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renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Thu Aug 30 23:13:15 2007

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The NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's were renumbered from the 4000 series into the 7200's to make way for the 1985 GMC advanced design buses that would become the new 4000's.The first order of 1973 Flxibles were numbered from 7000-7204,and then there is the gap,7205-7299,before the 1973 Flxibles continue with #7300.Is there a roster or conversion chart on the internet with the 1969 Flxibles old,and new numbers ? Many thanks in advance !!

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(67912)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Aug 31 02:42:06 2007, in response to renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Thu Aug 30 23:13:15 2007.

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IIRC, most of them were gone by the time renumbering happened. And those that did get renumbered only were around for a matter of weeks. That's because those 1985's replaced the few remaining '69's because they were 16 years old. I have never seen a renumbering list.

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(67917)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Sid from NJ on Fri Aug 31 07:17:54 2007, in response to renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Thu Aug 30 23:13:15 2007.

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[there is the gap,7205-7299,before the 1973 Flxibles continue with #7300]

The gap existed because, back then, NYCT buses were separated number-wise from MABSTOA buses. 7000-7204 were NYCT, while the 7300's were MABSTOA. This separation continued until the 9000's were delivered, but was resumed again for the first two orders of RTS's.

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(67938)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by B53RICH on Fri Aug 31 12:11:04 2007, in response to renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Thu Aug 30 23:13:15 2007.

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I have asked this question some time ago also. I didn't get much answers as well. I don't know how much info is out there on this. As mentioned by RIPTA42 on BusTalk III, the UTC website has been announcing the renumbering list and the Blitz renumbering list for quite some years now. I E-mailed RIPTA one time for a list because he had some cross reference to a few bus photos he had posted. That was from builders plates he had personally seen from scrap buses.
The 1969 Flx's were renumbered to something like this:
The TA 4000-4200 series were renumbered to the 7200/7300 series and the OA 4600/4700 series were renumbered to the 7400 series.
Many of the GM fishbowls in the 4000 series were renumbered as well, into the upper 6300's thru the 6500's.

I don't recall the source, but I have 6409 as ex 4414.
The following Blitz renumbering list I have was from as follows:
From J.L. Gutierrez posted on Dave Pirmann's site 2002:
5000 ex 8585
5001 ex 8304
5002 ex 8323
5003 ex 8426
5004 ex 8143
5005 ex 8526
5006 ex 8545
5007 ex 8430
5008 ex 8542
5009 ex 8610
5010 ex 8438
5011 ex 8050
5012 ex 8591
5013 ex 8619
5014 ex 8367
5015 ex 8568
5016 ex 8192
5017 ex 8624
5018 ex 8109
5019 ex 8131
5020 ex 8546
5021 ex 8613
5022 ex 8757

The following is from RIPTA:
5122/8801
5205/4386
5227/4401
5244/4469
5324/6120
5328/6126
5375/6024
5382/6040
5397/6030
5401/6093
5402/6094
5403/6096
5507/6276
5508/6216
5516/6286
5521/6322
5525/6341
5549/6931

And finally the rest I don't recall the sources:
5200/4487
5130/8849
5341/6164
5500/6324
5511/4800
5527/6349
5575/4503
5576/4504

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(68447)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Sep 4 09:12:32 2007, in response to renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Thu Aug 30 23:13:15 2007.

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I have the list of the renumbered 4000`s.If I get a chance I will post it,If Not, go to the next UTC meeting I will see that it is there.

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(68450)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Sep 4 10:38:02 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by B53RICH on Fri Aug 31 12:11:04 2007.

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Excellent! I used this information to update this 2/10/02 post by Bill from Maspeth, 4504 was not rebuilt and was renumbered 6957.

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(68451)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Sep 4 10:38:40 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by B53RICH on Fri Aug 31 12:11:04 2007.

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Disregard the last post. Bad html.

Excellent! I used this information to update my list on BusTalk III. One item in question is 5575/4504; according to this 2/10/02 post by Bill from Maspeth, 4504 was not rebuilt and was renumbered 6957.

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(68512)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by B53RICH on Tue Sep 4 19:22:55 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Sep 4 10:38:40 2007.

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Wait, you are right, 4504 became 6957. Though I wonder if 6957 then later was Blitzed and renumbered to 5575?

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(68607)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Sep 4 23:59:37 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by B53RICH on Tue Sep 4 19:22:55 2007.

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Though I wonder if 6957 then later was Blitzed and renumbered to 5575?

No, Bill says 5572-5576 were 4500-4505, sans 4504. That's five coaches.

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(68643)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 08:44:29 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Tue Sep 4 09:12:32 2007.

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Here they are:
7205 = 4001 7241 - 7243 = 4055 - 4057
7206 = 4002 7244 - 7248 = 4060 - 4064
7207 = 4006 7249 - 7252 = 4068 - 4071
7208 = 4007 7253 - 7254 = 4074 - 4075
7209 = 4008 7255 - 7257 = 4077 - 4079
7210 - 7215 = 4009 - 4014 7258 = 4084
7216 - 7220 = 4018 - 4022 7259 - 7261 = 4088 - 4090
7221 - 7227 = 4024 - 4030 7262 = 4092
7228 - 7229 = 4033 - 4034 7263 - 7265 = 4094 - 4096
7230 - 7233 = 4038 - 4041 7266 - 7267 = 4100 - 4101
7234 - 7236 = 4043 - 4045 7268 = 4106
7237 = 4048 7269 - 7277 = 4108 - 4116
7238 - 7239 = 4050 - 4051 7278 - 7286 = 4118 - 4126
7240 = 4053 7287 - 7292 = 4130 - 4135
MORE LATER

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by 1C/Ballston on Wed Sep 5 09:21:29 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 08:44:29 2007.

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4001 ended up in DC as a replacement bus to a similar Flxible that was destroyed when they were up to assist with the shortage of buses due to the Grumman recalls.

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Flxible Bus Authority on Wed Sep 5 13:11:40 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 08:44:29 2007.

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Thank you very much for that !! I saw a photo of 4057 in the blue paint,and the right side emergency light was off-center,and when it became 7243,that light was still in the same position !! I should have been able to figure out that 4057 became 7243 due to that one small detail.Also,when that bus was blue in the '70's,it was badly beaten-up,but when it became white,it looked like a brand new bus.I also noticed that 4055/7241 made it to the list.I watched 4055 when its engine caught on fire,but it was placed back in service in no time at all.The bus was white when that happened.I took photos of 4050,and 4103 when they were blue,but I noticed 4103 did not make your list,so I'm assuming it was scrapped.The 4100's came to 5th Avenue Depot from somewhere else,along with the 6200 GMC's and both these buses did not have the roll signs,instead cardboard was placed in the windsheild.Go to hopetunnel.com and you can see them there.

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(68682)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 13:42:41 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by 1C/Ballston on Wed Sep 5 09:21:29 2007.

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There were 2 of them that went down to DC as replacements for 2 of theres that fell into the water @ old Edgewater depot.
The Flex was 4000 & it lasted quite a long time down there in addition there was a GM also whose number I think was 4300 but I am not postive on that one.

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(68690)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by 1C/Ballston on Wed Sep 5 15:01:28 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 13:42:41 2007.

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Thanks for the info. I think the GM was 88xx. I only saw 4000 once and I thought I was seeing things as it looked a bit different than what I was used to seeing. The 8800 GM I would see on occasion but never had the chance to ride it.



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(68701)

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 16:16:03 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by 1C/Ballston on Wed Sep 5 15:01:28 2007.

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Yes, The GM was 8800 - checked my notes.

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 16:38:29 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 08:44:29 2007.

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Continued:
7293 = 4138, 7294 - 7297 = 4140 - 4143, 7298 - 7299 = 4145 - 4146
7362 = 4147, 7363 = 4150, 7364 - 7365 = 4152 - 4153.
7366 - 7367 = 4155 - 4156, 7368 = 4158, 7369 = 4160,
7370 - 7375 = 4166 - 4171, 7376 - 7378 = 4173 - 4175, 7379 = 4177,
7380 - 7382 = 4180 - 4182, 7383 = 4184, 7384 = 4189, 7385 = 4191
7386 - 7390 = 4194 - 4198, 7391 = 4202. 7392 - 7393 = 4601 - 4602,
7394 - 7395 = 4604 - 4605, 7396 = 4608, 7397 = 4610,
7398 - 7403 = 4613 - 4618, 7404 - 7407 = 4623 - 4626,
7408 - 7411 = 4628 - 4631, 7412 - 7415 = 4636 - 4639, 7416 = 4642
7417 = 4644, 7418 = 4648, 7419 - 7421 = 4650 - 4652, 7422 = 4654,
7423 = 4657, 7424 = 4660, 7425 = 4662, 7426 - 7433 = 4664 - 4671,
7434 = 4673, 7435 - 7437 = 4674 - 4676, 7438 - 7440 = 4678 - 4680,
7441 = 4685, 7442 - 7444 = 4687 - 4689, 7445 - 7448 = 4691 - 4694
7449 - 7454 = 4696 - 4701, 7455 - 7458 = 4704 - 4707, 7459 = 4709.


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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 16:40:50 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 16:38:29 2007.

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Last of it:
7460 - 7461 = 4711 - 4712, 7462 - 7463 = 4714 - 4715,
7463 - 7464 = 4717 - 4718, 7466 = 4722, 7467 - 7468 = 4725 - 4725,
7469 = 4727.

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by B53RICH on Wed Sep 5 20:03:55 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by RIPTA42HopeTunnel on Tue Sep 4 23:59:37 2007.

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Right, thanks! Looking back at my list, I see 5575 was 4503. I don't know if they were renumbered in sequential order, but if so then 5576 would previously may have been 4505.

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Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's

Posted by B53RICH on Wed Sep 5 21:47:38 2007, in response to Re: renumbered NYCTA/MaBSTOA 1969 Flxible 111CC-D51's, posted by Mr. D - Type on Wed Sep 5 16:40:50 2007.

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Again, many thanks! Been looking for this since the renumbering in 1986. Gee, has it been 21 years already?
Of these, I observed the following back then on the B53, now Q54:
7365,7205,7278,7212,7467,7258,7381.
4001(7205) and 4181(7381) make sense, these original numbers were in service at that time which I have on another list of what I had guessed of how they were renumbered, obviously 4001 being correct. 4039 and 4056 were also in service but I guess these never made it back onto the B53 afterwards. 7467....somehow OA 4723 made it to FP.

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