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TWA 800 |
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Posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013 The whistleblower team, which includes investigators-at the time-from the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB), TWA, and the Airline Pilots Association, have since retired from their positions. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 22:10:56 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. Should be interesting to see what they have to say about it. Two days after, I heard that a missile had been fired by a US Navy ship and when I dismissed it, was told "Look at who was ON the plane" ... I'll leave it there. The manifest was VERY interesting, particularly a "shipment of turtles" on board. Seriously. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by tonyg on Tue Jun 18 22:43:26 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 22:10:56 2013. Wasn't there a confirmed naval exercise going on off the coast of Long Island the night the plane crashed? Also, didn't several eyewitnesses see a missile like projectile?I think that the plane was shot down. I just don't know by who. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 22:48:15 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by tonyg on Tue Jun 18 22:43:26 2013. Yes there was, and yes they did. There were photos too published all over the intertubes of it. The passenger manifest though was the interesting part. Haven't seen any copies of that in years. However, biggie bigs were on that plane. Folks WE didn't like. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 18 22:54:42 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. The whole gas tank explosion theory to me seemed like they decided on a gas tank explosion idea then worked around it inventing a cause for the explosion. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 23:06:48 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. the flight i find suspicious is Swissair Flight 111. $400 million in diamonds were on the flight and never recovered and the mafia has a well known presence at JFK. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by jimmymc25 on Tue Jun 18 23:08:40 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 18 22:54:42 2013. I agree.Jimmymc25 |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 23:12:40 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Jeff Rosen on Tue Jun 18 22:54:42 2013. the same thing has happened to several other boeing planes so it's not a crazy concept/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thai_Airways_International_Flight_114 http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/us-aviation-safety-teams-to-probe-may-transmile-boeing-727-freighter-fuel-tank-explosion-in-india-206881/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Airlines_Flight_143 |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed Jun 19 03:41:39 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 23:06:48 2013. the flight i find suspicious is Swissair Flight 111. $400 million in diamonds were on the flight and never recovered and the mafia has a well known presence at JFK.I wouldn't think too much of that. Swissair (then) and SWISS International (now) regularly carry huge values of diamonds on their flights. The heist at the Belgian airport a few months ago was from a SWISS flight. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 19 08:59:15 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. Lets see! 17 years ago? That would be during the Clinton Administration, wouldn't it? Perhaps our military thought that the plane was a Somali Aspirin Factory. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by daNd124 on Wed Jun 19 14:03:19 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Charles G on Wed Jun 19 03:41:39 2013. why did the insurance company decide not to attempt to salvage the diamonds? if the official theory is correct then they should have survived the crash and be on the shallow ocean floor close to land. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jun 19 15:01:28 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 23:06:48 2013. If you look at what the Italian Mafia was in 1998, I don't think they would have been capable of anything this big at JFK. Maybe in the 60's and 70's, but not in the late 90's.Besides, it seems like every secret has been exposed with the highest levels of LCN all flipping. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 19 15:10:35 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. Why did a trans-Atlantic flight take off from a US Airport with it's center fuel tank empty. A typical trans-Atlantic crossing by a 747-400 can use as much as 36,000 gallons of fuel. The fuel Max capacity for a 747-400 without the center tank is about 48,000 gallons. At a consumption of 1 Gal/Sec that means just 3 hours of reserve fuel (approx). Again, why was that center tank empty as reported? |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Wed Jun 19 15:21:00 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 19 15:10:35 2013. Why did a trans-Atlantic flight take off from a US Airport with it's center fuel tank empty.To save on fuel. The lighter the plane, the less fuel it burns. Dispatchers calculate how much they need to get from point A to point B and that's it. |
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Posted by TonyG on Wed Jun 19 17:33:46 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 22:48:15 2013. Here's your passenger manifest:* Aikens-Bellamy, Sandra, 49, off-duty TWA employee, of New York City * Aikey, Jessica, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Alex, Christian, France Alexander, Matthew, 20, a student at Wake Forest University, Winston-Salem, N.C., traveling to Dijon, France, to study, of Florence, S.C. Allen, Ashton, 15, of Marietta, Ga. * Allen, Otis Lamar, of Marietta, Ga. (father of Ashton Allen). * Amlund, Svein, Norway * Anderson, J. Edward, 49, financial planner for Allmerica, of Warson Woods, Mo. (married to Patricia Anderson) * Anderson, Patricia, 42, of Warson Woods, Mo. (married to Jay Anderson) * Anderson, Seana Michele * Babb, David, 13, of Volant, Pa. (nephew of Clara and Namik Ersoz) * Baszczewski, Daniel, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Beatty, Charles, 50, senior systems engineer with the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren, Va.; of Spotsylvania, Va. * Becker, Michelle, 19, a student at Georgia State University in Atlanta, of St. Petersburg, Fla. * Bellazoug, Myriam, 30, architect, of Paris. Benjamin, Arthur, high school computer science teacher, of Philadelphia. Benjamin, Joan * Berthe, Line, Belleville, France * Berthe, Maurice, Belleville, France *Bluestone, Nicolas, Pound Ridge, N.Y. * Bohlin, Michelle, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Bossuyt, Luc, employee of Bristol-Myers, of Trumbull, Conn. * Bouhs, Leonie, France * Bower, Jordan, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Braman-Mosberg, Rosemary, 47, off-duty TWA employee, of Hoboken, N.J. * Breistroff, Michel, 25, French hockey player who graduated from Harvard in 1995 * Brooks, Edwin, 81, former executive vice president of Taco Industries, of Edgartown, Mass. (married to Ruth Brooks) * Brooks, Ruth, 79, of Edgartown, Mass. (married to Edwin Brooks) * Buttaroni, Mirko, 26, bank employee, of Fano, Italy (married to Monica Omiccioli). * Caillaud, Anthony, Cerizay, France * Caillaud, Daniel, Deux Sevres, France * Callas, Dan J. , 22, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Philadelphia * Campbell, Richard G. , 63, TWA Flight 800 flight engineer, of Ridgefield, Conn. Carven, Jay, 9, of Bel Air, Md. (son of Paula Carven) * Carven, Paula, off-duty TWA flight attendant and part-time real-estate agent, of Bel Air, Md. (mother of Jay Carven) * Cayrol, Jacques, Montpelier, France * Chaillou, Jenny, France * Chanson, Ludovic, 11, exchange student returning to family, of Garancieres, France * Charbonnier, Jacques, 66, TWA flight 800 crew, of Northport, N.Y. Charbonnier, Constance, 49, TWA flight 800 crew, of Northport, N.Y. * Chemtob, Monique, Los Angeles * Christopher, Janet, 48, TWA flight 800 crew, of Brodheadsville, Pa. * Coiner, Constance, 48, associate professor of English and literature at State University of New York at Binghamton, of Binghamton, N.Y. (mother of Ana Duarte Coiner) * Coiner, Ana Duarte, 12, of Binghamton, N.Y. (Constance Coiner's daughter) * Cox, Monica, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Crandell, Pamela, 28, a first-grade teacher, of Tracy Landing, Md. * Cremades, Daniel, France * Dadi, Marcel, 46, French musician who helped spread Chet Atkins' style of guitar-playing across Europe and was returning home after being honored at Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville, Tenn. * D'Alessandro, Anna, of Palo del Colle, Italy (married to Giuseppe Mercurio) * Darley, Francois, Grenoble, France * DeBoisredon, Cybele, Bordeaux, France * DeLange, Sylvain, Paris * DeLouvrier, Judith, 47, a philanthropist who was a trustee of her family's Philadelphia-based Connelly Foundation, of New York City * D'Huimieres, Dominiques, LePlessis, France * Dickey, Deborah, a French teacher at Montoursville school, of Williamsport, Pa. (married to Douglas Dickey) * Dickey, Douglas, of Williamsport, Pa. (married to Deborah Dickey) * D'Iorio, Christine Bailey, mother of four, waitress, of Prato, Italy (married to Pietro d'Iorio) * D'Iorio, Pietro, waiter, of Prato, Italy. (married to Christine Diiorio) * DiLuccio, Debra Collins, 47, TWA flight 800 crew, of Agropoli, Italy; formerly of Athens, Ga. * Dodge, Warren, 50, off-duty TWA employee, of Brentwood, N.H., and Ashland, Mass. * Dupont, Guy, France * Dwyer, Larkyn, 11, of New River, Ariz., was en route alone to visit relatives in Paris * Edwards, Daryl, 41, off-duty TWA service supervisor, Jersey City, N.J. * Ellison, Marie, Mount Vernon, N.Y. * Ersoz, Clara Jean, 59, anesthesiologist, of Pittsburgh (married to Namik Ersoz, aunt of David Babb). * Ersoz, Namik, 64, anesthesiologist, of Pittsburgh (married to Clara Ersoz, uncle of David Babb) * Eshleman, Douglas A. , 35, off-duty TWA flight engineer, of Aurora, Colo. * Estival, Alexandre * Feeney, Deirdre, 17, New Hyde Park, N.Y. (daughter of Vera Feeney) * Feeney, Kathleen, New Hyde Park, N.Y. Feeney, Vera, 56, home-care nurse, New Hyde Park, N.Y. (mother of Dierdre Feeney) * Ferrat, Mohammad, Ivory Coast * Foster, Rod, 61, corporate pilot for Dassault Falcon Jet Co., of Sherman, Conn. * Foulon, Didier, France * Fry, Carol, former school board member, Montoursville, Pa. * Furlano, Rosaria Pares, France * Gabor, Daniel, 27, ran middle-distances for University of Arkansas, of Fayetteville, Ark., and Walnut Creek, Calif. * Gaetke, Dan, 33, owned landscaping business and taught elementary school art; of Kansas City, Mo. Traveling to France to study gardens with wife. (married to Stephanie Gaetke) * Gaetke, Stephanie, 33, owned landscaping business; of Kansas City, Mo. (wife of Dan Gaetke, cousin of Chrisha and Brenna Siebert). * Gallagher, Claire, student from Montoursville, Pa. Galland, Jean Paul * Gasq, Clair, France * Gasq, Francis, Palm Harbor, Fla. * Gough, Analei Ralli, off-duty TWA flight attendant, of Mill Valley, Calif. (married to Donald Gough) * Gough, Capt. Donald, off-duty TWA pilot, of Mill Valley, Calif., and Incline Village, Nev. (married to Analei Gough) * Graham, Steven, 38, a marketing director for the long-distance phone company Ameritel, of Napa, Calif. * Gray, Charles H. III, 47, president and chief operating officer of Midland Financial Group, Inc., of Little Rock, Ark. * Greene, Renee, North Woodmere, N.Y. * Griffith, Donna, Westhampton, N.Y. * Griffith, Joanne, 39, off-duty TWA employee, of Brooklyn, N.Y. * Grimm, Julia, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Grivet, Cyril, senior lab technician at Carnegie Institution lab at Stanford University, Stanford, Calif. * Gustin, Anne, Tampa, Fla. * Hammer, Beverly, 59, of Long Beach, N.Y. (mother of Tracy Hammer) * Hammer, Tracy, 29, graduate student in microbiology and veterinary medicine at Michigan State University, of Long Beach, N.Y. (daughter of Beverly Hammer) * Hansen, Lars, Groenbakken, Norway Harkness, Eric, 23, off-duty TWA employee, of Columbus, Ohio. * Harris, Chelsea, New York, N.Y. * Harris, Lawrence, New York * Haurani, Dr. Ghassan, of Grosse Pointe Shores, Mich. (married to Nina Haurani) * Haurani, Nina, of Grosse Pointe Shores, Mich., mother of four in their teens and early 20s. (married to Ghassan Haurani) * Hazelton, Sandra, of Beachwood, Ohio, a high school French teacher taking her daughter to Paris as a college graduation gift. (mother of Katrina M. Rose) * Hettler, Rance, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Hill, Susan, police detective in Portland, Ore. * Hochard, Jean-Pierre, France * Hogan, David, of Paris, a Virginia-born composer who studied at the Peabody Institute in Baltimore * Holst, Eric, 32, dentist, Manorville, N.Y. (husband of Virginia Holst) * Holst, Virginia, 31, merchandise distributor, Manorville, N.Y. (wife of Eric Holst) * Hull, James, 48, off-duty TWA employee, of Southampton, Pa. Hurd, James III, manager of a family automotive shop in Glen Burnie, Md. * Ingenhuett, Lonnie, 43, off-duty TWA employee, of Scottsdale, Ariz. * Jacquemot, Benoit, France * Jensen, Suzanne, 31, associate at G.E. Capital, of Greenwich, Conn. * Johns, Courtney, 18, recent graduate of Marian High School in Bloomfield Hills, Mich., who planned to attend Villanova University in the fall, of Clarkston, Mich. * Johnsen, Arlene E. , 60, TWA Flight 800 flight attendant, owned a bed and breakfast, of Grand Junction, Colo. * Johnson, Eleanor, 50, retired vice president of editing firm, of Springfield, Va. (married to Leonard Johnson) * Johnson, Jed, 47, interior designer, of New York. Johnson, Leonard, 53, mechanical engineer, of Springfield, Va. (married to Eleanor Johnson) * Jones, Ramona, 61, retired hospital employee; West Hartford, Conn. * Karschner, Amanda, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Kevorkian, Capt. Ralph G. , 58, TWA Flight 800 pilot, of Garden Grove, Calif. * Krick, Oliver, 25, TWA Flight 800 flight engineer, of St. Louis. * Krikhan, Margot, 51, a bookkeeper at the Montessori School in Washington, Conn., of Brookfield, Conn. * Krukar, Andrew, 40, an engineer at the Torrington Co. in Watertown, Conn., of Bridgewater, Conn. * Kwan, Barbara, 40, off-duty TWA employee, of Scottsdale, Ariz. * Kwiat, Kimberly, 26, of Briarcliff Manor, N.Y. (sister of Patricia Kwiat) * Kwiat, Patricia, 21, student at Notre Dame University, of Briarcliff, N.Y. (sister of Kimberly Kwiat) * Labys, Jane, 51, a real estate agent from Morgantown, W.Va. * Lacailledesse, Antoine, France * LaForge, Alain, Hermelinghen, France * Lamour, Yvon, France * Lang, Raymond, 51, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Tafton, Pa. * Lockhart, Maureen, 49, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Merriam, Kan. * Loffredo, Elaine, 50, off-duty TWA employee, of Glastonbury, Conn. * Lohan, Britta, Barcelona, Spain * Loo, Patricia, 55, retired researcher for the pharmacological firm Ciba-Geigy, of Springfield, N.J. * Loudenslager, Jody, Trout Run, Pa. * Lucien, Dalila, 17, daughter of jazz singer Jon Lucien and niece of saxophone player Wayne Shorter, who were not on the flight. (niece of Anna Maria Shorter) * Luevano, Jr., Elias, 42, off-duty TWA employee, of Albuquerque, N.M. * Lychner, Katherine, 8, of Houston (daughter of Pam Lychner) * Lychner, Pamela, 37, prominent Texas crime victims rights advocate, of Houston (mother of Shannon and Katie Lychner). * Lychner, Shannon, 10, of Houston (daughter of Pam Lychner) * Manchuelle, Francois, New York, N.Y. * Maresq, Etienne, Planquary, France * Maresq, Nicolas, France * Martin, Betty Ruth, 69, of Belleville, Ill. * Mazzola, Salvator, 36, of Palermo, Italy. * McPherson, Pamela Cobb, 45, off-duty TWA employee, of New York City * Meade, Sandra, 42, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Camano Island, Wash. * Melotin, Grace, 48, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Corona, N.Y.; Jupiter, Fla. Mercurio, Giuseppe, of Palo del Colle, Italy, produce-stand worker and part-owner of jewelry store near Bari, Italy (married to Anna d'Alessandro) * Merieux, Rudolphe, son of the president of the pharmaceutical company Merieux Laboratories in Lyons, France (his father was not on the plane) Meshulam, Avishaim * Michel, Pascal, Montpellier, France * Miller, Amy, 29, hardware store comptroller, of Andreas, Pa. (married to Kyle Miller) * Miller, Elizabeth, in her 50s, of Tenafly, N.J. (married to Robert Miller) * Miller, Gideon, 57, off-duty TWA pilot, of Sarasota, Fla. * Miller, Joan, Fairfield, Conn. * Miller, Kyle, 29, hardware store co-owner, of Andreas, Pa. (married to Amy Miller; their trip was to celebrate fifth wedding anniversary) * Miller, Robert, 62, Tenafly borough administrator, of Tenafly, N.J. (married to Elizabeth Miller). Murta, Angela * Nelson, Alecia, New York Nelson, Twyla, New York * Nibert, Cheryl, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Notes, Gadi, 29, senior associate at investment banking division of Donaldson, Lufkin & Jenrette, Inc., Israeli citizen; New York. O'Hara, Caitlin, 13, of Irvington, N.Y. (daughter of Janet and John O'Hara). O'Hara, Janet, 39, of Irvington, N.Y. (wife of John O'Hara). * O'Hara, John, 39, executive producer at ABC Sports, of Irvington, N.Y. (husband of Janet O'Hara, father of Caitlin O'Hara) * Olsen, Rebecca Jane, 20, junior history major at University of Georgia, of Macon, Ga. * Omiccioli, Monica, 23, seamstress, of Fano, Italy (married to Mirko Buttaroni) * Orman, Alan, New Hyde Park, N.Y. * Ostachiewicz, Elsie, New York Unnamed passenger flying with Elsie Ostachiewicz * Paquet, Huguette, France * Paquet, Ingrid, France * Pares, Serge, New Haven, Conn. * Penzer, Judy, 49, artist and muralist, Pittsburgh and Lawrence, N.Y. * Percy, Marion, Hastings-on-Hudson, N.Y. * Pohlmann, Rico, 62, fashion photographer, of New York City and Berlin Price, Dennis, investment manager, of Englewood, Colo. (married to Peggy Price) * Price, Peggy, United Airlines flight attendant, of Englewood, Colo. (married to Dennis Price) * Privette, Glenda, 46, recently resigned as personnel manager at Beaulieu Carpet Plant in Bridgeport, Ala., of Stevenson, Ala. (mother of Thomas Weatherby) * Puichaud, Elizabeth, France * Remy, Jacqueline, France * Rhein, Kirk (Clyde) Jr. , 43, president and chief executive of the Danielson Holding Corp., an New York insurance company, and a partner in the New York investment firm Whitman, Heffernan, Rhein & Co., of Darien, Conn. * Rhoads, Marit, 48, TWA Flight 800 crew, Bellevue, Wash. (married to Scott Rhoads) * Rhoads, Scott, 48, schoolteacher, Bellevue, Wash. (married to Marit Rhoads). Richey, Brent * Richter, Annelyse, Brousse, France * Richter, Noemie, Brousse, France * Rio, Celine * Rogers, Kimberly, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Rojany, Yon, 19, headed to Rome to try out for European basketball team, of Los Angeles * Romagna, Barbara, 76, of Sun City Center, Fla. Rose, Katrina M. , 26, of Cleveland Heights, Ohio. (daughter of Sandra Hazelton) * Rupert, Judith, high school secretary, Montoursville, Pa. * Schuldt, Michael, 51, TWA Flight 800 Crew, Safety Harbor, Fla. * Scott, Barbara, 39, registered nurse, of Stevenson, Ala. (married to Michael Scott) * Scott, Joseph, 13, of Stevenson, Ala. (son of Michael and Barbara Scott). * Scott, Michael, 44, physicist, of Stevenson, Ala. (married to Barbara Scott) * Shorter, Anna Maria, of Los Angeles, wife of saxophone player Wayne Shorter who was not on the flight (aunt of Dalila Lucien) * Siebert, Brenna, 25, veterinary clinic worker in Jefferson City, Mo., of Holts Summit, Mo. (sister of Chrisha Siebert, cousin of Stephanie Gaetke) * Siebert, Chrisha, 28, taught theater at Rockhurst College, of Kansas City, Mo. (sister of Brenna Siebert, cousin of Stephanie Gaetke) * Silverman, Candace, 22, of Los Angeles (daughter of Eugene and Marietta Silverman) Silverman, Eugene, 54, a Bel-Air, Calif., tax attorney (married to Marietta Silverman, father of Candace and Jamie) * Silverman, Jamie, 15, of Los Angeles (daughter of Eugene and Marietta Silverman) * Silverman, Marietta (Etta) , 53 (married to Eugene Silverman, mother of Candace and Jamie) * Simmons, Olivia, 50, schoolteacher and off-duty part-time TWA employee, Orange, N.J. * Skojold, Kristina, Sweden Snyder, Capt. Steven, 57, TWA Flight 800 pilot, Stratford, Conn. Story, William R. , president and chief executive officer of National American Insurance Co. of California. * Straus, Carine, Paris * Teang, Lydie, France * Teang, Rachama-Chan, France * Thiery, Josette, France * Tofani, Mauro, 46, a cloth merchant, of Prato, Italy. * Torche, Melinda, 47, TWA Flight 800 crew, Mission Viejo, Calif. * Uzupis, Larissa, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Van Epps, Lois, mid-50s, English teacher at Edgemont Junior and Senior High School in Scarsdale, N.Y., of New York City * Verhaeghe, Rick L. , off-duty TWA flight officer, 48, Goldsboro, N.C. * Von Hedrich, Joseph, Bel Air, Md. * Warren, Lani, 48, off-duty TWA flight service manager, San Diego, Calif. * Watson, Jacqueline, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Watson, Jill, 32, architect, of Pittsburgh; daughter of ThermoKing president James F. Watson (father was not on the flight) * Weatherby, Thomas, 13, of Stevenson, Ala. (son of Glenda Privette). Weaver, Monica, student from Montoursville, Pa. * Windmiller, Ruben, New Rochelle, N.Y. * Wolfson, Eleanor, chaperone of Montoursville, Pa., school group (mother of Wendy Wolfson) * Wolfson, Wendy, student from Montoursville, Pa. (daughter of Eleanor Wolfson) * Wolters, Bonnie, 44, of New York City, a bond trader engaged to be married to a judge who was not on the flight but had planned to join her in France next week. Yee, Judith, 53, former personnel executive with Bristol-Myers Corp., of New York City Zara, Jean * Ziemkiewicz, Jill, 24, TWA Flight 800 crew, of Rutherford, N.J. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 19 17:48:54 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by TonyG on Wed Jun 19 17:33:46 2013. Yep ... interesting note though if you found the "official" ... one person is "unidentified" for "security reasons" ... try this list, and look for "[Name of one passenger withheld in AP wires]" in the listing. This is the one that had one of my spook buddies going strong when it happened. Can't say much more than that.http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/CRASH/TWA/PASSENGERS.html Beyond that one morsel of "hmmmm" I really don't want to say any more about it. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by TonyG on Wed Jun 19 19:37:51 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 19 17:48:54 2013. This morsel is also interesting:"05- Beatty, Charles, 50, senior systems engineer with the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Dahlgren, Va.; of Spotsylvania, Va." |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jun 19 19:40:34 2013, in response to TWA 800, posted by Dave on Tue Jun 18 22:02:46 2013. What's interesting is the plane only had a couple hours rest between fights! Always thought with Trans - Atlantic flights, the actual planes themselves rest for at least a day before flying again, I could see shuttles around the northeast doing multiple fights a day, but I'm honestly shocked that these long distance flights to other countries have such short rest, that plane got to JFK at 4:30PM and the fight to Paris was at 7PM.I'm shocked no one survived this crash, especially since people got to the crash site minutes after it happened, I would have thought at least couple of people would have survived as they was still on the plane and it took the brunt of the fall. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed Jun 19 20:11:50 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by TonyG on Wed Jun 19 19:37:51 2013. Yep ... but it was supposedly the "mystery guest" that had spooks wagging. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by AlM on Wed Jun 19 20:18:18 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by TonyG on Wed Jun 19 19:37:51 2013. The defense industry employs millions of Americans. Any random collection of 200 Americans OUGHT to include 1 or 2 people from it. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Wed Jun 19 20:41:27 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by AlM on Wed Jun 19 20:18:18 2013. Try 5 or 10. AT LEAST. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by trains61 on Thu Jun 20 03:48:59 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Wed Jun 19 19:40:34 2013. Planes don`t make money on the ground. If no scheduled/must do Mx, off it goes again. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by trains61 on Thu Jun 20 03:58:23 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Train Dude on Wed Jun 19 15:10:35 2013. Maybe because it wasn`t empty? Typically you burn fuel from the center tank first and then the wings.Back then fuel was cheaper, so dispatchers would load up on fuel, when/where available and cheap.) Pending weather/cargo and pax loads etc... (Answer to Luch) |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jun 20 04:57:41 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by trains61 on Thu Jun 20 03:48:59 2013. Exactly. If the planes had to spend a day on the ground to "rest" between trips (since when do inanimate objects need rest?), airplane fleets would have to be twice as large as they are already. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 09:10:47 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by trains61 on Thu Jun 20 03:48:59 2013. I'm not that knowledgeable of Airplane operations so that's why I was taken back by it. Especially considering how fragile Airplanes "seem" to be compared to the other modes of public transportation. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 09:14:58 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jun 20 04:57:41 2013. since when do inanimate objects need rest?Are you serious? I have heard that subway cars that ran for several days straight start to get sluggish after a while, so obviously some inanimate objects do need rest for them to have the best performance. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Fred G on Thu Jun 20 11:03:20 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 09:14:58 2013. There's a maintenance schedule and between visits to the shop, those machines are run as often as possible.your pal, Fred |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jun 20 11:20:24 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 09:14:58 2013. I have heard that subway cars that ran for several days straight start to get sluggish after a whileSource? It has been posted here in the past that depending on how the runs fall out, a subway train can remain in service for days at a time without a visit to the yard if there are no mechanical issues with the set. Take a look at FlightAware and you'll get a sense as to how much time planes spend in the air. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 20 13:53:16 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jun 20 11:20:24 2013. True enough. I've been tracking American Airlines planes that have been painted into the new livery (there's a frequently updated thread on Airliners.net that gives the reg. #s). I started doing it because I can often see planes on final to runway 9 at MIA from the parking lot at my job, and depending on the time of day, might be able to get a pic (gotten 4 so far, 3 737-800s and one 767-300). But an unintended side effect is, I get to see how these planes are being utilized. Some days there are like 5-6 segments for one plane! (only the 737s, the 777s generally do one, maybe 2 segments a day, same for the 767s if they are international). |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Thu Jun 20 14:06:56 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 20 13:53:16 2013. The international schedules usually only permit one RT per 24 hours, but they are still being utilized most of the time.In Europe, many carriers with service to the Middle East run those flights overnight, one of the reasons is fleet utilization (the other is less fuel is required in desert climates for nighttime takeoffs). |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 14:33:21 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 20 13:53:16 2013. I tracked American Airlines jet B772, it did a flight from Tokyo to JFK. I noticed it went via Canada and back down to get to Tokyo, I guess they don't like flying over the Pacific Ocean.Plane got to NY at 7PM last night and its still don't takeoff for another 5 hours, as a matter of, it takes off at 7PM tonight, 24 hours after it landed! This particular B772 plane, seems to be used exclusively for JFK - Tokyo fights and it has almost 24 hours of rest between flights when its in NY. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Fri Jun 21 10:13:27 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by FYBklyn1959 on Thu Jun 20 13:53:16 2013. Check this out.That's 8 cycles* in one calendar day! (though that first SFO-LAX flight is pretty much a holdover from yesterday's schedule, but since it departed after midnight, FlightAware counts it under today. *-A cycle = 1 takeoff + 1 landing (hopefully, a flight has one of each) :) And it looks like that 1 AM SFO-LAX was a deadhead move. Wonder why they had to move that plane down to LAX at that hour when the first flight for today was at 10 AM EDT. I would think AA would have some other 738s around LAX. Maybe not. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by JohnL on Sat Jun 22 19:30:23 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 14:33:21 2013. I tracked American Airlines jet B772, it did a flight from Tokyo to JFK. I noticed it went via Canada and back down to get to Tokyo, I guess they don't like flying over the Pacific Ocean.That's because the plane took the shortest distance. It doesn't appear obvious on a flat map. Try using Google Earth (the stand-alone program) and the route is obvious! |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by trains61 on Sat Jun 22 20:42:41 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 14:33:21 2013. John L gave you one answer.They match aircraft to the route structure. You can`t fly a 777 JFK-BOS and make a profit. They also don`t have hourly departures to Tokyo. So aircraft sits for 24 hours until the next flt to Tokyo to get the most bang for the buck(Profitablity). However while sitting on the ground it`s not making any money, but in this scenario it`s not losing money either. Unless there are unschecduled Mx cost... |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Dave on Sat Jun 22 22:10:46 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by JohnL on Sat Jun 22 19:30:23 2013. Google "Great Circle Navigation." |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 23 03:09:34 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Thu Jun 20 14:33:21 2013. This is too small a sample to be noteworthy.USAirways planes sit on the ground in Tel Aviv for 9 hours before heading back to the US. They sit on the ground in Rio de Janerio for about 12 hours, and then have to wait for the afternoon bank of flights to Europe to take off again (though sometimes they'll fly down to Orlando during the day to keep the plane moving). The reason for this is that travelers generally prefer overnight flights to/from Europe and southern South America. Same probably goes for NY-Tokyo. USAirways got stuck with a daytime slot for their Sao Paulo-Charlotte flight, would you prefer an 8:30 AM departure and spend your entire day on a plane or would you prefer a 10 PM departure and get to the US early the next morning? In the case of the day flights from Tel Aviv to the US, they are always the least expensive to get a ticket for because they have the lowest demand. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Mtk52983 on Sun Jun 23 09:52:17 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 23 03:09:34 2013. Not to mention in the warmer climates and higher altitudes airlines want late night departures as the fuel needed is less |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 23 10:04:35 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Mtk52983 on Sun Jun 23 09:52:17 2013. Also true |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 11:39:27 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by JohnL on Sat Jun 22 19:30:23 2013. Ok. For some reason I thought whoever decides the routing for these flights routed them that way is because they don't want a flight that long to fly over the Pacific and get a mechanical problem while its in the middle of the ocean, and there's no land mass close enough for the plane to make a emergency landing. I just checked Flightaware and LAX - Tokyo flights take the same routing. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Jun 23 11:53:10 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 11:39:27 2013. I just checked Flightaware and LAX - Tokyo flights take the same routing.Try Tokyo to LAX and see if you get the same routing. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 23 12:18:08 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 11:39:27 2013. Google ETOPS... |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 15:18:09 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by Stephen Bauman on Sun Jun 23 11:53:10 2013. I did, wow, lol. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 15:19:57 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by WMATAGMOAGH on Sun Jun 23 12:18:08 2013. Googled it, interesting read on the wiki page.. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Sun Jun 23 15:43:21 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 15:19:57 2013. That is just another example of why WMATAGMOAGHOOI is an Adjunct (Associate) Member of the LOA. I am seriously considering him for a Permanent (Non-Tenured) slot. He has demonstrated he is fully capable of said status as evidenced by his nonpareil which means unequaled technical grasp of high bypass fan electronic fuel control systems and general wide-body knowledge. That said, he needs to come strong since LuchAAA and JayZeeBMT, the noted playwright, Progressive activist, and enlightened voice of the LGBTQIA Community who remains the only Dual Threat member of the LOL and LOA, have set the bar high. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 23 17:16:38 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by cortelyounext on Sun Jun 23 15:43:21 2013. You can hear me speaking to the LGBTQIA community with my "enlightened voice" next Sunday at NYC Pride, on the stage located at W. 13th and Hudson Streets:
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by cortelyounext on Sun Jun 23 17:28:38 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 23 17:16:38 2013. I was hoping Delvon and that On the Down Low guy were planning to share the platform, literally and figuratively. That would be rich. Oh well, I'll be out in San Francisco next Sunday so I guess that means I'll be on Hudson and W. 13th in spirit y'all know what I'm talking about. I just know you will represent all of us on this board with singular pride and purpose. Don't go saying anything stupid, Nathan. |
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Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Sun Jun 23 17:37:31 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by cortelyounext on Sun Jun 23 17:28:38 2013. I will at all times be mindful and circumspect in my remarks. In addressing the assembled multitudes of the largest gathering of the LGBTQIA community in the US, I will speak equality, unity, and love, and proudly proclaim my dual-threat status as a member of the LOL/LOA on SubChat. :) |
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SwissAir 111 Documentary Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by daNd124 on Sun Jun 23 17:53:54 2013, in response to Re: TWA 800, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 23:06:48 2013. |
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Re: SwissAir 111 Documentary Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by r33/r36 mainline on Sun Jun 23 18:58:02 2013, in response to SwissAir 111 Documentary Re: TWA 800, posted by daNd124 on Sun Jun 23 17:53:54 2013. You're post motivated me to watch the crash documentry for the Concord Plane, was always reminded of that crash when I walked past the one on display on 42nd street.Its crazy they retired the entire fleet shortly after that one plane crashed. |
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Re: SwissAir 111 Documentary Re: TWA 800 |
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Posted by LuchAAA on Mon Jun 24 01:50:01 2013, in response to SwissAir 111 Documentary Re: TWA 800, posted by daNd124 on Sun Jun 23 17:53:54 2013. thanks. i am going to get around to watching it on Monday or Tuesday. |
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