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| Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead (1074276) | |
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Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013 http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/06/dont-want-corporations-to-have-rights-then-the-aclu-suit-is-dead/276917/ |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 13:20:45 2013, in response to Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013. I know someone is going to jump in and say "But the ACLU represents PEOPLE."Bingo. That was just the point of "Citizens United." The PEOPLE in Citizens United were denied their free speech rights because they wanted to express them through a CORPORATION. Yes, yes. But the ACLU is DIFFERENT. Sure is, it's a LIBERAL Organization. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 18 13:33:37 2013, in response to Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013. If not for CU then the ACLU would have to act solely as attorney and not also plaintiff then. IOW another person would have to be the plaintiff and the suit would go forward.your pal, Fred |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 13:51:33 2013, in response to Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013. If you actually read the article you would have been reminded that this was all about a blackout period where running such a movie, along with all other campaign focused speech was banned. What we had here was a blanket decision based on a group's desire to politick "behind that perimeter at the polls".Citizens is inherently flawed. It is judicial overreaching beyond the pale. Any TRUE non-profit group (which mandates charitable work, above and beyond solely political activity) should be able to engage in political activity WITHIN THE LAW which includes legitimate blackout periods. No for profit corporation should have those rights OR be permitted to establish shells. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 13:54:49 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 18 13:33:37 2013. Quite true.The author does have a small point. Would you want the NSA to be allowed to spy on every corporation? But Congress could extend that protection in ordinary law, rather than in the Constitution. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:02:20 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 13:20:45 2013. That's wrong. The "people" in Citizens United sought to politick unlawfully. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 18 14:08:10 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:02:20 2013. Why is everyone always wrong but you? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:21:38 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 18 14:08:10 2013. If you read the article you'd know I was simply stating the facts around Citizens. Do you have a problem with facts? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 14:55:56 2013, in response to Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013. Non-profit advocacy groups, legal aid organizations, charities, churches and the press have always had First Amendment rights as entities similar to those of physical people.This has nothing to do with Citizens United and opaque corporate money fueling political campaigns. The ACLU doesn't run campaign ads in favor of individual candidates or political parties. They are non-partisan. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:47:33 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Fred G on Tue Jun 18 13:33:37 2013. Precisely ... a nice little bit of irony that wouldn't have made any difference. CU lets them take the bull by the horns directly instead of having to put one of thousands of other names in that "Plaintiff(s)" column.Gotta love the simple minds of conservatives. :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:47:40 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:02:20 2013. What did they do that was unlawful? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:49:04 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:47:33 2013. Gotta love the impartiality of "progressives." :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:50:50 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 13:51:33 2013. One of the issues of Citizens United was that news CORPORATIONS are able to politick right up to the last minute, as partisan as they like. Of course, Fox News notwithstanding, news CORPORATIONS as a whole trend left. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 15:54:10 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:50:50 2013. CU was NOT a news organization. IT was one of those phony "nonprofits" RWers love whose sole purpose was character assassination.The only mass market news organization that was politicking to the last minute was Fox. The others were reporting things as they were. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:54:25 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:47:40 2013. Endorsing and working for specific candidates, instead of "educating on strictly issues." That's the problem. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:55:24 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:49:04 2013. I dunno ... I see a lot of impartiality out of "conservatives" too ... welcome to Hatfield/McCoy politics, bro ... |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:56:04 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 14:55:56 2013. The ACLU doesn't run campaign ads in favor of individual candidates or political parties.They are non-partisan. There is a difference between advocacy and non-partisan advocacy. The ACLU picks and chooses the causes it wishes to take on. Every now and then they take on a controversial case that's on the right, but they pick and choose those as well. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 15:58:24 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:47:40 2013. They tried to run an obviously political character assassination movie during an established politicking blackout, IIRC the day of a primary. They sued when they were stopped. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:59:19 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:54:25 2013. That was not the issue that went to the Supreme Court; it was their wanting to run a movie about Hillary "too close" to the election, which was only illegal because they were a corporation.The Supreme Court agreed with them and disagreed with Bingbong. Saying what they did was "unlawful" is, legally, like saying a man is a murderer after he's been acquitted. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:00:53 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 15:58:24 2013. But the Supreme Court agreed with them, so it was the law that was unconstitutional, not Citizens United that was unlawful.And political character assassination movies are not unlawful. Ask Michael Moore. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 16:04:14 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:59:19 2013. It was illegal because it was politicking during a legal blackout period. They ran their POS before and after during the 2008 primary campaign.SCOTUS came up with a BAD decision that was overly broad and overly generalized. No individual is allowed to politick "behind the sign" to the point of having to remove a lapel pin or such on their own bodies. If it's illegal for individuals, it's got to be illegal for corporations, real or imagined, as well. And finally, OJ Simpson. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:05:09 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 15:55:24 2013. welcome to Hatfield/McCoy politics, broWell sure ... the Hatfields and McCoys would run like rabbits from hounds if they had to fight on SubChat. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Jun 18 16:05:13 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:21:38 2013. You certainly don't seem to be on a first name basis with them. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:09:56 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 16:04:14 2013. OK, you're right and SCOTUS is wrong. Even if you (or I) think they're wrong about one decision or another (the Eminent Domain decision was incredible) when I say they're wrong, nothing happens. When they say I'm wrong, it's the LAW.What are you talking about "if it's illegal of individuals, it's illegal for corporations"? THAT was just the point. It wasn't illegal for individuals. Your "behind the sign" analogy fails because the "sign" is a few hundred feet from the polling place. Are you contending Citizens United wanted to show their movie at the polls? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:11:22 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 15:54:10 2013. There's the real world, and then there's BingBong World. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 16:12:04 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:00:53 2013. Doesn't mean that SCOTUS was right in their decision. It is judicial overreaching.I didn't say anything about the movie other than it was a political character assassination movie (fact), the issue was WHEN they were going to show it. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 16:19:16 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:56:04 2013. The ACLU picks and chooses the causes it wishes to take on.that's what they're supposed to do. That's their reason for existing. the "Civil Liberties" part in "American Civil Liberties Union" is kind of a giveaway. What would you have them do? File a brief in favor of the Govt in the NSA case? Defend correctional departments over abused inmates? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:24:44 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 14:02:20 2013. There's no such thing as unlawful free speech. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:25:48 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 16:12:04 2013. The SCOTUS is always right, by definition. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 16:29:56 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:59:19 2013. They went well beyond that.If you remember well, the case was heard TWICE. Finding in favor of Citizens United based on an exemption from campaign laws because the film aired on PPV is one thing. I would have agreed with that. But coming up with a purposely ridiculous Activist decision after a RE-HEARING and throwing out a century of precedent and two centuries of common sense is the kind of things that undermine people's faith in our institutions. I'm glad that my President, Barack Obama, publicly shamed and exposed them at the SOTU. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 16:32:35 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:25:48 2013. I agree. But a lot of people in the Republican Party (as well as the Democratic) don't agree with you.http://www.nytimes.com/2013/06/18/us/politics/undaunted-by-2012-elections-republicans-embrace-anti-abortion-agenda.html |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 16:38:00 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 15:59:19 2013. And the court COULD have ruled narrowly on that. They didn't. They opened up the sluices at both ends, ending in Romney's famous one-liner. :) Doesn't bother me, bingbong and I are corporation too. Means we get TWO votes. (grin) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 16:44:13 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:05:09 2013. Them's shootin' words, varmint! :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue Jun 18 16:45:49 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:24:44 2013. FIRE! :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 16:47:49 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:24:44 2013. I'M GONNA FUCKIN KILL YOU!!!! |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 16:52:00 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:09:56 2013. CU wanted to show the movie on a day they KNEW it would be illegal to do so. That is where the "behind the sign" analogy comes from. Others refrained from politicking on that day.Individuals have free speech rights. Even then, once "behind the sign", that right is surrendered for good reason. Now thanks to a bad decision by SCOTUS, that is lost. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 17:00:23 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SLRT on Tue Jun 18 16:11:22 2013. Betas the RW world where hate prevails. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jun 18 17:00:42 2013, in response to Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by daNd124 on Tue Jun 18 13:14:44 2013. I eagerly await the chance to vote for a government that would order you put to sleep. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 18 17:01:43 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jun 18 17:00:42 2013. If you go back in time to 1933, you'd get your chance. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 17:03:22 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:24:44 2013. There is unlawful politicking. Which is what Citizens is really about.And the two glaring examples above. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by bingbong on Tue Jun 18 17:04:32 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 16:19:16 2013. Gonna give them an unlimited budget too? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jun 18 17:04:47 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Spider-Pig on Tue Jun 18 17:01:43 2013. Do you really think America's a free country? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 17:15:06 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 16:47:49 2013. Not unlawful without some overt additional action on your part. :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 17:21:30 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 17:15:06 2013. If he didn't know that I was kidding, you don't think he'd have grounds to have the authorities look into it? |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 20:28:06 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by RockParkMan on Tue Jun 18 17:04:47 2013. Their are gradations of free.A German friend of my parents (born around 1914, died a natural death around 2000) had a mouth like yours. In 1935 while he was in college the Gestapo arrested him, put him in front of a firing squad, and then they all fired blanks. Then they told him to leave Germany right away. Compared to that, what goes on in the US, while reprehensible, is peanuts. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 20:36:01 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 20:28:06 2013. We shouldn't measure ourselves to such places and times.The whole concept of American Exceptionalism rests on the principle that we, the USA, can always do better and will. The "at least we're freer than North Korea" doesn't fly with me. That's the mentality of loser countries in inexorable decline. I refuse to believe that the United States is just another ordinary country like so many others, like a Spain or a Denmark or a Taiwan. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 20:48:54 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 20:36:01 2013. Hey, Denmark's done pretty well for itself. A pipsqueak country that's resisted being wiped off the map by much larger neighbors for over 1200 years. And unlike the frontier America could grow into, theirs went and turned to ice. :) |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by SMAZ on Tue Jun 18 23:22:40 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by AlM on Tue Jun 18 20:48:54 2013. Denmark is a great country but it's still an ordinary advanced country.Like New Zealand. Or the Czech Republic. The American Experiment was not designed to be ordinary. |
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Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Wed Jun 19 14:20:14 2013, in response to Re: Don't Want Corporations to Have Rights? Then the ACLU Suit Is Dead, posted by Chris R16/R2730 on Tue Jun 18 16:24:44 2013. Isn't that an oxymoron? |
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