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I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014

fiogf49gjkf0d
About 3 Supreme Court justices who say a victim of child pornography can't get any restitution from a viewer. You'd think they'd be outraged at such a liberal approach to the law.




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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Apr 23 20:39:43 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They are waiting for the OFFICIAL talking points from Koch Central.

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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 23 21:09:16 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
That's your SCOTUS. Why are you waiting for the ones you label conservative to post about this when your fellow libs are busy spamming the board? Get a spine and stand up for what's right.

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_

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 21:15:24 2014, in response to , posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 23 21:09:16 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
So other than blaming somebody else, you have nothing to say about it?

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SCOTUS child porn case

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 23 21:16:59 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by RockParkMan on Wed Apr 23 20:39:43 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
The AP story has talking points aplenty; have at it.

High court nixes $3.4M award to child porn victim

Apr 23, 2014 5:38 PM EDT
By Mark Sherman
The Supreme Court on Wednesday rejected a plea to make it easier for victims of child pornography to collect money from people who view their images online, throwing out a nearly $3.4 million judgment in favor of a woman whose childhood rape has been widely seen on the Internet. Two dissenting justices said Congress should change the law to benefit victims.

The justices said in a 5-4 ruling that a 1994 federal law gives victims the right to seek restitution from offenders, but only to the extent that the victim's losses are tied to the offenders' actions. In this case, Doyle Randall Paroline was held liable by a federal appeals court for the entire amount of the woman's losses, though his computer contained just two images of her, among more than 150 illicit photographs.

The case involved a woman known in court papers by the pseudonym "Amy." Her losses for psychological care, lost income and attorneys' fees have been pegged at nearly $3.4 million, based on the ongoing Internet trade and viewing of images of her being raped by her uncle when she was 8 and 9 years old.

She said she was "surprised and confused" by the decision, according to a statement her lawyer posted online.

Justice Anthony Kennedy said for the court that the appellate judges went too far when they said that Paroline was responsible for all of the woman's losses, without determining how much harm he caused her. Kennedy said federal judges have to figure out the right amount, but he provided only "rough guideposts for determining an amount that fits the offense."

A federal judge now will work out what Paroline should pay the woman.

The ruling steered a middle ground between the woman's call for full restitution and Paroline's claim that there was no relationship between his conduct and the woman's losses, so that there should be no award of restitution. The case turned on the interpretation of the federal law granting restitution to victims of sex crimes, including child pornography.

Justices Samuel Alito, Stephen Breyer, Ruth Bader Ginsburg and Elena Kagan joined Kennedy's opinion.

Chief Justice John Roberts, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, said the restitution law as written should mean that Amy gets nothing. In a separate dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor said she would have upheld the full award.

Both Roberts and Sotomayor said Congress can rewrite the law to make it clearer. The U.S. Sentencing Commission has recommended that lawmakers eliminate confusion among federal judges about the right way to calculate restitution. "The statute as written allows no recovery; we ought to say so, and give Congress a chance to fix it," Roberts said.

Advocates for child pornography victims argued that holding defendants liable for the entire amount of losses better reflects the ongoing harm that victims suffer each time someone views the images online. The threat of a large financial judgment, coupled with a prison term, also might deter some people from looking at the images in the first place, the advocates said.

"It's significant that the Supreme Court said that based on this harm, you have a right to restitution," said Mai Fernandez, executive director of the National Center for Victims of Crime. "But there's no guarantee that she'll be able to collect the full amount that's owed to her." Fernandez also said Congress should write a clear formula into the law to make it easier to force offenders to pay.

Had the woman prevailed at the Supreme Court, courts would not have had to determine exactly how much harm any one defendant caused her. Instead, all defendants would have been liable for the entire outstanding amount, raising the possibility that a few well-heeled people among those convicted might contribute most, if not all, of the remaining restitution.

Kennedy said such an approach would undermine a purpose of restitution, which is to make defendants aware that their crimes have victims, because many offenders would have to pay nothing.

Still, he said, "the victim should someday collect restitution for all her child pornography losses, but it makes sense to spread payment among a larger number of offenders in amounts more closely in proportion to their respective causal roles and their own circumstances."

Paul Cassell, who argued the woman's case at the Supreme Court, posted her statement on the Volokh Conspiracy website. "I really don't understand where this leaves me and other victims who now have to live with trying to get restitution probably for the rest of our lives. The Supreme Court said we should keep going back to the district courts over and over again but that's what I have been doing for almost six years now," she said.

She has so far received more than $1.75 million from people convicted of possessing pornographic images of her, Cassell told the court. Of that total, $1.2 million came from one man, Arthur Staples, a Virginia sheriff's deputy who had more than $2 million in retirement savings.

The case is Paroline v. Amy Unknown and U.S., 12-8561.


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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 23 21:17:34 2014, in response to _, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Apr 23 21:15:24 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Am I on the Supreme Court? I put the blame where it lies.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Apr 23 23:57:27 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I know you mean me. I know I'm on your list of conservatives.

But I know nothing of this case. Nothing. I went swimming at the beach in Sarasota today and I'm having fun meeting new people almost daily.

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Re: AlM don't see any conservatives here complaining about a decision that came out today

Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Apr 23 23:58:46 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Apr 23 23:57:27 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
This decision came out today. But AlM couldn't wait to be a jerk.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by Easy on Thu Apr 24 00:00:16 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Only fake wannabe conservatives.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 00:11:41 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 24 00:00:16 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
There are a few of those, I noticed.

Do you want real conservatives here?

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by italianstallion on Thu Apr 24 00:13:42 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Chief Justice John Roberts, joined by Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas, said the restitution law as written should mean that Amy gets nothing. In a separate dissent, Justice Sonia Sotomayor said she would have upheld the full award.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by DAnD124 on Thu Apr 24 00:14:27 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Easy on Thu Apr 24 00:00:16 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
you think Olog is on the left?

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:21:59 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by DAnD124 on Thu Apr 24 00:14:27 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
There's a big difference between conservatives, reactionaries and outright crazies.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:22:56 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by italianstallion on Thu Apr 24 00:13:42 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
And they ALL agreed that the law needs a bit more salt.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 00:28:32 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:21:59 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Yes; the latter two are on the left.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:52:08 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 00:28:32 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Of course they are ... :)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 24 02:49:34 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 00:11:41 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I know you mean me as a fake conservative.

I'm a wannabe too. Want to fit in with the Limbaugh and Prager crowds, but I never will.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 03:26:22 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by LuchAAA on Thu Apr 24 02:49:34 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Nah ... EVERYBODY "fake conservative" in Olog's book. Numerous souls here have asked him to identify just ONE that he agrees is a "real conservative" besides himself. He's never reported a single one meeting his standard. Us mere mortals don't even stand a chance against the mighty Olog's ghods. :)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by mtk52983 on Thu Apr 24 06:14:43 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 03:26:22 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Actually I think he has used Mike Lee as an example

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by GP38/R42 Chris on Thu Apr 24 07:30:34 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by LuchAAA on Wed Apr 23 23:57:27 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I also know nothing of this case either. Doesn't seem all that interesting.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by bingbong on Thu Apr 24 09:56:38 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 00:28:32 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Only of you.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 11:49:54 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:21:59 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
real conservatives are NOTHING like what OLOG wants them to be.
REAL CONSERVATIVES are NOT REACTIONARY HATERS.
These PRETENDERS need to be taken out to the back..and horsewhipped.
ESPECIALLY OLOG.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 19:27:32 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by Edwards! on Thu Apr 24 11:49:54 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
They could use a few good men like him in Ukraine right now. :)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 19:30:30 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by mtk52983 on Thu Apr 24 06:14:43 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Heh. Yeah, looks like Olog is living in Bizarro world if that's the case. As just one example of where Lee is at, he's going after the Comcast/TimeWarner merger as unfair to kids whose parent may have to pay more for intertubes. Sounds mighty librul to me. :)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 24 19:54:14 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 00:52:08 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Did somebody just step right in it? :-)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by Olog-hai on Thu Apr 24 20:18:54 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 24 19:54:14 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
If you mean De Nile, then possibly.



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Re: I don't see any conservatives here

Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu Apr 24 20:31:52 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here, posted by 3-9 on Thu Apr 24 19:54:14 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Stepping is one thing. Doing an Irish jig in it quite entertaining indeed. :)

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 24 21:04:12 2014, in response to I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by AlM on Wed Apr 23 20:24:55 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
I happen to agree with them. You do not penalize a witness to a crime, you penalize the perpetrator. But, watching it IS a crime you say. Indeed it is, but it does not directly victimize the child in any direct way.

It's wrong to penalize someone simply for liking something just about all of decent society has declared grossly indecent.

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Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining

Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Thu Apr 24 21:06:55 2014, in response to Re: I don't see any conservatives here complaining, posted by italianstallion on Thu Apr 24 00:13:42 2014.

fiogf49gjkf0d
Remove the emotional aspect of child molestation and you can see that the three justices are right.

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