines and suffer other customer abuse that people didn't put up with if they had a choice. In this sense, I'm hoping "Feltman's" succeeds with their two-dollar hot dog. What Nathan's doesn't have any more is competition.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 17 10:50:27 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 10:35:02 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Nathan's had such high prices back during the 1990s and early 2000s when there weren't "millennial foodies." And in any event, I see way more people than just "millennial foodies" at Nathan's. Nathan's does have competition in that there are other places to eat in Coney Island, including hot dogs. There are other examples of overpriced casual restaurants in New York City. I'm pretty sure that before it was trendy, Katz Deli did not charge $20 (in 2015 prices) for a pastrami sandwich. In 1958 enough people didn't associate hot dogs in Coney Island with some kind of classic experience that they would be willing to pay extra for it.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 11:10:50 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Apr 17 10:50:27 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Between you and me and OT Chat, do you think eating a hot dog at Nathan's is a classic experience? I suppose I shouldn't complain too much. The alternative would be Coney Island being a run-down no-man's land, its apparent ending fate during most of my life.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Spider-Pig* on Fri Apr 17 11:16:07 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 11:10:50 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, it is. However Nathan's CI honors coupons intended for their other outlets, so I only go there when I get those.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SMAZ* on Fri Apr 17 12:14:44 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SLRT on Fri Apr 17 10:27:59 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d In 1958 was CI's Nathan's was an historically world-renowned establishment? In 1958 was CI's Nathan's sponsoring the internationally watched hot dog-eating contest? In 1958 could you find Nathan's hot dogs in supermarkets everywhere in America? Back then, Nathan's was just another local hot dog chain. In the same category as today's Crown Fried Chicken when it comes to chicken. Or as Spider-Pig said, what Katz's was to delis. Just one of many. Truth is that in 1958 Coney Island was one big junkyard in steep decline and such a place was not where a visitor would go to experience the "quintessential NYC experience" as they do now. It was a place to be avoided.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by SLRT* on Fri Apr 17 14:17:47 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 17 12:14:44 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d [It's where a] visitor [from Dubuque] would go to experience the "quintessential NYC experience" as they do now.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by orange blossom special* on Fri Apr 17 18:33:22 2015, in response to "The Return of Feltman's", posted by SLRT on Wed Apr 15 10:24:28 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d I was in love, until they mentioned pork.
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Re: ''The Return of Feltman's''
Posted by Newkirk Images* on Sat Apr 18 16:30:09 2015, in response to Re: ''The Return of Feltman's'', posted by SMAZ on Fri Apr 17 12:14:44 2015.* fiogf49gjkf0d Truth is that in 1958 Coney Island was one big junkyard in steep decline and such a place was not where a visitor would go to experience the "quintessential NYC experience" as they do now. It was a place to be avoided. I don't remember Coney Island in steep decline in 1958. Steep decline happened after the World's Fair drew people away from Coney island. By the late 60's, Coney island was a place to be avoided. Bill >b>Newkirk
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