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| Thoughts on the Fishbowl. (348695) | |
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| (348695) | |
Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Mon Dec 4 15:13:50 2023 https://www.theautopian.com/this-is-one-of-the-greatest-transit-buses-ever-made-and-its-already-been-converted-into-a-sweet-motorhome/ |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Dec 4 22:22:39 2023, in response to Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by r17-6599 on Mon Dec 4 15:13:50 2023. I preferred the fishbowl look a little better than Flxibles |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 4 23:06:38 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Dec 4 22:22:39 2023. I could never make up my mind because I like them both. I have a feeling Flxible made a slightly more robust bus body wide and final fit and finish wise. But they relied on GM engines and drivetrain by court order. Someone can chime in and correct me |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Tue Dec 5 09:07:44 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 4 23:06:38 2023. But they relied on GM engines and drivetrain by court order. Someone can chime in and correct meNot so much that Flxible relied on them. The court order was against GM, requiring them to sell Detroit Diesel engines and Allison transmissions to any manufacturer that wanted them. It actually benefited Flxible in that they could offer powertrains GMC declined to do... in particular, one customer wanted the 8V71 in a 35 foot bus. GMC said absolutely not, fearing the bus would be overpowered, rear-heavy, and dangerous... Flxible said no problem, and got the order. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 10:25:07 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by kcram3500 on Tue Dec 5 09:07:44 2023. n particular, one customer wanted the 8V71 in a 35 foot bus. GMC said absolutely not, fearing the bus would be overpowered, rear-heavy, and dangerous... Flxible said no problem, and got the order.I wonder if those were the SCRTD 7300s which went into service in 1973. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 10:46:32 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by BILLBKLYN on Mon Dec 4 22:22:39 2023. I definitely preferred the Fishbowl over the early (60s) Flxibles. My first experience with a Flxible was in early 1964. At that time, my parents and I were living with my grandparents in East New York in the house just north of the Newlots Av IRT station. The TA ran a special bus from the Newlots station directly to the World's Fair, so my mother and I took it. This bus type that I had never seen before pulled up, at that time I was used to seeing the two-tone green Old Looks and the Fishbowls (mostly TDH-5301s). I thought it was strange looking. Later that year, when we moved to Crown Heights, I would see these buses on the B44. Years later, I found out that they were Flxibles (since there was always an ad at the front of the bus, it covered up the Flxible nameplate) The only Flxible I'd liked better than GM was the Grumman 870. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Tue Dec 5 14:08:34 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 10:46:32 2023. We in the Bronx never saw Flx's. The powers that be always got us GM's. I was in high school and in 1964 I went to the TA building at 370 Jay. There I saw my first Flx's. I was shocked and thought GM cheapened their buses.While visiting public relations, I asked what those new buses were. I was told they were "Flxibles, spelled F_L_X". I was given an nice 8X10 glossy of one. In pays to inquire. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 5 17:28:41 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by kcram3500 on Tue Dec 5 09:07:44 2023. I recall reading about that exact thing. I know Flxible also used Cummings engines but I’m not sure who got those buses. |
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[PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 5 18:45:07 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 10:46:32 2023. 
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 03:32:43 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by r17-6599 on Tue Dec 5 14:08:34 2023. The Bronx didn't get Flxies until 1969-70 when MaBSTOA ordered 4601-4727. I also noticed, of the 1964 and 1965 sets of Flxies, neither had even the smallest fraction assigned to the 126th Street depot in Manhattan for service on the M-1 Madison/Chambers; M-3 49th-50th Street Crosstown; M-7 65th Street; M-11 York Avenue; M-13 Journal Building shuttle; and M-15 First and Second Avenues routes. On another forum, one person refers to the Flx's as "Dangerfields" because, like Rodney Dangerfield, that they never even served so much as one second on a Manhattan route indicated a lack of respect.Flxible or GM, I much preferred those with the rear windows as 4-piece rather than 3-piece. So, apparently, did maintenance and repair shop personnel at TA and OA depots - easier to maintain, cheaper to replace individual windows. It is significant that with the late 1965 orders - Flx 5601-5790 for TA, GM 6401-6900 for OA - 4-piece rear windows were actually built into the buses from the start, instead of retro-converted as several older examples of each maker were. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 03:33:57 2023, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 5 18:45:07 2023. That'd also served on the M-3 49th-50th Street Crosstown. That made it all the more ironic that none of the 1964-66 Flx orders for TA saw any part of the respective orders assigned to their Manhattan Bus Division. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Dec 6 05:07:32 2023, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Bill Newkirk on Tue Dec 5 18:45:07 2023. One afternoon on the way home from Queens College that year I caught it on the Q44 towards Flushing. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 6 10:14:33 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 5 10:25:07 2023. Oops, that was the 4300s. 7300s were 1975 40-footers, |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 6 10:21:37 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 5 17:28:41 2023. SCRTD had several Cummins-powered models:The 4000s which were 30-foot buses (1965) The 6000s which were 40-foot buses (1966) The 7100s which were 40-foot buses w/ A/C (1971) And years later 2500-2649, 1988 Metros with Cummins L-10/Voith. There was an option order for 2700-2764, 1989 Metros with the same setup. My first experience with Cummins-powered Flxibles was in 1975, with PenTran (serving Hampton and Newport News, CA). Their 200 series had Cummins (don't know what year they were, probably the same vintage as SCRTD's 6000s (see above). They also had some Old Looks in the 100 series. I was in college down there, literally days before I left to return to Brooklyn, the 600 series appeared, 40-foot Flxibles with (I guess) DD 6V92. I transferred to USC in L. A. the following school year, so didn't get to see them any further. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Wed Dec 6 10:29:47 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 03:32:43 2023. I was incorrect about not having Flxs in the Bx. I meant to indicate until the 1969 order, as you did.Flx's were foreign to me during my high school days. After my experience in Bklyn in 1964, I fire was lit. I went on one of my writing campaigns. After having done so with GM, and getting a ton of literature from them, Flx was next. They did not disappoint. Seeing my very first TDH5301 (Surface Trans.) in the Bx, and my first TDH5303 (6400 series) are other stories. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Wed Dec 6 12:41:34 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Wed Dec 6 10:21:37 2023. Cool |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 15:04:28 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by r17-6599 on Wed Dec 6 10:29:47 2023. Would you know why, in 1964-65, MaBSTOA kept on ordering from GM (5200 and 6400 series) while the TA went with Flxible (5000 and 5600 series)? I've long called that era the "split" period. And why wouldn't any of the TA Flxies have had at least a small portion of their fleet assigned to Manhattan? |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Wed Dec 6 15:21:07 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 15:04:28 2023. While I don't know the official answer to that, it may very well be due to production availability. GMC may have been booked to the point they couldn't deliver the TA order in reasonable time. Same happens now with so few manufacturers available - New Flyer, Nova, and Gillig if you're a small transit operator. Even with bidding as the usual practice, a manufacturer may decline to bid because they can't meet the delivery schedule due to backlog. That's how NJT got their first RTSes - Flxible declined to bid on the 1995 RFP, claiming they were too busy. NJT went with the Nova RTS. Later that year, Flx went under for good. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 7 19:18:06 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 6 03:32:43 2023. I Really had a thing for those buses.. especially the coach versions.I often wondered if any company was pick up the model, and do more to them, going further than the CLASSIC did, to update them for future reference. The closest thing we have to that would be the two models most popular to the MTA bus system (Nova bus LFS, and NF XD everything). LFS come closer to RTS, with low floors. XDs remind me of Flxible models..not the 870,or MetroDs. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 7 19:21:17 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by kcram3500 on Wed Dec 6 15:21:07 2023. That's crazy.I actually liked the Improved Metro E version, and would have liked to see more of them. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Dec 8 13:09:12 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 7 19:21:17 2023. MTA had an order for 50 of them when Flx went under. After seeing the success in New Jersey, MTA decided to give Flx another chance... but it never happened. |
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| (348725) | |
Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 9 23:10:50 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by kcram3500 on Fri Dec 8 13:09:12 2023. I remember riding Flxibles out of the Port Authority in the 2000's. I was shocked that the buses were still in service. |
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| (348726) | |
Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 9 23:14:01 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 4 23:06:38 2023. I always thought that the Flxibles on the E Bway and Ave B sounded different from GM buses though. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Sun Dec 10 08:38:12 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 9 23:14:01 2023. They also looked different from other Flxibles, especially the headlights. That's because they were made in Evergreen, AL, as opposed to Loudonville, OH. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 09:39:25 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by 3-9 on Sat Dec 9 23:14:01 2023. Is that right? I’m not familiar with them. Come to think of it the 1977 Flxibles in NYC sounded a bit different from the GMs. I am under the impression they had a different transmission than the direct drive / torque converter on the older buses. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun Dec 10 12:27:13 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 09:39:25 2023. They did. NYCTA's fishbowls all had the Allison VH9, and the '77 Flxibles had the 3-speed Allison V730/1 series tranny. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Sun Dec 10 12:36:53 2023, in response to Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by r17-6599 on Mon Dec 4 15:13:50 2023. I got hooked on the fishbowl at an early age. I grew up near West Farms Sq (until age 9) and I could see Bx20 and Bx36 buses from our apartment. This was the early 70s and KB was loaded with GMCs and no Flxibles. WF and COL had recently delivered 4600-4700 Flxibles, and I was never a fan of them. KB had lots of 8300 5303 GMCs and 4800-4900 5309A GMCs, and these quickly became my favorite.I did like the '77 Flxibles, but woud have rather those had been GMC orders. Starting in the ADB era my opinion revered as I loved the Grumman 870/Flxible Metro and never cared much for the RTS. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:17:19 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by WayneJay on Sun Dec 10 12:27:13 2023. Thank you. Do you recall them sounding different as well? |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:31:58 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by WayneJay on Sun Dec 10 12:36:53 2023. I like them the older the better. But by the time I was riding by myself going into Brooklyn in 9/90 the main buses left were Blitzes, ‘77 Flxibles and some 1972-73 5309s. There was at least 1 1971 5305 unrebuilt that I liked the most which was 6400, originally 4400. I did come to figure out there were some 1966 or 67 5303 Blitzes in Manhattan which eventually came to Brooklyn. They were 50xx and the 51xx were 1968 5305s.When I figured how to get home from Bay Ridge on the B1 I would take the Flxibles. And I liked them as much as the GMs. I think the Flxibles had little touches that I found appealing like the cursive Flxible imprinted on the window latches. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 16:35:00 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 09:39:25 2023. I don't remember the '77 Flxibles owned by the MTA sounding that much different from the GM's, but I didn't interact with them nearly as much. The E Bway Flxibles, as per photos, were much shorter, and had a large, flat, oval window in the back instead of the rectangular window, ventilation thing, and exhaust pipe that the '77 Flxibles had, but you could still see what the shape of the old window was like. You really heard the difference with the E Bway buses when they were accelerating. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 17:02:04 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:31:58 2023. I was never a fan of buses until the Flxible 870 came around. I thought they stunk of diesel and they rattled way too much (though ironically the rattling and the way those buses rode became somewhat fond childhood memories). I could never move those freaking windows! However, they were an integral part of the environment, from the buses at Chatham Square to the GM's with the big advertising attachments in midtown. That all changed with the Flxible 870, which looked much more modern, with bigger tinted windows, even on the rear exit doors, and was a much more pleasant ride. I liked the RTS IIs for pretty much the same reasons, though they were less modern and more functional. In the end, the RTS II became my favorite bus simply because they were such a big part of my adult life, but I always have a soft spot for the 870s. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Sun Dec 10 19:45:28 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 16:35:00 2023. Were Avenue B's Flx' rear windows 3-piece? I thought they might . . . I preferred the 4-piece arrangement on both their buses and GM's Fishbowls. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Sun Dec 10 19:45:28 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 16:35:00 2023. Were Avenue B's Flx' rear windows 3-piece? I thought they might . . . I preferred the 4-piece arrangement on both their buses and GM's Fishbowls. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 20:15:42 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 17:02:04 2023. I had very little experience on the 870s but they are not a bad looking bus. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Sun Dec 10 23:35:10 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by W.B. on Sun Dec 10 19:45:28 2023. Sorry, don't remember. I couldn't find a picture of the back either. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sun Dec 10 23:50:25 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Edwards! on Thu Dec 7 19:18:06 2023. Yup |
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[PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 11 07:39:19 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by W.B. on Sun Dec 10 08:38:12 2023. 
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Mon Dec 11 12:58:41 2023, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 11 07:39:19 2023. Yeeesch |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by chicagoMotorman on Mon Dec 11 13:45:37 2023, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 11 07:39:19 2023. COOL! |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Dec 11 23:41:22 2023, in response to [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Bill Newkirk on Mon Dec 11 07:39:19 2023. It's amazing how little of this scene has changed. However, the garages and parking spaces across the street (and behind the photographer) are long gone. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 12 09:26:41 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:31:58 2023. I think the Flxibles had little touches that I found appealing like the cursive Flxible imprinted on the window latches.That's actually how I found out about the Flxible name. In the summer of 1976, shortly before I moved to L. A., I was riding one (might have been one of the newer 1975 models) and I saw the Flxible script on the window latch, and I was like, so that's who makes these buses. All that time since 1964, I didn't know, since NYCTA had those front ads on the buses which blocked the front name plate (if there even was one, maybe the TA removed it. Of course most Flxibles had a small nameplate on the front panel above the driver, but it never occured to me to look there, I just paid the fare and made my way to (hopefully) a seat. But I was a subway guy during the time I lived in NYC, buses were just there. I only started to get into the buses during the 3 years I lived in Urbana, IL, where they had a small bus sytem (Champaign-Urbana Mass Transit District) with only 25 buses (15 new 1971 GMC T6H-4521As, supplemented by 10 used 1960 TDH-4517s obtained used from Greater Peoria MTD. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 12 09:56:00 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 12 09:26:41 2023. Very cool |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 12 14:05:36 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by chicagoMotorman on Mon Dec 11 13:45:37 2023. The photo is cool but I don’t like headlamps. I much prefer the twin lamps. |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by BILLBKLYN on Wed Dec 13 04:45:04 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 12 14:05:36 2023. I agree! |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:36:03 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:17:19 2023. Absolutely! While many of NYCTA/MABSTOA new look buses sounded quite the same... The '77 Flxibles were a totally different sounding animal with the extra gears/shifting and whining sound (especially, at speed). |
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Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:37:56 2023, in response to Re: [PHOTO] Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Tue Dec 12 14:05:36 2023. Agreed! |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:55:26 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by FYBklyn1959 on Tue Dec 12 09:26:41 2023. Yup! Regarding the builder logos the NYCTA spec'd most of their new look buses to not have the manufacturer's exterior logo on them. Even with GM those for TA/OA after 1964 no longer had the front end GMC logo on them. When the RTS came along... Those for TA/OA had the GMC logo on the front end, but most were uickly removed, and orders after 1983 no longer had the GMC logo. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:59:05 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by Catfish 44 on Sun Dec 10 16:31:58 2023. Yup! With the Blitz buses they did 23 of the '66 GMC 5303s which came back as 5000-5022 and were assigned to 100 St depot before they were moved around. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by Pelham Exp on Wed Dec 13 15:11:52 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:36:03 2023. I lived in an apartment building across the Hutchinson River Pkwy and Bx State hospital but I always knew when a 4700 Flx was traveling through the complex b/c the engine roared. |
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Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl. |
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Posted by W.B. on Wed Dec 13 15:18:12 2023, in response to Re: Thoughts on the Fishbowl., posted by WayneJay on Wed Dec 13 13:36:03 2023. The last ten Flxies built for both - 9155-9159 for the TA and 9160-9164 for MaBSTOA (the whole 1977 set was built way out of sequential order between the bus and serial numbers) were in fact 53102-8-1's rather than the 53102-6-1's they'd been getting since 1973-74. |
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