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| Plane crash in the alps (1274452) | |
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| (1274452) | |
Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Mar 24 08:10:55 2015 148 on board |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:11:49 2015, in response to Plane crash in the alps, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Mar 24 08:10:55 2015. Not good. No contact from the cockpit despite a seemingly steady descent over 8-10 minutes....Reinforced cockpit doors are good for keeping the terrorists out. Not so good when the terrorist is already inside and nature calls for the only other person in the cockpit. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 13:20:06 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:11:49 2015. If that's what happened it would have taken less than 8-10 minutes.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1771 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SilkAir_Flight_185 |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:34:45 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 13:20:06 2015. 6 minutes for the Silk Air flight. 8-10 for this one. I hope to be wrong. Plus, if you want to crash the thing in the Alps then you have to reach the Alps. You can't control when the other guy has to go...Note that LH has only released info on the pilot, not on the copilot. Let's hope time proves me wrong. Malfunctions can be dealt with far more easily than terroristic and/or suicidal pilots. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:28:24 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:34:45 2015. One other note this plane was an airbust, from what i understand they have safeguards that make it more difficult for pilots to do things that are unsafe. I wonder what cortelyounext thinks. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 24 14:36:12 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:34:45 2015. Then again, 8 hours for MH 370.I agree, there is no way to prevent suicidal pilots. Life isn't perfect. But the chances of being killed by one are pretty low. Probably a lot lower than your chances of being killed by a cop or a driver who suddenly snaps and becomes homicidal. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Mar 24 14:37:18 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:28:24 2015. ???You can't turn off autopilot on an Airbus? Once it's off, what prevents a dive? |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:41:03 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 24 14:37:18 2015. My understanding is they have a feature that prevents to pilots from doing something unsafe even when the the autopilot is off. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 15:01:40 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:41:03 2015. Certainly the newest Airbus planes do. If you haven't read QF32, I highly recommend it. This was a much older plane, though. Delivered in 1990/91 or so. I don't think it would have all the bells and whistles of a more recently manufactured plane. |
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| (1274563) | |
Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 24 15:02:32 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:28:24 2015. I last flew Airbus A319/320s in 2008 so my memory is faulty but suffice that generally speaking your statement - safeguards that make it more difficult for pilots to do things that are unsafe - has merit. Any airplane can be stalled/depart controlled flight but the advancement in technologies attempt to minimize that outcome. The 320 has the complicated Flight Control Laws (I outlined the laws in a thread some years ago) which provide progressively degraded response due to the almighty "multiple failures of redundant systems" - I can see that phrase in my sleep. In Normal Law, IIRC you cannot stall the airplane except for a perfect storm scenario; that is, you can pull back the Sidestick to its limit and the plane will respond up to a point but not beyond. ALPHA Floor/TOGA Lock are Airbus terms which describe automatic systems that respond to approaching stall conditions. The Boeing 737NGs, which I fly now, have various systems to preclude the same situation from occurring or at to least provide additional time, things such as SMYD (Stall Management/Series Yaw Damper), Elevator Shift Module, Speed Trim System (STS), and leading edge devices (flaps and slats) that automatically extend without pilot input when aerodynamics warrant. The Airbus has a similar system. So yes. As for the accident, I am going to remain true to my standard of not offering any commentary at this early point. Even when things seem obvious, often times... |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 24 15:12:50 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 24 15:02:32 2015. By the way, my post was intended as a cursory summary, no more no less, for purposes of this board as the A320 flight envelope protections, to include stall prevention and structural load alleviation, are extensive and complex. |
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| (1274569) | |
Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by salaamallah@hotmail.com on Tue Mar 24 15:28:47 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by cortelyounext on Tue Mar 24 15:12:50 2015. she is very pretty |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 15:35:58 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by AlM on Tue Mar 24 14:36:12 2015. I worry about such things from a business perspective more than I do from a personal one. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Mar 24 16:47:05 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:28:24 2015. airbustIndeed cortelyounext Oh man!!!! |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 17:02:16 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 14:28:24 2015. airbust was a typo i wasn't trying to mike light of the tragedy. |
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| (1274609) | |
Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Tue Mar 24 17:04:37 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by DanD124 on Tue Mar 24 17:02:16 2015. airbust was a typo i wasn't trying to mike light of the tragedy.well "airbust" is List Of Aviatorspeak. That said, you never have made light of tragedy in the past so there's no reason to think you would today. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Mar 25 02:44:32 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by Charles G on Tue Mar 24 13:11:49 2015. The folks at pprune.org seem to be leaning toward hypoxia resulting from a decompression (maybe a gradual one) followed by a failure of the oxygen supply. |
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Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by DanD124 on Wed Mar 25 23:21:48 2015, in response to Plane crash in the alps, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Mar 24 08:10:55 2015. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/report-pilot-on-crashed-plane-was-locked-out-of-cockpit/ |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 25 23:23:12 2015, in response to Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by DanD124 on Wed Mar 25 23:21:48 2015. And that would be a violation. If one of a two member flight crew leaves the cockpit, another crew member (stewardess, whatever) is supposed to take their seat until they come back in to prevent exactly this scenario. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 26 02:31:40 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 25 23:23:12 2015. I also read earlier that this is a regulation specifically only for U.S. airlines. It may or may not be followed by airlines in European or other countries.General description of what I read. Any further clarification is welcomed. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 26 02:35:10 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by Express Rider on Thu Mar 26 02:31:40 2015. I'll leave that to our expert from the moving company. :)It's definitely the rule here, and if it isn't elsewhere, I expect that it will be soon. That is all, over and out. (skkkkkkkk!) |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Mar 26 06:49:32 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 26 02:35:10 2015. Definitely not a rule on European flights. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Mar 26 07:13:32 2015, in response to Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by DanD124 on Wed Mar 25 23:21:48 2015. There's already two threads on this. Why start a third? |
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Re: Germanwings disaster question |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 08:12:20 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by Dave on Thu Mar 26 07:13:32 2015. He wants the attention. |
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Re: Germanwings disaster question |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Mar 26 08:19:49 2015, in response to Re: Germanwings disaster question, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 08:12:20 2015. Seems so. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Mar 26 08:53:05 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 26 02:35:10 2015. Thanks but no thanks. I want to stay well clear of discussing those protocols because it has the potential to lead me down a primrose path I'd rather not go down. I trust you will understand. |
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WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 09:08:24 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by Dave on Thu Mar 26 07:13:32 2015. There's already two threads on this. Why start a third?Wrong, Dave. DanD124 did NOT start a new thread. Assuming the moderator did not combine threads, DanD124 only changed the subject line of one of the existing threads. So DanD124 did 100% the right thing. Save your vitriol for people who deserve it, like Salaam and Nilet :) |
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Re: Germanwings disaster question |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 09:11:35 2015, in response to WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 09:08:24 2015. Stop taking up for dandKKK. Bad enough you're still the prime candidate for the first Subchat Blanket Party. |
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Re: WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Dave on Thu Mar 26 09:50:43 2015, in response to WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 09:08:24 2015. You are correct, sir! Apologies, Danny boy. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Mar 26 11:46:13 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Mar 26 08:53:05 2015. I can certainly understand your concerns.There is a tragic irony unfolding in that, 13+ years ago in the days immediately following 9/11/2001 many pilots wanted to "look each passenger in the eye" as they boarded the plane. Today, following this event and the MH370 which may also be a pilot suicide event, many passengers will want to "look their pilots in the eye" as they board the plane. |
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| (1275944) | |
Re: WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 12:11:57 2015, in response to Re: Germanwings disaster question, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 09:11:35 2015. I'm all about the truth and the facts. The fact that you knowingly agreed with Dave when you knew he was mistaken (and/or would have done so just because you don't like DanD) says a lot about your credibility. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Thu Mar 26 12:35:17 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by Charles G on Thu Mar 26 11:46:13 2015. I was a San Francisco based Airbus A320 pilot 13+ years ago. Following the four days of mandatory no fly I was scheduled to resume my work. I clearly remember walking up to the gate in the SFO International Terminal and waiting for the delayed inbound to arrive. After conversing with the gate agent I discreetly walked by the seating area on my way to get the newspaper and saw a couple men whose physical appearance and clothing caught my attention I'll leave it at that. It was a conscious decision on my part to take notice of things like that, racial/ethnic profiling be damned, on that morning 13+ years ago. |
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Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot crash cause |
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Posted by Dutchrailnut on Thu Mar 26 12:47:54 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Mar 26 12:35:17 2015. Other crashes caused by pilot problemsMARSEILLE - The co-pilot of the unit Germanwings that crashed Tuesday in France, that has probably done deliberately. It would not be the first time that an aircraft occupants are killed because the pilot (presumably) deliberately let the plane crash: February 9, 1982: A Japan Air Lines plane crashed shortly before landing at Tokyo in the sea, because the captain suddenly speed lowered. Before that, he had to pull two levers. The co-pilot tried in vain to stop the captain. Nevertheless, many of the 147 survived the crash occupant at low speed. Only 24 people had died at the hands of the pilot, who confessed that he had psychological problems. August 21, 1994: A plane Royal Air Maroc crashed into the Atlas mountains, not long after it had taken off. A commission of inquiry found that the pilot turned off the autopilot and deliberately steered the plane into a nosedive. All 44 passengers were killed. December 19, 1997: A Boeing 737 of the Singapore society SilkAir crashed en route from Jakarta to Singapore. According to the American Council for Transport Safety Board (NTSB), the pilot had to wait until the co-pilot was in the cockpit, the black boxes off and then crash the device. The pilot had had multiple problems at work and there was not financially good for. 104 people died. October 31, 1999: Off the coast of the United States crashed a Boeing 767 of Egypt Air down. It happened just after the captain had left the cockpit. The NTSB could not determine with certainty that the co-pilot - who repeatedly "I trust in God," said - wanted to crash the plane, but found that his actions behind the wheel were the cause. November 29, 2013: A Mozambique Airlines plane crashed in Namibia, on the way to Angola. The captain sent the unit down, shortly after the co-pilot had left the cockpit, the research revealed. The 27 passengers and six crew members were killed. March 8, 2014: Malaysia Airlines Flight MH370 disappears from the radar. The wreck is still not found, and so it remains unclear what happened. Several experts believe it is likely that the captain did drop the pressure in the cabin deliberately and ultimately himself died at the lack of oxygen. The plane has presumably hours flown. There were 239 people on board. |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by Charles G on Thu Mar 26 14:31:58 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by AlM on Wed Mar 25 02:44:32 2015. I guess now you'll know where to turn to next time for uninformed speculation... |
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Re: Plane crash in the alps |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Mar 26 14:45:01 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the alps, posted by Charles G on Thu Mar 26 14:31:58 2015. Well, they're definitely a place that wouldn't consider pilot suicide (or gross pilot error, for that matter) until the evidence pointing that way was irrefutable. |
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| (1275998) | |
Re: Plane crash in the Alps |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 15:39:38 2015, in response to Re: WRONG, DAVE -- Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 12:11:57 2015. I'm all about the truthNo you aren't. If you were, you'd use discretion. The fact that you knowingly agreed with Dave when you knew he was mistaken False. You lie. I said that dand124 wants to draw attention to himself. |
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Re: Plane crash in the Alps |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Thu Mar 26 15:58:36 2015, in response to Re: Plane crash in the Alps, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 15:39:38 2015. Yes I am. What does discretion have to do with truth?Not false. Not a lie. You provided an answer to a question that contained something that was untrue. Not only did you answer it without pointing out the mistake, your answer depends on the question not containing a mistake. |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Mar 26 16:38:40 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by cortelyounext on Thu Mar 26 08:53:05 2015. Understood. NOFORN, Eyes only. You can holster that pistol now. :) |
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Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash |
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Posted by Fisk Ave Jim on Thu Mar 26 16:58:17 2015, in response to Re: Report: Germanwings Flight 9525 pilot was locked out of cockpit before crash, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Mar 25 23:23:12 2015. Thats exactly right. On my last flight to San Francisco, before the pilot left to go to the john, the guy in charge of the commissary cart came forward from the back of the plane to go to the cockpit & keep the co-pilot company. Glad he didn't take too long. I needed another Brooklyn Lager. |
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Re: Germanwings disaster question |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Thu Mar 26 19:21:58 2015, in response to Re: Germanwings disaster question, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Mar 26 09:11:35 2015. Is that a threat of violence? |
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| (1276105) | |
Germanwings pilot had to STOP training because he was suffering depression and 'burn-out' |
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Posted by DanD124 on Thu Mar 26 23:33:15 2015, in response to Plane crash in the alps, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Mar 24 08:10:55 2015. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3012053/Andreas-Lubitz-Germanwings-flight-9525-French-alps-crash-French-alps-Germanwings-plane-crash-Airbus-A320-Barcelonnette.html |
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