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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 12:26:41 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 10 10:48:01 2020.

The MTA states in the draft report that no one should have to pay an extra fare. They don't say they will make sure that no one has to. I think they will add transfers after the fact based on high volume complaints because they aren't willing to change their general policy and don't want to do the work to determine where extra transfers would be needed. A little like the way they are removing bus stops. Propose removing more than you have to, then return the ones that receive the highest number of complaints, letting the public do the work they are getting paid to do. Some will end up paying extra fares.

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(337558)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 13:00:57 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 12:22:27 2020.

IAWTP

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(337559)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 13:02:33 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 10:31:18 2020.

I don't think that increasing cycling necessarily increases fatalities, or at least they don't increase proportionately. If there are more cyclists, motorists are more likely to be aware of them and respond accordingly.

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(337561)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by AlM on Fri Jan 10 13:36:50 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 13:02:33 2020.

There seems to be correlation. As cycling increases, so have cycling deaths.

I can't demonstrate cause and effect, however.





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(337567)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by JAzumah on Fri Jan 10 14:44:14 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 12:26:41 2020.

Unlimited transfers for 2 hours would smooth over the annoyance.

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(337569)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by New Flyer #857 on Fri Jan 10 15:24:45 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by JAzumah on Fri Jan 10 14:44:14 2020.

I agree, with some reasonable exceptions (e.g. not using the same bus route twice, not entering the subway more than once or twice).

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(337570)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 16:27:24 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 13:02:33 2020.

It's not only a question of motorists being aware. You have to look at the cause and type of accidents. A disproportionate amount occur with large vehicles like trucks and buses, probably because it is more difficult for those drivers to see cyclists. Also, many or most of the accidents involve turning vehicles.

Add to that that some cyclists are reckless or ride so as to be invisible without headlights, reflectors, or reflective gear at night, or ride where motorists don't expect to see them like down the middle of the road on the double yellow line, and some motorists are careless. All this makes for disaster so it stands to reason that as the number of cyclists increase the number of fatalities will also increase unless we improve education and visibility.

Transportation Alternatives would like you to believe that the answer is simply more protected lanes. It is not.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 16:31:57 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by JAzumah on Fri Jan 10 14:44:14 2020.

I proposed that years ago and keep proposing that to the MTA but they wouldn't study it.



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(337572)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 16:51:18 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 16:27:24 2020.

Also, streetsblog also has a massive anti-car/truck bias. I remember reading an article there about a cycle fatality where it was obvious from the description that the cyclist was at fault, and yet of course they blamed the driver.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 10 18:13:47 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 16:31:57 2020.

The MTA's line is that it's a revenue loser.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 18:57:19 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Spider-Pig on Fri Jan 10 16:51:18 2020.

Of course. Worse yet, they claim that a protected bike lane could avoid every accident. They even fought for and got a protected lane on 9th Street when the lady who shouldn't have been driving killed a pedestrian a few years ago A bike wasn't even involved and Transportation Alternatives used it as a reason for the bike lane, and deBlasio listened, ignoring residents who claimed the lane made things more dangerous by diverting cars to 8th and 10th Streets.

Did you see the viral Borough Park Video of a kid dashing out in front of a car? There is no way the driver could have stopped in time. The headline should have been for parent's to instruct their children not to be idiots. The person who pusted the video said he did so to alert parents to tell their children to cross at the corner.

So what did the media do with this video. They showed it asking motorists to SLOW DOWN and be aware. Again to make it appear like it was the driver's fault. So what will be deBlasio do lower the speed limit to 10 mph? He still would have struck the kid. By some miracle, the kid appeared to be unhurt.

Imagine if the kid would have been killed and there would not have been a dashcam video. Would anyone believe the driver that the accident was unavoidable?

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 19:07:47 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 10 18:13:47 2020.

They are assuming that it wouldn't encourage any new trips. That's why they believe it is a revenue loser. It is the same reason they used for 50 years not to allow universal free bus transfers, because they assumed it wouldn't result in new trips being made. Ridership rose 30 percent after bus to bus and bus subway transfers started.

Many people don't want to pay for a round trip just to make a short errand, but would do so if they could combine several errands.

People assume the "experts" know what they are doing. Around 1966, I spoke to Theodore Kheel and asked him to fight for free transfers for all bus users. This was four years after MaBSTOA abolished all bus transfers, but Brooklyn allowed free transfers at about half the intersections. He told me he had no idea there were free transfers in Brooklyn.

So the chief labor negotiator who was also involved with the fare, didn't even know the fare structure in the city. It made me wonder what else do these so called experts not know that us bus riders do know.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by JAzumah on Sat Jan 11 04:53:32 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Stephen Bauman on Fri Jan 10 18:13:47 2020.

I am not so sure that is the case. They could try it outside of rush hours for starters when they have excess capacity and see if the numbers change. That is the whole point of an electronic fare system.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by Snilcher on Sat Jan 11 08:26:50 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 10 18:57:19 2020.

It's not just DeBlasio reducing speed limits to absurd levels. The city of Cambridge, MA recently lowered their in-city speed limit from 25 mph to 20 mph (except for "larger, arterial roads", but which ones precisely were not specified).

But Cambridge has always been trying to actively discourage people from using cars in general.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 11 19:52:26 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by Snilcher on Sat Jan 11 08:26:50 2020.

De Blasio originally promised when he unveiled Vision Zero that arterial will not be affected. He lied. Those were the first streets he went after with his slow speed zones.


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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by N6 Limited on Sun Jan 12 20:18:27 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 11 19:52:26 2020.

The fact that bus speeds were reduced after Vision Zero was enacted is no coincidence.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 12 21:31:50 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Sat Jan 11 19:52:26 2020.

But the city will blame cars for the slower speeds, not the mayor.

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(337623)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by N6 Limited on Mon Jan 13 00:34:57 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Sun Jan 12 21:31:50 2020.

It's quite the elephant in the room, isn't it? They even go so far as to use 2015+ as a base year and not 2014, the year Vision Zero was enacted.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 14 18:31:33 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 8 23:45:01 2020.

You're confounding the topics. You're talking about limited-stop routes that parallel subway lines. I'm talking about limited-stop routes in general, most of which do not parallel subway lines for any significant distance (key word, most. Yes, I'm aware of routes like the B49 and M5 that are the exception)

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 14 18:34:48 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 9 13:41:59 2020.

You said

People walk to a Limited stop instead of the closer local stop not because they don't mind the walk or want a faster bus.

They do it because the MTA decimated local schedules when adding Limited and SBS without the improving reliability. People know if they wait at the local stop, they could wait a half hour and miss two Limited buses, so they walk extra.
I'm saying that is not true.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 15 08:55:26 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 14 18:34:48 2020.

I meant to say SBS not Limited. According to the NYC Comptroller, SBS only slightly improved reliability. In many cases riders complained of poorer local service when SBS was added, especially on the M15 and the B46, so it does encourage some to walk further to an SBS stop although they would rather take the local. For those people because of the extra walking, they are not saving time with the SBS.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Jan 15 19:53:23 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 15 08:55:26 2020.

That is true for some riders but cannot be generalized as a behavior that people have. Some are only doing it because the local service is bad, and others really do prefer to walk further for the quicker bus, even if they are only traveling a relatively short distance.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 15 20:33:01 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Wed Jan 15 19:53:23 2020.

If you are traveling a short distance it is doubtful if you will save any extra time with the extra walking if the buses are running on time. But since most know how unreliable the buses are, they choose to walk just in case the local is delayed.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by N6 Limited on Thu Jan 16 19:59:05 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed Jan 15 20:33:01 2020.

Walking is good exercise, maybe people should be walking more?

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu Jan 16 22:56:59 2020, in response to Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by N6 Limited on Thu Jan 16 19:59:05 2020.

Of course they should if they could. But not everyone can.

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Re: Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings

Posted by BrooklynBus on Fri Jan 17 09:51:39 2020, in response to Sign if you agree. RE:bus stop spacings, posted by TransitChuckG on Tue Jan 7 12:57:44 2020.

In only ten days, we got 424 signatures. One hundred in just the last day. Thanks to those who signed and continue to spread the word on social media such as Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, so we can get more signatures.

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