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| "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs" (1236258) | |
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| (1236258) | |
"Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs" |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014 Say what? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 11:05:03 2014, in response to "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs", posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014. More Marxism. Consider it "You didn't build that" redux. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by bingbong on Sat Oct 25 12:31:05 2014, in response to "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs", posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014. They aren't. Been a serious problem the past few years. Didn't you *read* the memo? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 12:54:42 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by bingbong on Sat Oct 25 12:31:05 2014. If businesses aren't creating jobs, who is then? Dropping unemployment rates means jobs have been created so who is doing that? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by train dude on Sat Oct 25 13:09:07 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 12:54:42 2014. Well the obamacare website created a few. After all, for $2 billion we should get something. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 25 13:09:39 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 12:54:42 2014. If businesses aren't creating jobs, who is then?Businesses do not hire workers unless they believe they can make a profit from their labor. The businesses will only make a profit, if there is demand for their goods or services. Businesses will not hire workers, if they do not perceive increased demand for their goods and services. The problem with the current situation is that the population has been divided into two economic classes by disposable income. The vast majority (99+%) don't have enough disposable income to consume additional goods and services. The remaining 1% are already sated and have no desire to consume additional goods and services. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 13:13:34 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 12:54:42 2014. Dropping unemployment rates means jobs have been createdNot in this country. The real unemployment rate is around 30 percent. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 13:19:56 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 13:13:34 2014. No, that's your real IQ rate. |
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| (1236317) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 25 13:36:40 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 25 13:09:39 2014. Precisely. And as an economy, that retrograde continues by austerity. That's why the fed can't raise interest rates. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:00 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 11:05:03 2014. Consider it "You didn't build that" redux.So who do you think built the roads and the public schools? Who do you think makes sure the air and water are relatively unpolluted? Who do you think keeps the trains running? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 18:36:39 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 25 13:09:39 2014. Ooookay...but then who is hiring all those people who are no longer unemployed? Are they all government employees? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 18:37:55 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 18:36:39 2014. Didn't work out well in Mother Russia. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 25 20:41:43 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 18:36:39 2014. who is hiring all those people who are no longer unemployed?It's job quality more than quantity that influences disposable income. A retiring baby boomer recalled, his father raised 4 children in a comfortable house on a single salary, he raised 2 children with his wife also working and his children are having difficulty in an apartment with 2 jobs and only 1 child. You can have more jobs but lower disposable income. That's what's happened over the last 50 and especially last 35 years. Are they all government employees? Government employment has gone down during the current economic downturn. |
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| (1236452) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 21:36:51 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:00 2014. So who do you think built the roads and the public schools?Private contractors in the business to make a profit that were the lowest bidders to build said schools and roads. Who do you think makes sure the air and water are relatively unpolluted? Government employes using machinery manufactured and installed by private contractors (See above). Who do you think keeps the trains running? The private enterprises that are in business of make a profit running railroads. It was the people employed by private enterprises that are in the business to make a profit that did all the work not the government employes that collected the taxes to pay for it. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'' |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 21:54:09 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs'', posted by Stephen Bauman on Sat Oct 25 20:41:43 2014. Thanks but you're not answering the question. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:01:01 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 21:36:51 2014. He really isn't very smart. The first roads were built by private companies who charged tolls. California's road network used to be all tolled (surprising out of that state) until the state politicians read Marx and took them over. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:01:54 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 13:19:56 2014. No, that's your real IQ rate.Are you familiar with the term "Job Participation Rate"? Said rate began falling around mid 1999.  United States Bureau of Labor Statistics Those individuals are no longer counted in the unemployment rate. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:04:29 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 13:19:56 2014. Sandbox John just pwn3d you. The real unemployment rate is about 30 percent. Of course, partisans like you would only tout that fact when Bush was in office. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:05:16 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 18:15:00 2014. You never took history courses, did you. Then again, it's doubtful that you went to school . . . |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:08:05 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 21:36:51 2014. Private contractors in the business to make a profit that were the lowest bidders to build said schools and roads.But it was the government who paid for them, and the government who pays to maintain them. Teachers work for the government, and the government could have hired workers to build all that rather than contract the jobs out, usually at a greater price. The private enterprises that are in business of make a profit running railroads. I was referring to passenger trains. Private enterprises can't run those. It was the people employed by private enterprises that are in the business to make a profit that did all the work not the government employes that collected the taxes to pay for it. But it was the government who did pay for it— which means all those private enterprises who rely on it have no right to claim that they shouldn't be required to pay their fair share to keep it all functional. That was sort of the point of "you didn't build that," the quote Olog offered out of context. People will work and make things— governments and businesses are just different ways to organise production across a society so the right things are produced in the right quantities. Businesses have a built-in need to remain profitable, meaning that businesses will be more efficient at producing any goods or services where the production of said goods or services are profitable and profit correlates with quality and quantity produced up to the point where demand is met, with the correlation to quantity dropping off thereafter. Governments have less rigid constraints - a government that does bad things can continue doing bad things much longer than a company can remain unprofitable - but because they're not limited by the need to make a profit, a government can produce goods and services that are necessary but not profitable, and they can produce goods and services more efficiently than private enterprise if there's a more tenuous relationship between quality and profit. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:10:58 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:01:01 2014. The first roads were built by private companies who charged tolls.Most roads were not. California's road network used to be all tolled... Even local streets? What's the toll for Market Street from Montgomery to Dolores? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:12:13 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:04:29 2014. The real unemployment rate is about 30 percent.Congratulations. I'm sure you approve. |
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| (1236465) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:12:56 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:05:16 2014. So who do you think built the roads and the public schools? Who do you think makes sure the air and water are relatively unpolluted? Who do you think keeps the trains running?Do I need to add these to the List of Questions Olog Can't Answer? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 25 22:14:40 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:01:54 2014. Psssst! Retirees, bell curve time. |
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| (1236468) | |
Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:21:40 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:01:01 2014. He really isn't very smart. The first roads were built by private companies who charged tolls. California's road network used to be all tolled (surprising out of that state) until the state politicians read Marx and took them over.A considerable number of roads in the east during colonial time and shortly thereafter were also built and operated that way. Anybody into the history of transportation in the United states should read Americas Highways 1776-1976. I got my copy free for the asking from the Government Printing Office back in the early 1990s. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:29:02 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 25 22:14:40 2014. Psssst! Retirees, bell curve timeIt includes far more individuals that are in their prime working years. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:35:35 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:08:05 2014. But it was the government who paid for themWRONG!!! It was people that were taxed to provide the funds to pay for them. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:47:31 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:35:35 2014. WRONG!!! It was people that were taxed to provide the funds to pay for them.Well by that argument, capitalism is theft and the workers should own the means of production. I'm sure Olog would approve. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:08:44 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:35:35 2014. Taxes that they were ordered to pay, against their will, to the government by threat of violence. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:13:09 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:21:40 2014. A considerable number of roads in the east during colonial time and shortly thereafter were also built and operated that wayIndeed they were. One exception in New Jersey happens to be the Edgar Shunpike, where farmers organized collectively to donate land to get the road built, in "competition" with the Middlesex and Essex Turnpike. The Edgar Shunpike is now Edgar Road through Linden and Rahway (US 1&9), while the Middlesex & Essex Turnpike, apart from a short stretch in Iselin, is the Northeast Corridor of Amtrak/NJ Transit, having been converted to railroad by the New Jersey Railroad and subsequently taken over and upgraded by the Pennsylvania Railroad. |
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Re: "Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts" |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:13:56 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 22:04:29 2014. No, he didn't. Those outside the labor force don't count towards the unemployment rate.Still doesn't mean your intelligence and sanity rate is not pathetically low. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:15:10 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:08:44 2014. So I suppose my boss is stealing from me then? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 25 23:18:31 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:29:02 2014. Many many MANY jobs these days are 1099's and self-employed. Wonder if they're counting any of those even though they pay in double for SS taxes and such? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:20:04 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:15:10 2014. How do you figure? That post wasn't anti-tax. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:23:39 2014, in response to Re: "Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts", posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:13:56 2014. LOL! Still projecting, I see.Those outside the labor force don't count towards the unemployment rate You're a Nazi. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:26:55 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:35:35 2014. pwn3d. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:27:47 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Sand Box John on Sat Oct 25 22:29:02 2014. They've been saying that for years as well. Claiming "retirees" is a load of hot air. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:30:19 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:20:04 2014. "Ordered to pay against their will by threat of violence" sounds like robbery to me. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:30:47 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:23:39 2014. You're a Nazi.Godwin's law. You lose. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:31:23 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Olog-hai on Sat Oct 25 23:26:55 2014. Oh, so you are a communist? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:34:29 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:30:19 2014. To you, maybe. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:41:10 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:34:29 2014. How does it not? |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 00:10:19 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 23:41:10 2014. No immediate use of physical force. |
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More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 00:49:33 2014, in response to "Don't let anybody tell you that businesses creat jobs", posted by Dave on Sat Oct 25 08:43:42 2014. Sorry for hijacking the thread, but this is related.WSJ
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Nilet on Sun Oct 26 00:56:01 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Spider-Pig on Sun Oct 26 00:10:19 2014. Extortion, then. |
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Re: More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Sun Oct 26 00:59:53 2014, in response to More Americans renouncing citizenship because of greedy government, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 26 00:49:33 2014. Excellent! Then those former Americans can depend on their new home armies to protect them and their wealth. I'm sure the UN will come running to protect them. With ISIS looking for Americans and not giving a crap one way or another if they're somewhere else, they'll be spending all that money on private goons like the ones that protected Benghazi. Good night, and good luck. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Dave on Sun Oct 26 07:28:34 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by Nilet on Sat Oct 25 22:08:05 2014. I was referring to passenger trains. Private enterprises can't run those.Wrong Wrong again |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 08:07:03 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that businesses create jobs'', posted by SelkirkTMO on Sat Oct 25 23:18:31 2014. Many many MANY jobs these days are 1099's and self-employed.I'm well aware of that because as you know I am one of them. Wonder if they're counting any of those even though they pay in double for SS taxes and such? Nobody pays double the Social Security tax. The so called employers contribution is calculated in as part of the total cost of employing that labor. The employee never sees the itemized amount payed by the employer on their pay stub. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 08:23:32 2014, in response to Re: "Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts", posted by Spider-Pig on Sat Oct 25 23:13:56 2014. No, he didn't.Yes I did. Those outside the labor force don't count towards the unemployment rate. Those people want to be gainfully employed but have become so discouraged that they have stopped seeking employment and are no longer counted as unemployed. John in the sand box of Maryland's eastern shore. |
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Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'' |
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Posted by AlM on Sun Oct 26 08:44:58 2014, in response to Re: ''Don't let anybody tell you that Olog's 'brain' creates cogent thoughts'', posted by Sand Box John on Sun Oct 26 08:23:32 2014. Those people want to be gainfully employed but have become so discouraged that they have stopped seeking employment and are no longer counted as unemployed.There you have it. They are no longer counted as unemployed. This has been the standard federal government use of the word "unemployed" for many decades. Spider-Pig never said anything at all about the "civilian labor force participation rate." By the way, did you try extending the time period shown back to 1950? You can see that this rate correlates weakly with economic activity. You would see that the steepest climb ever was during the Carter Administration. |
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