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| Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment (1066928) | |
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Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue May 21 22:34:02 2013 at the House Oversight committee hearings into the IRS scandal, Wednesday. Of course she has the right not to incriminate herself but then again if telling the truth will incriminate her, seems that there's a few flames to go with all that smoke. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 21 22:40:30 2013, in response to Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 21 22:34:02 2013. Issa decided to go first before the investigation. Here's why she's doing it ...http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/05/irs-official-lois-lerner-to-plead-the-5th/ |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dave on Wed May 22 06:31:19 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by SelkirkTMO on Tue May 21 22:40:30 2013. Keep telling yourself she has nothing to hide. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 08:19:57 2013, in response to Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 21 22:34:02 2013. Many people are saying there might be criminal behavior here. She knew of everything as it was going on. So if there was criminal behavior, she is guilty of it.Given that, there is no possible reason she would want to testify. It can only hurt her and can't help her. The fact that her testimony might be good for the country isn't going to trump her personal risks. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 09:15:12 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 08:19:57 2013. Many people are saying there might be criminal behavior here. She knew of everything as it was going on. So if there was criminal behavior, she is guilty of it.Given that, there is no possible reason she would want to testify. It can only hurt her and can't help her. The fact that her testimony might be good for the country isn't going to trump her personal risks. It does start the ball rolling, though, for the ugly side of white collar criminal investigations: Find a name, any name, that can be charged with a crime. Charge them, and offer a deal to give up information on their boss or their bosses boss. Then charge that person and repeat the process. It keeps going until you either find out who authorized the whole mess or until someone decides they will take the fall for their boss. If there is enough evidence of criminal behavior, some relatively low-level people are going to have their lives trashed because she chooses not to talk now. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 09:34:25 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 09:15:12 2013. If there is enough evidence of criminal behavior, some relatively low-level people are going to have their lives trashed because she chooses not to talk now.??? Lerner is a career employee and so is everyone below her. This isn't like murder. It's probably a good enough defense for the lower level people that "I told my boss and division counsel what I was doing and they said it was OK." Also, she is refusing to talk to Congress. Any criminal investigation will be carried out by Justice and will totally ignore anything that Congress does. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 09:51:07 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 09:34:25 2013. I hope so. I hope that it doesn't take arresting or threatening the arrest of some low-level person in order to get somebody to say "My boss told me to do it".It is my understanding that this is how Spitzer got the job done when he was pursuing Marsh and Aon years ago -- that certainly wasn't murder either. His first arrest at Marsh was of a rather inexperienced employee. This is also how the recent insider trading investigations seem to have gone. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 09:57:53 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 09:51:07 2013. But in this case Lerner has already said she knew what was going on. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 10:33:44 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 09:57:53 2013. She may have already said it, but apparently she isn't going to say it again.The soap opera goes on. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 10:46:01 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Dave on Wed May 22 06:31:19 2013. No skin off my back if Issa wants to violate her fifth amendment rights so she can walk if she happens to be guilty of something. Sure ain't enough bread and circuses as it is ... why listen to the advice of attorneys when there's cameras? |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dave on Wed May 22 11:38:06 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 10:46:01 2013. ** why listen to the advice of attorneys when there's cameras? **Jodi Arias sure didn't listen! |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 11:47:07 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Dave on Wed May 22 11:38:06 2013. And now you know why Lerner's attorneys were adamant. :)BTW, she did the show earlier ... Issa fumed as usual. |
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Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:02:06 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Charles G on Wed May 22 10:33:44 2013. You can't issue denials of wrong doing on specific points and then assert your 5th amendment rights. Chances are, that self-serving bullshit soliloquy she gave may be enough to cause her to be compelled to testify - even against her own interests. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:07:11 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Dave on Wed May 22 06:31:19 2013. He'll do cartwheels trying to make excuses for her instead of wanting the truth from her. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by AlM on Wed May 22 22:11:07 2013, in response to Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:02:06 2013. The Committee could probably compel her to testify. But their concern would be that then if she is charged with a crime she might successfully claim immunity. That would look bad: "Lerner escapes prosecution because Congressional Committee compelled her testimony."So even though they probably can compel her testimony, they probably won't. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:20:38 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 22:11:07 2013. I don't know that to be true. It was never covered in my courses at the Dick WOlf Law School |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 22:21:02 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:07:11 2013. Yep ... because as we all know, Issa has Truth, Justice and the American way in his pants. :) |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 22:22:50 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Wed May 22 22:11:07 2013. Which is precisely the point I, and her attorney, were trying to tell these republican IDIOTS. But hey ... why not just let them be the morons they are, and let her walk? Sad that the adult republicans in congress are every bit as stupid as some of the ones right here. :( |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 22 22:40:43 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:20:38 2013. Don't believe what you see on TV, even if the show ran for 20 years. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:43:53 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 22 22:40:43 2013. Than you dan. I need to keep that in mind for the future.Don't believe what you see on TV, Don't believe what you see on TV, Don't believe what you see on TV, Don't believe what you see on TV, Don't believe what you see on TV, Don't believe what you see on TV, |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 22 22:51:45 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:43:53 2013. TV is for fun, not serious items. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 22:52:12 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Dan Lawrence on Wed May 22 22:51:45 2013. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SMAZ on Thu May 23 01:31:57 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Dave on Wed May 22 06:31:19 2013. It is un-American to presume someone's guilt based on one's assertions of his/her basic constitutional rights.What next? Jurors presuming guilt of someone who refuses to take the witness stand in their own trial? |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by AlM on Thu May 23 08:32:55 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Wed May 22 22:20:38 2013. I think I learned it in Earl Stanley Gardner Law School. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu May 23 09:55:54 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by SelkirkTMO on Wed May 22 22:52:12 2013. And I've NEVER watched Fox since they stopped showing Star Trek. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu May 23 09:59:33 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by AlM on Thu May 23 08:32:55 2013. And Raymond Burr spent his entire life playing Perry Mason who was created by Earl Stanley Gardner. I have several of his Perry Mason books. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 23 15:01:29 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Dan Lawrence on Thu May 23 09:55:54 2013. That doesn't surprise me. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 23 15:26:48 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 23 15:01:29 2013. Love how the kooks get Fox networks and Fox News mixed up still. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by Train Dude on Thu May 23 17:54:22 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Olog-hai on Thu May 23 15:26:48 2013. What do you expect. Even our very own Walter Cronkite of OTChat doesn't seem to know the difference. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment |
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Posted by SelkirkTMO on Thu May 23 17:57:02 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Screws The Pooch While Taking The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Thu May 23 17:54:22 2013. Heh. Yep ... Rupert only owns one of them, the other is owned by Bloomberg. :) |
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Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 23 20:31:25 2013, in response to Lois Lerner Will Take The 5th Amendment, posted by Train Dude on Tue May 21 22:34:02 2013. Washington Post
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Sep 24 09:31:38 2013, in response to Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Sep 23 20:31:25 2013. Resigns before she could be fired. Difference? A lot of pension money. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 10:01:36 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by SLRT on Tue Sep 24 09:31:38 2013. Resigns before she could be fired. Difference? A lot of pension money.What are you talking about? Your pension can't be revoked or reduced if you are fired. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Sep 24 12:22:10 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 10:01:36 2013. It depends on why you're fired. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 13:44:41 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by SLRT on Tue Sep 24 12:22:10 2013. No. Unless the firing was based on the worker having committed fraud it does not depend on why you were fired.And even fraud is iffy. It would have to be a kind of fraud that meant you were never doing your job in the first place and therefore didn't deserve a pension. If you did a job properly but also stole $1 million you would still get your pension. It might be attachable to pay your fines, but that's not the same thing as losing your pension. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by SLRT on Tue Sep 24 14:26:09 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 13:44:41 2013. I don't believe in taking people's earned pensions away without the most grievous evidence (such as showing that they were getting pensions for a no-show political job).If being a public disgrace was enough to lose your pensions, we could save a fortune on politicians' pensions. Still, I'm saying that maybe she didn't want to risk the direction that further hearings might have taken and what might have been found out. A bird in the hand, you know... |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 24 15:38:51 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 10:01:36 2013. It depends on the pension that you have and when you became vested. Not all pensions are the same. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 16:17:47 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by Train Dude on Tue Sep 24 15:38:51 2013. Not all pensions are the same. But no vested accrued pension benefit anywhere in the US can be revoked. |
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Re: Lois Lerner Resigns |
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Posted by SMAZ on Wed Sep 25 04:25:51 2013, in response to Re: Lois Lerner Resigns, posted by AlM on Tue Sep 24 16:17:47 2013. Even if Private Nidal Hasan had accrued more than 20 years of military service, the pension that he otherwise would have been entitled to would have been revoked. |
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