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| Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. (1219666) | |
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| (1219931) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 21:49:40 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:42:25 2014. What makes you think that I do? That I'm calling them out on making city life impossible for millions? |
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| (1219932) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:49:52 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Aug 27 20:05:30 2014. If course, if they're having trouble hiring, they could raise wages, which would allow their employees to afford to live in a better location, but oh no, actually paying market wages would destroy the economy. Or so Fox News tells us. |
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| (1219933) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 21:51:56 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:43:42 2014. It's possible to have different entrances lead to the same elevators. Sounds over the top to me imo. |
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| (1219944) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 22:12:15 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ClearAspect on Wed Aug 27 20:34:00 2014. Yup. It's not a service entrance. It's a perfectly adequate entrance for the rent that they're paying. They're not entering through the loading dock. THAT would be wrong. |
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| (1219949) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 22:20:15 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by bingbong on Wed Aug 27 21:49:40 2014. They are not making city life impossible. It is not their duty to provide charity. |
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| (1219950) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 22:20:40 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by FtGreeneG on Wed Aug 27 21:51:56 2014. Well, yes but it would defeat the purpose here. |
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| (1219960) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 27 23:14:49 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:47:01 2014. 
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| (1219968) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 23:44:28 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Wed Aug 27 23:14:49 2014. FALSE! But leave it to you to fail to understand complexity. |
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| (1219975) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Wed Aug 27 23:51:53 2014, in response to Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 11:27:45 2014. The plan to allow developers to skirt some zoning laws in exchange for constructing X-number of affordable housing units as part of a larger condo development is a pretty good idea to promote the growth of "affordable housing".Building it separate is the ONLY way this will work. Nobody in their right mind will spend $25 million of their hard-earned money for a condo on the same floor as some random Joe Shmoe who won a lottery to rent an apartment on the same floor for $800 a month. The market-rate apartments will remain empty. The developer won't make any money. As long as the integration is forced, the development will stop, and the creation of new affordable housing units will cease. These are businesses, not charities. |
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| (1219984) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:23:46 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:45:22 2014. I'm not saying anyone's entitled to anything. But if you insist, "worker's control of the means of production!" Lulz.Back there, you suggested that poverty is one's fault when there are numerous extenuating circumstances for a good number of them. That's why I asked what I did and you didn't respond to that, you went off on some kind of Olog style insinuation instead. It's not about upper class, it's about affordability. And the lack of it in NYC is already strangling the "silicon alley" hipsters and others that were bringing tech to the city. They're leaving in droves. In fact, one of the guys that works for us taking care of our servers was working out of his apartment down in Brooklyn. When his rent blew past $2600 for a crappy old dump, he was amused to find out that he can rent an entire house up here for $1300 a month with a couple of acres of lawn. Guess where he is now? NYC needs to do something about the cost of housing and the amount of it or the "upper class" is going to have to do their own laundry soon. :) |
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| (1219986) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:26:49 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:49:52 2014. And that's precisely my own point. Something has to be done about, and the only solutions so far is calling low wage earners leeches or commies. The invisible black hand of the free marketplace is already taking care of that ... skilled workers realize that they don't have to put up with that shit, they move out. Suddenly employers are finding out that they're not getting such skilled workers any longer and THEY'RE moving out too.But let's not do anything about it. :( |
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| (1219990) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:28 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:23:46 2014. But if you insist, "worker's control of the means of production!" Lulz.He asked about Soviet apartments. What's the connection between workers controlling the means of production and the Soviet Union? |
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| (1219994) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:42 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 23:44:28 2014. I notice a distinct lack of actual reasoning in that post.You claimed: IF one believes hereditary socioeconomic status (born rich always rich, born poor always poor) is a form of discrimination similar to racism, THEN one would/should/must support enforcing hereditary socioeconomic status while giving gifts to the born poor. You have not successfully explained the relationship between the IF and the THEN. |
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| (1219996) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:51 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 21:45:22 2014. Why do people with rich parents feel entitled to upper class amenities? |
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| (1219997) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:38:21 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by G1Ravage on Wed Aug 27 23:51:53 2014. It's honestly good to see SOME way of solving that problem though even if it looks a bit rough on the outside. Folks are moving out of BK now because they can't afford it anymore. :( |
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| (1219998) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:40:51 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by G1Ravage on Wed Aug 27 23:51:53 2014. Actually, I'm pretty sure tax breaks are offered, not just relaxed zoning laws. |
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| (1220000) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:48:11 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:28 2014. About 400 rubles. :) |
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| (1220010) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Aug 28 02:26:39 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Aug 27 22:20:40 2014. Read the article on my phone not really able to get a great view of the apts. Just looked at the pics home the way the building is guess it sort of makes sense due to how the building is built. It's almost like 2 separate buildings in this instance. I would hope both sections of the building are maintained with the same quality. |
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| (1220011) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by FtGreeneG on Thu Aug 28 02:31:11 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 20:26:57 2014. yeah was able to look the pic of the building on a bigger screen when I got home and it certainly does look that way. I can understand the separate entrances the way the building was set up. |
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| (1220066) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 07:01:13 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:36:42 2014. No, I claimed that you seem to believe that, otherwise your post would be irrelevant to the topic. |
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| (1220067) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 07:03:36 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 07:01:13 2014. Or, in other words, you claimed:IF one believes hereditary socioeconomic status (born rich always rich, born poor always poor) is a form of discrimination similar to racism, THEN one would/should/must support enforcing hereditary socioeconomic status while giving gifts to the born poor. As noted, you have not successfully explained the relationship between the IF and the THEN. |
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| (1220070) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 07:06:46 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:23:46 2014. Because your post claimed that it was wrong to segregate housing based on income and/or wealth. That is the logical consequence of such a belief. |
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| (1220078) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by bingbong on Thu Aug 28 07:11:03 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 00:40:51 2014. At minimum they're writing off the difference between market rate and what the receive. That's a BIG chunk of money right there. |
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| (1220178) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 28 13:34:14 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:23:46 2014. When his rent blew past $2600 for a crappy old dump, he was amused to find out that he can rent an entire house up here for $1300 a month with a couple of acres of lawn. Guess where he is now?Does he go back to the city by car? When the NYC fad fades (which I think should be pretty soon), it's gonna get ugly. |
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| (1220179) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Aug 28 13:36:10 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 07:01:13 2014. Why try? |
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| (1220192) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 14:26:31 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 28 13:34:14 2014. It won't fade. Living in NYC is cool and living in the country is not. Now others will disagree, but those people never wanted to move to NYC in the first place. |
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| (1220194) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 14:27:59 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Thu Aug 28 07:03:36 2014. No, that is not what I claimed. That is what you claimed I claimed, and it is not up to me to defend your bullshit. |
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| (1220196) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by AlM on Thu Aug 28 14:36:18 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 14:26:31 2014. The NYC cost of housing is a real problem. On the other hand, it can't really hurt NYC's economic health too much, because if there is a net outflow, the cost of housing would go down.There is something of "New York? No one lives there; it's too crowded" about the whole issue. |
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| (1220200) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Aug 28 14:59:06 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Wed Aug 27 19:15:09 2014. That's one of the reasons why I think deBlasio's housing plan is doomed unless he changes strategy. Might be smarter to upzone height limits to 15 - 25 stories let's say, in neighborhoods that agree to it. Then allow high-rise luxury condo/rental building to be constructed in those newly rezoned areas. For that allowance luxury builders pay a fixed percentage into a fund to construct 'affordable' buildings elsewhere.The other reason is that I don't think we are capable of building 200,000 units of housing beacause of high taxes, land and construction costs. |
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| (1220201) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 15:00:27 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by AlM on Thu Aug 28 14:36:18 2014. Yes. Excellent post. The reason housing prices are too high is because of demand. There are issues with constrained supply regarding zoning, costs of construction, rent control, etc., but these aren't the primary reason. |
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| (1220209) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 15:27:37 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by 3-9 on Thu Aug 28 13:34:14 2014. Right now, he takes the train if he wants to go hang with friends. He's got the same deal with us as he had when he was down there, he commutes to his computer in the other room and we work. He does want to get a car, but has to learn to drive first. :) |
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| (1220210) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 15:29:02 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 07:06:46 2014. Yeah, turns out that I didn't quite get how things were set up there. We cool. :) |
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| (1220348) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 29 00:23:37 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Aug 28 00:38:21 2014. Also, "affordable" is in the eye of the beholder. What's affordable to me is not necessarily affordable to you. In a big city like New York, which features some of the highest home prices in the world, affordable could mean many things. But that's how things go in big cities. |
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| (1220351) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 29 00:42:56 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 29 00:23:37 2014. Yeah, I kinda blew town when I was paying half my monthlies to the landlord. For a dump in the Bronx. :( |
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| (1220357) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 01:26:30 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 29 00:23:37 2014. "Affordable" is really a nebulous term. Terms like middle or lower income housing are more accurate. Probably best would be to give it codes by income range.Your pal, Fred |
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| (1220358) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 01:26:30 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by G1Ravage on Fri Aug 29 00:23:37 2014. "Affordable" is really a nebulous term. Terms like middle or lower income housing are more accurate. Probably best would be to give it codes by income range.Your pal, Fred |
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| (1220359) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 01:27:23 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 01:26:30 2014. Ugh! I motormanned.Your pal, Fred |
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| (1220367) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 29 02:14:13 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 01:27:23 2014. "Motormanned"(verb) "To post multiple times with the same message and blame it on the phone."  Heh. NEW Subchat meme! :) Right up there with PROFF, let's abuse it! (grin) |
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| (1220390) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Fred G on Fri Aug 29 06:56:58 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 29 02:14:13 2014. Lol!!Lol!! Your pal, Fred |
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Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Aug 29 10:31:02 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by SelkirkTMO on Fri Aug 29 02:14:13 2014. E-MC2 |
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| (1220542) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Doors! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Fri Aug 29 14:08:29 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by ChicagoMotorman on Fri Aug 29 10:31:02 2014. E = γmc˛ for relativistic energy. |
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| (1220554) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Fri Aug 29 14:16:17 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Dan on Thu Aug 28 14:59:06 2014. For that allowance luxury builders pay a fixed percentage into a fund to construct 'affordable' buildings elsewhere.One of the problems I see with that is who is going to manage it and the resulting construction projects. There's a definite grain of truth w/ regards to govt corruption and incompetence, and I don't really trust them to be the main source of affordable housing. Plus, it increases the likelihood of all the "affordable" housing being crowded into specific areas (by NIMBYs and real estate interests) without the "same zone" limitation, thus increasing class divides and the possibilities of ghettoes. No, the current plan IMO has the best merits. |
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| (1222076) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:56:51 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Aug 28 14:27:59 2014. I stated this:If there's a separation between the people who are born rich and the people who are born poor and it's all but impossible to change one's socioeconomic status after birth, then that's just as bad as racism. How does that imply that the proper way to improve class mobility is by opposing it whilst providing the poor with gifts? |
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| (1222078) | |
Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio. |
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Posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:57:43 2014, in response to Re: Alas, Poor Door! I knew about affordable housing ratio., posted by Nilet on Tue Sep 2 19:56:51 2014. To clarify: That the proper way to improve class mobility is by opposing efforts to improve class mobility, while providing gifts to the poor people you are preventing from becoming wealthy? |
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