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| My idea for the BxM4 (37686) | |
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Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by South Brooklyn Railway on Sat Oct 21 13:51:21 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. not sure.... |
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| (37689) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Oct 21 14:14:01 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. A loop or combo for the two branches may work. It is just important that the two terminals are close enough. If it is anything like the QM1A's Fresh Meadows-Glen Oaks combo during off-hours it can work I guess. Is that QM1A situation a fair comparison or is this a different picture entirely? I'm not that familar with the branches of the BxM4. |
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| (37690) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat Oct 21 14:18:27 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. I think it fine during off-peak or even weekends, as it wouldn't add much running time. Sounds like it would be a win-win for both Katonah Ave folk and those on the 4A. |
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| (37706) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by thedarkliberator on Sat Oct 21 16:36:08 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by WayneJay on Sat Oct 21 14:18:27 2006. Agreed, the service is good enough during peak periods that everyone can get a shorter ride, but outside of rush hours the headways are killer, especially on the weekend. There were times that the first bus on a saturday was going to the wrong branch for me, I would've gadly taken the bus but it did not go down my route. I ended up having to drag my dads hungover ass to drive me to the gaelic football game.I think that drivers should be encouraged to ask people where they are getting off especially on weekends, allowing running time to be cut down on and maybe skipping some parts of the concourse, or heading straight to the top after fordham perhaps. |
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| (37716) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sat Oct 21 19:21:38 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by thedarkliberator on Sat Oct 21 16:36:08 2006. I did once spot a N/B BxM4B exiting the Deegan at 233rd on a Saturday morning. I guess it either made the trip empty or it had no passengers the Concourse and Bainbridge stops. |
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| (37717) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by QM18Express on Sat Oct 21 19:24:47 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by thedarkliberator on Sat Oct 21 16:36:08 2006. Where you go to that you need the BXM4A/B? Because you can just switch for a local bus at some point along the way. |
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| (37720) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 19:44:35 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by WayneJay on Sat Oct 21 19:21:38 2006. That's what it did when I first rode the BxM4B end-to-end on a Saturday afternoon, it was when MTA Bus first took over and I guess the route still got bad ridership, it took the Deegan to 233rd Street, then Van Cortlandt to 242nd Street. |
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| (37722) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 19:47:05 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Oct 21 14:14:01 2006. The Fresh Meadows branch is onyl like 5 blocks though so it wouldn't be as major as a combonation on the BxM4. Most riders the BxM4A get off on the Concourse, with those going past the Concourse going to Lehman or Bronx Science. Most of the rides on the BxM4B are going the length of the route to Woodlawn. |
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| (37723) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 19:49:01 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by thedarkliberator on Sat Oct 21 16:36:08 2006. Most drivers ask on routes that don't get that much ridership on the Weekends, however, the last time I rode the BxM4B, the driver didn't ask even though no one got off before Katonah and 242nd. |
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| (37802) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by B49 Limited on Sun Oct 22 16:04:16 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. Just out of curiousity where does BxM4C goes and why MTA bus does not own that route since it is a branch of the BxM4? Would it make sense since it is under Bee - Line to rename it WM4 or something? |
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| (37807) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 17:29:27 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by B49 Limited on Sun Oct 22 16:04:16 2006. where does BxM4C goesIt go to White Plains. why MTA bus does not own that route since it is a branch of the BxM4? Maybe Liberty Lines no sell that route number to MTA? Beside, it go to Westchester, and MTA Bus no go to Westchester. All BxM4 and alpha suffix branches use to be Liberty Lines; they only sell in part to MTA but they keep this one because it go to Westchester. Would it make sense since it is under Bee - Line to rename it WM4 or something? You make new route number, that cost money. It also confuse passengers who know BxM4C already. |
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| (37811) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 17:50:34 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. Wow, that's as brilliant a plan as reabsorbing the Bx20 into the M100. What's confusing about having a BxM4A and BxM4B? Perhaps this arrangement is the most efficient? Perhaps people from Woodlawn Heights want a straight run down Bainbridge to Grand Concourse instead of having to take the scenic route via Bedford Park . . . ?Cure for the "my idea" thread type is the adage "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" . . . |
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| (37814) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by thedarkliberator on Sun Oct 22 18:46:42 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by QM18Express on Sat Oct 21 19:24:47 2006. The top of the line... no local bus gets up there in combination with the four train as quickly as the BxM 4. |
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| (37818) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun Oct 22 18:58:30 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by B49 Limited on Sun Oct 22 16:04:16 2006. Just out of curiousity where does BxM4C goes and why MTA bus does not own that route since it is a branch of the BxM4? Would it make sense since it is under Bee - Line to rename it WM4 or something?I always thought this was not a good idea. To see BxM4C, one could logically conclude that it's a Concourse line or in some way related, but it merely passes through the Bronx on the Major Deegan Expressway to/from Yonkers. Yes, this line should've been designated something like WM4 since it's a Westchester to Manhattan (and vice versa) service. |
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| (37823) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 20:04:26 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 17:29:27 2006. "MTA Bus no go to Westchester"False, the bus depot that provides service on the BxM4A/B is in Westchester, and the BxM3 also ends in Yonkers. |
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| (37824) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 20:05:06 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by WayneJay on Sun Oct 22 18:58:30 2006. Why not the WM1? WM4 would still be quite confusing. |
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| (37825) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 20:24:25 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 20:05:06 2006. Why change the number at all? Familiarity sells as much as reliability, speed and frequency. |
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| (37827) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 20:35:51 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 20:04:26 2006. False, the bus depot that provides service on the BxM4A/B is in Westchester, and the BxM3 also ends in YonkersSo, they gotta use the facilities that Liberty Lines used anyhow. The BxM3 really terminates in the Bronx—anything within two miles of Van Cortland Park is really the Bronx . . . |
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| (37828) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by 9 local on Sun Oct 22 20:37:56 2006, in response to My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sat Oct 21 13:50:25 2006. Here's my idea for the BxM4: get rid of it. |
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| (37829) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Gotham Bus Co. on Sun Oct 22 20:47:21 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by B49 Limited on Sun Oct 22 16:04:16 2006. Just out of curiousity where does BxM4C goes and why MTA bus does not own that route since it is a branch of the BxM4?The short answer is that Westchester County DOT wanted to run an express route into Manhattan but couldn't get approval from NYCDOT. So the County had its contractor, Liberty Lines Transit, piggyback on Liberty Lines Express's existing franchise for the BxM4A/B by creating two new branches (BxM4C/D). The now-dead BxM4D followed the 4C as far as Tuckahoe Road, then turned west and ended up in Tarrytown. |
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| (37830) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R4 Bryn Mawr LCL/R5 Paoli EXP on Sun Oct 22 20:52:15 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by 9 local on Sun Oct 22 20:37:56 2006. I like that idea. |
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| (37834) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 21:07:40 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by 9 local on Sun Oct 22 20:37:56 2006. Here's my idea for the BxM4: get rid of itBrilliant idea, Mr. Robert Moses. |
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| (37836) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:21:42 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 20:35:51 2006. And why is that? Also, to me, any place that is located in the county of Westchester, is considered Westchester. |
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| (37838) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:23:39 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by 9 local on Sun Oct 22 20:37:56 2006. I would only get rid of the BxM4A/B if all the other useless express bus routes are a ridded of. |
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| (37840) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:25:08 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 20:24:25 2006. 1. Because it doesn't serve passengers in the Bronx, but it does serve passengers in Westchester2. It's confusing |
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| (37841) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R30A on Sun Oct 22 21:25:54 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 20:24:25 2006. because the busses dont even say BXM4C?Though, the most sensible thing to do would be... just get rid of the route all together... along with the rest of the express busses. |
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| (37842) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:28:01 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:23:39 2006. Oh yeah, and by "uesless", I mean all. |
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| (37849) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Oct 22 23:08:54 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Sun Oct 22 21:07:40 2006. Why? The BxM4A and B duplicate the Jerome and Concourse lines. Let people take those instead. |
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| (37853) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by QM18Express on Sun Oct 22 23:41:51 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by thedarkliberator on Sun Oct 22 18:46:42 2006. Do you take the 4A or the 4B? If you normally take the 4A and end up on the 4B, you can take it to Bedford Park Blvd for the BX26 to 205/Paul, BX1 and BX2 to that stop on Sedgwick, or for the Jerome/Gun Hill stop, get off by Montefiore hospital and walk a few blocks(Or the BX10 if it comes right away).IF you normally take the 4B and end up on the 4A, take the 4A to the stop by Montefiore hospital and transfer to the BX16 or BX34 depending on how far up you going. |
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| (37854) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by QM18Express on Sun Oct 22 23:43:08 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by R30A on Sun Oct 22 21:25:54 2006. There we go again |
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| (37857) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:00:33 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by R30A on Sun Oct 22 21:25:54 2006. because the busses (sic) dont (sic) even say BXM4C?The timetable says it. Why do the buses not say it? Though, the most sensible thing to do would be... just get rid of the route all together... along with the rest of the express busses And replace them with what? How nice; a solution without a problem. One thing that does not happen is "getting rid" of frequent buses that people use. Please start making sense . . . |
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| (37858) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:02:19 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:25:08 2006. Because it doesn't serve passengers in the Bronx, but it does serve passengers in WestchesterYes, and . . . ? The route number was established in that format notwithstanding. It's confusing To whom? The people who have used it for its existence? I would postulate that this would not even be confusing to new passengers. |
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| (37859) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:03:46 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:21:42 2006. Don't worry . . . another round of consolidations, and you'll see the BxM3 terminating at the Yonkers border and no MTA Bus garage in Westchester. |
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| (37860) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:07:23 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by The Port of Authority on Sun Oct 22 23:08:54 2006. "Let" people take the subway? Let them eat cake? I would say that the route planners knew what they were doing. Duplication of subway lines is what you worry about? Guess what: those buses are there to relieve those lines. Ever heard of intermodality? Everything works together.Oh BTW: The 4 train does not operate to Katonah Avenue. That subway train is useless to people who use the BxM4B. Is your attitude, therefore, to "let them" ride Metro-North? |
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| (37861) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:08:44 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Sun Oct 22 21:28:01 2006. How are they useless? The MTA would not have taken them over if they were "useless", nor would they have kept a frequent schedule. |
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| (37866) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Oct 23 07:47:45 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:08:44 2006. Express buses are a luxury, and most of them are redundant to other forms of transportation (including most of the SI expresses), the reason why they have a frequent schedule is because of passenger demand (well, that's obvious) and they don't want to unattract more riders especially since a lot of express bus routes currently have a low amount of passengers per mile traveled (it's not actually called that, but I just find that term less confusing for me). |
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| (37867) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 23 08:06:04 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:07:23 2006. Stick to trains, Olog. You have no clue about buses. |
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| (37868) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 08:09:32 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:00:33 2006. How about get rid of busses which are economically infeasable due to extremely low rates of turnover? That make sense to you? many of these lines run with roughly 1 passenger per mile not counting deadheads. they need to be put out of their misery. |
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| (37869) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 08:11:09 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:02:19 2006. Why wouldnt it be?The busses and most of the signs say 4C, not BXM4C. Just finish calling it what the rest of places call it. It is the 4C. |
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| (37872) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Andrew Kirschner on Mon Oct 23 08:30:15 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by WayneJay on Sun Oct 22 18:58:30 2006. My idea for the new number was X100. Then if there's a Nassau-Manhattan express that could be the X105, a Suffolk-Manhattan express could be the X110, and so on.:-) Andrew |
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| (37887) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 14:54:16 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 23 08:06:04 2006. You make it seem like he has an idea about trains... |
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| (37888) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by 9 local on Mon Oct 23 14:58:34 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 01:07:23 2006. Gold Metrocard came out many years ago enabling transfer from the subway to the bus. You can get off the 4 or D train and use your Gold Metrocard to transfer to a bus going up Katonah Avenue FOR FREE. It's a brilliant idea, but you seem to have forgotten about it. In fact, Blue Metrocard and tokens don't even EXIST anymore! The BxM4 is basically a combination of the 5th/Madison Limited bus, and the Bx1/2 Limited. Those two routes do not need to be combined. Oh, and buses do not relieve subway lines. As has been said many times, the capacity of one subway CAR greatly exceeds that of an MCI D4500CT or an MCI Classic. The capacity of one subway train is the same as the capacity of 80 express buses, and since the subway runs MUCH more frequently than the express bus, and is 3 bucks cheaper, there is no point in having any express run that duplicates a subway, even if there is a branch that goes away from the subway line: as I said before, you can always make a transfer from the subway to a local bus. |
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| (37905) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:18:58 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by The Port of Authority on Mon Oct 23 08:06:04 2006. Stick to trains, Olog. You have no clue about busesAh, so you don't have an answer. You do know what a question mark is, don't you? My previous reply to you had a few of them. Now you've convinced me that I know more about buses than you do. Come on and dazzle me . . . |
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| (37906) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:19:23 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 14:54:16 2006. Like you do?? |
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| (37907) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:32:14 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Osmosis Jones on Mon Oct 23 07:47:45 2006. Express buses are a luxury, and most of them are redundant to other forms of transportation (including most of the SI expresses)Someone's willing to pay for the luxury. If the buses were running empty, then there would be a huge superfluity thereupon, and such things don't go unnoticed by bus company bean-counters. the reason why they have a frequent schedule is because of passenger demand (well, that's obvious) And it's a hefty argument against their removal. It's a huge political boo-boo to remove a service that has high passenger demand. they don't want to unattract more riders especially since a lot of express bus routes currently have a low amount of passengers per mile traveled (it's not actually called that, but I just find that term less confusing for me) Revenue passenger miles? That might be the term. So their subsidy is high? The BxM-series, as noted, have quite a few trips assigned to them; and they seem to attract passengers at all times of day on the principle of frequency selling. The MTA certainly is the type of agency that would cut service to the bone if you had a dearth of passengers on the express routes. |
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| (37908) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:34:33 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 08:09:32 2006. How about get rid of busses which are economically infeasable due to extremely low rates of turnover?If that were actually true, then the MTA would have never bought the routes and canceled them, or bought them and cut service to peak hours only. many of these lines run with roughly 1 passenger per mile not counting deadheads Per whose figures? |
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| (37909) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:35:40 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by R30A on Mon Oct 23 08:11:09 2006. That's up to the Chestwester County Bureaucracy. Perhaps it will indeed happen. |
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| (37911) | |
Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by R30A on Tue Oct 24 00:32:07 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by Olog-hai on Mon Oct 23 23:34:33 2006. NYCDOT.They published the figures for all bronx and queens MTAB express routes. The best of the routes, the QM23 and QM24 carried 2.73-74 passengers per mile, which was worse then the worst local, the Q9A which carried slightly over 3. |
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Re: My idea for the BxM4 |
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Posted by thedarkliberator on Tue Oct 24 01:44:17 2006, in response to Re: My idea for the BxM4, posted by QM18Express on Sun Oct 22 23:41:51 2006. Local buses suck around there, if I ever go up there again I'll take the 4 and ride my bike the rest of the way or drive up. Headways and denpendability are both killers and the clinentele is a pain in the ass. |
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