PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul (341668) | |
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PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Thu Jan 21 15:43:21 2021 https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/21/nyregion/port-authority-bus-terminal.htmlNotorious’ Port Authority Bus Terminal May Get a $10 Billion Overhaul |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jan 25 12:36:05 2021, in response to PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu Jan 21 15:43:21 2021. My personal opinion is that this is the best of all the options presented. The increase in capacity isn't anything outrageous (I'm a firm believer in putting more money into expanding rail infrastructure to shift riders from the heaviest volume bus routes to rail) and the addition of the layover/storage facility fixes a MASSIVE failure in logistics. At the moment, the vast majority of buses layover in NJ, meaning deadheading back in out the AM and back in for the PM rush, which turns the inbound Lincoln Tunnel into the thing of nightmares past 3pm |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 14:15:11 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Jan 25 12:36:05 2021. They actually have to build 2bus terminals. The first one is a temporary one to be built on swing space while they build a new one on the footprint of the old one.I don't really know if the old one is so bad that it must be leveled to the ground in order to fix it. Seems like overkill. |
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Posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Jan 25 17:18:50 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 14:15:11 2021. That's the only way to open up the air rights to bring the private development at the heart of the project. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 25 17:29:14 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by metrolinecoach111 on Mon Jan 25 17:18:50 2021. The north wing was designed with air rights in mind and with the structural ability to support an office tower. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 18:35:54 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 25 17:29:14 2021. It is like scrapping PATH cars. The 25 year old PA4's were scrapped with the 1960's and early 1970's cars. So of course they will rip down the North Terminal (once called The Annex) along with the South Terminal since the PA likes to spend a lot of money. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by Joe on Mon Jan 25 18:52:54 2021, in response to PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu Jan 21 15:43:21 2021. One must remember that the current PABT is an enlarged terminal, not merely a seventy-year old building. In 1950, buses concerned me little, but we did sometimes get a PSNJ bus to Susquehanna Transfer or a Greyhound/Vermont Transit bus to Winsted, Connecticut, from off-street terminals. PSNJ got moved into the "Port of Authority," while there was no room for Greyhound until the early 1960's. Then the north building and the third or fourth floor opened around 1979, and I had to relearn the insides of the building. I believe local streets are infested with discount coach services and jitneys, a congestion problem that was supposed to be solved in 1950. I recall how Walter's Transit brought Putnam Division commuters out of GCT to the West 41st and 7th Avenue curb. At least PABT offers shelter, lavatories, and newsstands. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 19:46:19 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe on Mon Jan 25 18:52:54 2021. Where was Greyhound until the early 1960's ?I only remember on the lower level being Greyhound gates on one side, and Trailways on the other. All the others and commuter buses were up 1 or 2 levels. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jan 27 18:35:31 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Spider-Pig on Mon Jan 25 17:29:14 2021. Ooff |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jan 27 18:35:52 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 14:15:11 2021. Yes, and the temp one they build is being converted afterwards into the layover facility |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Jan 27 18:53:39 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Mon Jan 25 19:46:19 2021. Through the 1950's Greyhound had to remain in its two off-street terminals, 34th Street (Penn Station) and 50th Street. When we would ride from NY to Winsted, the bus would start at 34th Street, then pick up more passengers at West 50th Street. This Pittsfield local was joint service with Vermont Transit. We often drew a driver off the extra board, and Dad would have to direct him on some of the highway turns and visiting the bus ticket office in Danbury.--- I can date the move into PABT because of a discussion I had with a cook on Staten Island! I don't know why the spots on the lower floor became available. --- On the other hand, the Berkshire Connector of the Thruway opened in 1959, and NY-Pittsfield direct service used NJ 17 and the Thruway, leaving only one daily local via Winsted. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 27 19:21:23 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by NIMBYkiller on Wed Jan 27 18:35:31 2021. ??? |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jan 28 18:31:35 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Spider-Pig on Wed Jan 27 19:21:23 2021. The fact that they could already develop the air rights but are still doing this |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Thu Jan 28 22:05:06 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Jan 28 18:31:35 2021. The North Wing is significantly smaller (less than half the block) than the South. Air rights for a full city block over the South Wing would be extremely lucrative in today's midtown Manhattan commercial real estate market. |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 06:45:26 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by kcram3500 on Thu Jan 28 22:05:06 2021. Yet they are to make the yet-to-be-built temporary bus terminal eventually a parking garage for buses, true ?I suppose the city will not get property tax revenue from that. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jan 29 12:19:06 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 06:45:26 2021. Why should it make a profit? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 12:25:12 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by SUBWAYMAN on Fri Jan 29 12:19:06 2021. I didn't say it should make a profit, but the City wants ratables, and likely not happy for foregoing it for Jersey's buses. |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 29 15:29:54 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 12:25:12 2021. But how much more tax revenue does the city get from all the businesses that are in the city and staffed by PABT commuters? |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 16:32:00 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 29 15:29:54 2021. I don't know, but this is additional real estate to be taken up with a bus parking lot that is not there now. Maybe the air rights will get them some tax revenue. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Jan 29 18:26:20 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 16:32:00 2021. The parking facility allows the city to gain several things:- first and foremost, traffic flow in PM rush - as was mentioned, revenue from the commuters who can now get in and out of midtown more easily - supporting businesses like coffee and sandwich shops for the drivers who are leaving their buses instead of deadheading elsewhere - assuming this pandemic is under control by the time the new PABT is complete and the temp building is just a bus parking facility, charter buses may be able to use it on weekends, which helps with tourism revenue |
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Posted by randyo on Fri Jan 29 23:45:52 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Fri Jan 29 06:45:26 2021. Even if it’s only a parking facility for the buses the city should still be entitled to tax revenue from somebody. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Jan 30 08:04:40 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 29 23:45:52 2021. Not so much tax revenue, but more likely a lease deal with the PA, similar to the airports. JFK and LaGuardia are owned by NYC, and Newark Airport is owned by Newark - the PA leases them from the cities. No reason NYC couldn't work out a similar deal for these new bus facilities. |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 30 09:10:28 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Jan 30 08:04:40 2021. Park of EWR lies in North Elizabeth. I don't think Newark licensed taxis serve those parts. |
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Posted by pragmatist on Sat Jan 30 11:16:20 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Jan 30 08:04:40 2021. Anything that gets (or keeps) more people working in NYC may be a net positive. NY collects income tax on wages earned in NYC from non residents. Prior efforts to redevelop with public private partnership plans failed more than once. |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Jan 30 12:44:33 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Sat Jan 30 09:10:28 2021. Elizabeth taxis serve Terminal A, but the city of Newark owns the airport itself. |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Jan 31 20:51:10 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by randyo on Fri Jan 29 23:45:52 2021. The city does . All the money the office workers traveling on these buses spend and all the indirect jobs . |
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Posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Jan 31 20:56:33 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by kcram3500 on Thu Jan 28 22:05:06 2021. Not post covid post bail reform nyc . The teal estate market is up 20% for homes in no and Florida . Many of the workers are pressuring their employers to open offices in the suburbs. . The exact opposite of he post Rudy era with low crime rate in nyc . High crime equals lower employment . Wife’s office is only planing to bring back 60% of the jobs to Manhattan . Rest are going to be in no , west Chester and ct. offices . Many big employers such as citi group have been shedding square ft of offices over the past 10 years and putting in more desks in the remaining offices space . This is in response to the rising office rents . Post covid , the desks are two close together . |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 1 07:43:42 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Jan 31 20:56:33 2021. Post covid , the desks are too close together . Yes, that's a problem. |
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Posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 1 09:01:14 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 1 07:43:42 2021. Over the last 15 years, corporate America has "restacked" their offices from 5' high cubicle walls to 3', and crammed them closer together with "open concept", making for a noisy and distracting environment.This has occurred as Millenials think work means yammering on conference calls all day, some pacing up and down aisles with their headsets while they yack to show all how important they are. That pettiness is now biting them in the ass with social distancing requirements. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 1 17:07:11 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 1 09:01:14 2021. In our mechanical drafting room, the drafting desks were very close together in the 1960s-70s.Your storage desk was part of the drafting desk behind you.The last drafting desk in line had a separate flat top desk behind him. |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Mon Feb 1 18:43:20 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Jan 29 18:26:20 2021. That last part, if it happens, is especially beneficial for Hells Kitchen residents, businesses, and potential developers, as right now summer turns the neighborhood into a never ending game of charter buses playing musical chairs, along with a few commuter buses like Trans Bridge and, before they closed, Beiber. |
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Posted by SUBWAYMAN on Tue Feb 2 01:07:31 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Brightonr68 on Sun Jan 31 20:56:33 2021. Where do you get your stories from? |
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Posted by Snilcher on Tue Feb 2 11:51:16 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by Joe V on Mon Feb 1 09:01:14 2021. Admittedly this is straying off topic for BusChat, but the company where I worked until my recent retirement had been moving toward an "open floor" concept until they finally ran out of money for renovations, so my department was fortunately spared losing their individual offices.Universally, management loved the idea and the engineers all hated it. There were loads of studies quoted which all agreed that it made the office less productive, not more. The professed rationale behind the conversions was to increase collaboration between groups, but at the same time it was suggested that employees minimize talking to keep the environment as quiet as possible to let people do their work. The main reason companies go this way is to save money on office setup and reshuffles during personnel moves. |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Feb 2 16:24:04 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by TransitChuckG on Mon Feb 1 17:07:11 2021. When I transitioned into drawing with Auto-Cad, with a different company, and eventually 3-D modeling , we all had cubicles with computers, desk space and file cabinets. The cubicle walls were nice, but you could still hear your neighbor talking on the phone, etc. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH! |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Feb 11 15:18:55 2021, in response to PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu Jan 21 15:43:21 2021. I guess the PANYNJ never heard of the huge Work From Home trend that is here to stay. Most NJ commuters are very happy doing WFH from the safety and security of their suburban homes. Also remember that many of these commuters higher level employees with the kind of jobs suited to WFH. They are saving hundreds each month and getting hours of their day back. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH! |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 16:16:58 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH!, posted by Dan on Thu Feb 11 15:18:55 2021. We don't know what will happen post-pandemic.Employers do not care what makes their employees happy. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WFH! |
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Posted by Dan on Thu Feb 11 16:27:43 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH!, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 16:16:58 2021. True but WFH saves employers millions a year in expensive NYC office rents. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WFH! |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 16:28:48 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WFH!, posted by Dan on Thu Feb 11 16:27:43 2021. If they are in 10 year leases, that won't matter. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH! |
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Posted by Spider-Pig on Thu Feb 11 17:41:40 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH!, posted by Dan on Thu Feb 11 15:18:55 2021. Why am I not surprised that you mentioned “safety and security of their suburban homes?”The 80s called, they want their fear of crime back. |
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Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH! |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Fri Feb 12 17:40:33 2021, in response to Re: PABT may get $10 Billion overhaul WTF? WTH!, posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 11 16:16:58 2021. Employers do not care what makes their employees happy.Smart employers do, since a satisfied employee is likely to be more productive, and remain in the position longer. |
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