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| (332891) | |
America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019 America w/o Greyhound |
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| (332894) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 15 14:55:22 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. For all the dismal nay-saying about the conditions at "The Hound", they sure poured some bucks into their new digs in PABT, NYC. Go check that out.Sorry I missed the inaugural festivities yesterday. Confetti, paper cups & plates very much in evidence when I went though there. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 15 17:50:25 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 15 14:55:22 2019. There is no longer any transcontinental bus service across Canada from Sudbury to Vancouver. There are only disconnected bits and pieces of some start-up outfits. You can only get to Sault Sainte Marie, ON via Michigan (Indian Trails and International Bridge Bus).VIA Rail cuts in 1990 were made based on no trains beyond the Corridor where there is a bus, except for the Halifax routes. So their western transcon train is on the CN. Now the CP cities have neither trains nor buses. The Greyhound map across the US is also getting very sparse. |
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| (332897) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 15 18:44:58 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. This is not a surprise. Americans wanted the travel without the time. In this market, it started with PeoplEXPRESS. When I was in college in Pittsburgh in the mid 80s, PE and GL were the same price, but it was 9-10 hours vs 1 hour. More recently, Southwest got aggressive with expansion and discount fares, and the larger airlines had to compete or lose customers. So now you have airlines offering dirt-cheap fares on the condition you don't bring much besides yourself. Then the larger airlines partnered with smaller regional carriers to get to the smaller cities with the smaller regional jets.The irony is, buses and Amtrak can be more comfortable. The seats are definitely larger on the bus and train... - Airline economy seats: 17-18" width - 102-inch motorcoach seats: 20.5" width - Amtrak seats: 23" width Legroom is similarly better in a bus and best on a train unless you are in sleeper-seat class on an airplane. Then came Megabus and all the regional ethnic carriers who greatly undercut GL's fares by picking up on the street and ticketing online, eliminating GL's overhead of using terminals. So Greyhound faces... - increased airline competition to small markets - increased bus competition from carriers who don't need a national route structure or the physical plant of terminals - if travel time is not a factor and they have the route, Amtrak is more comfortable, cost-competitive to a full-fare bus ticket, and offers more amenities NJ Transit owns more motorcoaches than Greyhound - 40 years ago, that would have been unthinkable. Even after NJT began buying MCIs as "suburbans" in 1982, Greyhound still dwarfed NJT's fleet. Now, GL owns about 1100 units, while NJT owns over 1500 (about a third of which are leased to private carriers in the state). Further cuts to the Dog could result in NJT actually owning -and- operating more coaches than GL. Greyhound will probably fragment to a multi-regional carrier in the markets they're strongest - northeast, California, and a couple of others. They may have a couple of transcon runs that are split in cities like Chicago, St. Louis, and Dallas, but New York-to-Los Angeles won't be back. |
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| (332898) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Italianstallion on Fri Feb 15 21:53:01 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 15 18:44:58 2019. They do own Bolt Bus. Maybe that willbe their future business model. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 16 00:12:50 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. I wonder how much Megabus and those type companies are affecting Greyhound. If Greyhound disappear I suspect those companies will pick up the slack anyway. |
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| (332900) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 16 00:42:14 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 15 17:50:25 2019. Service to Sault Ste. Marie is accessible from Toronto via Ontario Northland.Beyond Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario Northland continues to White River. From White River, Kasper Transportation provides service onward to Winnipeg (via Sioux Lookout), and both Kelsey Bus Lines and Maple Bus Lines continue to Dauphin. The gap is between Dauphin, Man., and Melville, Sask., a distance of 135 miles (215 km). From Melville, DiCal Transport goes to Regina; then Rider Express to Edmonton (via Saskatoon); then Pacific Western or Cold Shot to Calgary; then Rider Express again to Vancouver. Or Cold Shot from Edmonton to Dawson Creek (via Grande Prairie); then BC Bus North to Prince Rupert (via Prince George); then BC Ferries to Port Hardy; then Tofino Bus to Nanaimo; then BC Ferries to Horseshoe Bay; then Tofino Bus to Vancouver. An adventure, to say the least. |
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| (332901) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by mtatransit on Sat Feb 16 03:48:17 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 16 00:42:14 2019. Toronto-White River Via ONTC 7:15PM- 3:50PM next day Everyday except Sunday I believe (8 hrs, 35 minutes)A night layover at White River (15 hr + 20 minutes) Kasper White River-Thunder Bay 7:10AM next morning to thunder Bay at 12:20PM (5 hr 10 minutes) A night layover at Thunder Bay (21 hrs and 10 minutes) Kasper Thunder Bay- Winnipeg 9:30AM to 7:40PM (10 hr + 10 minutes) This is essentially 3 nights since leaving Toronto.(60 hrs 25 minutes) From Winnipeg, there are multiple operators heading up to Flin Flon Via Dauphin (50 min layover at best, otherwise add 24 hr) Kelsey leaves at 8:30PM (It is very unlikely to connect from Kasper to Kelsey due to different station) gets to Dauphin, MB at 12:50AM (4 hrs + 20 min) OR Brandon Air service provides transportation between Winnipeg to Brandon leaving WPG at 11A, 3 and 8PM taking 2 hours in a half NO SERVICE BETWEEN BRANDON/DAUPHIN TO MELVILLE OR YORKTON. Yorkton Shuttle provides daily service btw Yorkton and Regina at 8 AM, (2 hr + 30 min) DiCal service starts at Melville to Regina at 6:30AM getting there at 8:45AM. (2 hr + 15 Min) ONE DAY LAYOVER AT REGINA,SK (22 hr 45 minutes) Riders Express leaves Regina at 7:30AM M-F and arrives at Edmonton at 4:20PM Via Saskatoon (8 hr + 50 minutes) Edmonton Layover (1 hr 25 min at best otherwise (most probable +24 hrs) (Btw Cold Shot have not begin service to Dawson Creek yet, they still currently end at GP) E Bus at 5:45PM (most likely will not connect with rider express due to stop differences so most likely +1 night at Edmonton), gets to Calgary at 9:30PM (3 hr + 45 min) Calgary layover 22 hr + 45 min) Rider Express at 7:15AM FRIDAYS ONLY leaves Calgary and finally gets to Vancouver at 8PM (12 hr + 45 minutes) Total journey time from WPG to Van excluding the gap- 79 hr 55 min Total Journey time between in total Toronto to Vancouver excluding 100 mile gap of no service 140 hr + 20 min AT BEST (impossible) or around 200 hours (8.3 days) (reasonable) Essentially that is one way to see most of Western Canada with a 100 miles of hitchhiking. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 06:38:04 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by mtatransit on Sat Feb 16 03:48:17 2019. Didn't hear about that with Ontario Northland. Did it start when GLC collapsed in November ?Stil makes for some very fragmented trips cross-country |
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| (332903) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 07:01:18 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 16 00:12:50 2019. Not much where Greyhound yanks the most service. Megabus tends to run in populated corridors. That is not western Canada,or America west of Minneaoplis, Omaha, and Kansas City.Most of the original Continental Trailways system that Greyhound took over is gone. There's a few smaller Trailways franchises that filled in several states (Fullington, Burlington). |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 16 09:27:06 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 07:01:18 2019. I can see Megabus or the like picking up the slack forat least connecting the cities of the west if Greyhound goes under seeing new markets to explore (ex Kansas City am very familiar with Adirondack Trailways and Pine Hill Trailways in upstate NY. I figure there were similar Trailways around the country like in the west. |
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| (332908) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Feb 16 11:55:42 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. Chuck: That is a very interesting article. Thank you for the link. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (332909) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 16 12:55:13 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 06:38:04 2019. It started around the time of Greyhound Canada's withdrawal, or a little before then. Initially, Ontario Northland had made an arrangement with Kasper Transportation to connect at Hearst, and for a short time (prior to the Greyhound Canada discontinuance) Kasper extended its route serving Longlac to Hearst, and it made good connections. But it must not have performed well, because after a very short period of time it was pulled back to Longlac. Subsequently, and in connection with the Greyhound Canada withdrawal, Kasper began a new route connecting Thunder Bay with White River, purposefully to fill the Greyhound Canada gap. But in doing so, Kasper looked only at local traffic, people who might be traveling from those otherwise-unserved communities into Thunder Bay, and scheduled a daytime journey. No thought given to through passengers from Toronto, all of whom now have to spend the night in White River (two motels, limited number of rooms). BTW, both Ontario Northland and the Budd car arrive and depart White River at the same times, more or less, with neither making direct connections with Kasper. Essentially it is the same reason why Amtrak is needed for long-distance trainst: if individual states provided subsidies, no state would want to pay for a train at 3:00 a.m. Same thing with Kasper and Ontario Northland: all daytime trips, with nothing overnight. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:47:18 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by BusMgr on Sat Feb 16 12:55:13 2019. I think VIA Rail should shift the Canadian to the CP east of Winnipeg, rather than the White River RDC, and run a remote train Winnipeg - Capreol instead.But Justin Trudeau is not interested in anything at all beyond the Corridor, and then not even to Sarnia or Niagara Falls. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:51:45 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 16 09:27:06 2019. You can concoct a Trailways trips with transfers form Galesburg to Denver. Otherwise, you must take Greyhound via Kansas City.Greyhound no longer runs Salt Lake City - Sacramento. Amtrak was honoring their tickets for a time. Greyhound has fragmented trips Salt Lake - Denver via Grand Junctions, which was Continental Trailways, but mostly an I-80 service between LA, San Francisco, to New York. I used to ride it eats of Williamsport,PA in the 1970's on overnight trips down from Buffalo. |
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| (332912) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:56:25 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 15 14:55:22 2019. Greyhound in the US and Canada is going the way of Sears-Roebuck.Greyhound stopped printing timetables and Sears stopped printing their catalog. It was as thick as the Queens phonebook. Every household had one, and you could buy anything. With photos, it was fun to spend hours going through it. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Feb 16 16:31:54 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by r17-6599 on Fri Feb 15 14:55:22 2019. I believe that the American map would be filled in better, but bus sizes would change (shrink). |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by W.B. on Sun Feb 17 07:22:06 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Feb 16 11:55:42 2019. I was reading the part that whereas there are countless advocates for rail travel via Amtrak, hardly any are around to stand up for intercity bus travel. I have to wonder, is this a bitter aftertaste among some from what they see as the so-called "conspiracy" by GM to eliminate streetcars from American cities and replace them with motorized buses in a conversion long referred to as "rails to rubber"? |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 17 07:57:17 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by W.B. on Sun Feb 17 07:22:06 2019. The income level of intercity bus riders tends to be lower than other modes, so they tend to attract less support. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 10:53:44 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 17 07:57:17 2019. Greyhound's terrible customer service with near-Amtrak prices did that.If the likes of Megabus took over all the routes, that would be fantastic. Low income isn't necessarily bad; Megabus is cheaper yet more pleasant. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by BusRider on Sun Feb 17 11:09:36 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 10:53:44 2019. Do they have any accessible vehicles yet? |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by TransitChuckG on Sun Feb 17 18:40:58 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Sat Feb 16 11:55:42 2019. My pleasure , IRTRedbirdR33 |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Feb 19 11:08:25 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by W.B. on Sun Feb 17 07:22:06 2019. No, I don't think it is the result of that "conspiracy." Rather, there exists a romance to railroad travel that just does not exist for bus travel. A railroad train is distinct from a motor vehicle, in its size, its propulsion, and in its accommodations. It provides something special that cannot be had in other forms of overland transportation. In contrast, a bus is viewed as an oversized automobile, something that nearly everyone has in their garage. A bus is almost universally a simple container with plain seats inside. Now conversion buses, used by entertainers and some others, receive many oohs and aahs because they are distinct, and treat their passengers like royalty. But an ordinary bus? There is little fanfare for a boring waiting room on wheels. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by orange blossom special on Wed Feb 20 10:43:38 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. "struggling, medium-sized city of Reading "Sanctury status didn't save it? I see more of every other type of bus on the road than I do Greyhound. I only see that at the station. Maybe the network is bigger, but even in nowheresville that I'm at, there are a lot of inconvenient choices that go everywhere. Maybe PA is too restrictive? |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by DieselBusFan on Wed Feb 20 16:25:16 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. I have ridden and followed Greyhound over many years. Its network has contracted rather substantially. But in some cases other carriers have filled in. An example is Jefferson Lines in the Upper Mid-West. Greyhound gave up the route from Minneapolis to Fargo, but Jefferson Lines seems to be doing ok on this former Greyhound route. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Wed Feb 20 17:09:02 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by DieselBusFan on Wed Feb 20 16:25:16 2019. They do, but at drastically reduced frequencies, relegating some areas only to a middle of the night bus. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by ntrainride on Thu Feb 21 01:10:11 2019, in response to America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by TransitChuckG on Fri Feb 15 05:26:06 2019. cars ruined everything. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by hound on Thu Feb 21 14:35:15 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by DieselBusFan on Wed Feb 20 16:25:16 2019. They actually gave up the route all the way to Billings,then to Missoula & now all the way to Spokane. Jeff now runs the whole route. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:02:33 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 15 17:50:25 2019. The Greyhound map may be but other operators have been stepping in, including Jefferson Lines. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:21:08 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Joe V on Sat Feb 16 13:51:45 2019. Greyhound is still selling that route as Sacramento to Reno by bus and then on the train to Salt Lake City |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:24:08 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Sun Feb 17 10:53:44 2019. Megabus may cease to exist. Stagecoach just sold off Coach USA to a private equity group (aka a chop shop) |
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| (333006) | |
Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:24:59 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by JAzumah on Sun Feb 17 07:57:17 2019. $25-$50K is the largest piece of that pie, next largest being $50K-$75K if I'm not mistaken |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:26:31 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Ftgreeneg on Sat Feb 16 00:12:50 2019. Megabus is the one that may disappear. Stagecoach sold Coach USA to a private equity group (read: Chop Shop) at a major loss. Greyhound though is definitely on shaky legs. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Joe V on Thu Feb 21 17:41:39 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:24:08 2019. In Canada. Trentway-Wager is also called Coach Canada, yet they seem to market their buses now as Megabus. I don't konw if they run ordinary 45' Cruisers or Blue double-deckers. Some years ago T-W ate Voyageur-Colonial |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Feb 21 20:53:05 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:24:08 2019. Interesting, I didn't know that. Found the Press Release.That sucks, Coach USA's various brands like Short Line and Megabus were always high quality. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Ftgreeneg on Fri Feb 22 04:32:32 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:26:31 2019. Whoa. Always seemed like Megabus was doing good business. |
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Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement) |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 22 11:39:55 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by Henry R32 #3730 on Thu Feb 21 20:53:05 2019. That sucks, Coach USA's various brands like Short Line and Megabus were always high quality.Coach USA destroyed Red & Tan, both Hudson Bus (gone) and Rockland Coaches (a shell of itself). ONE Bus gets plenty of complaints, South orange Avenue is slicing service, and Olympia Trails frequently ran transit buses on the Newark Airport-PABT route. ShortLine and Suburban succeed because corporate bothers to order new equipment for those operations... Rockland generally gets new buses only when NJT orders them. |
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Re: Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement) |
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Posted by Bill from Maspeth on Fri Feb 22 14:17:09 2019, in response to Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement), posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 22 11:39:55 2019. These takeovers are seldom for the better. |
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Re: Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement) |
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Posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 22 16:05:26 2019, in response to Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement), posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 22 11:39:55 2019. It's like Trailways. Big differences form one company to another. US DOT shut down Rimrock Trailways over safety issues in 2013. Fullington ate Susquehanna scheduled services in 2017. |
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Re: Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement) |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Feb 22 18:01:16 2019, in response to Re: Coach USA sale (was Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement), posted by Joe V on Fri Feb 22 16:05:26 2019. Not the same at all. Trailways is an association - independently owned companies join as members and pay to use the Trailways name. Coach USA bought and fully owned all of their operating companies. Huge difference when there's someone at the top calling the shots for all the companies within. Conversely, some companies find being a Trailways member exhausts its function... in New England, both Peter Pan and Concord were Trailways members 20 years ago - both have since left the association but have continued to do well without them. |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Dyre Dan on Sat Feb 23 11:22:03 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by NIMBYkiller on Thu Feb 21 17:26:31 2019. Greyhound owns Bolt Bus, which is similar to Megabus. Perhaps they will shift more of their operations to Bolt? |
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Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement |
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Posted by Are dee em on Sat Feb 23 14:28:38 2019, in response to Re: America w/o Greyhound and no replacement, posted by BusMgr on Tue Feb 19 11:08:25 2019. I agree. I was fortunate to have worked on the railroad (freight side mostly) from 1977-2002. There was something mysterious and distinct about it. The feeling of hanging on the lowest step of the locomotive and being propelled by such a huge mass was intoxicating. To be exposed to such a historic way of moving freight was borderlne dangerous but thrilling. Still used lanterns for the most part, 2 way radios just coming on line. |
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