|
|
| M-13 Journal Building Bus Line (315982) | |
 |
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (315982) | |
M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016 While doing some research for the Almanac I came across the following item that might be of interest to bus historians. The M-13 Journal Building Omnibus Line began running sometime in 1954. The route was from William Street via New Chambers Street, Pike Street, Pike Slip, and South Street to the Journal Building at Market Slip and Catherine Street. Returning buses ran via South Street, James Slip and New Chamber Street to William Street. Over the years there was some route adjustments. Sometime after 1960 it was re-numbered to M-15 S. It was discontinued on May13, 1966. It was always operated by the New York City Transit Authority and was not a successor to a streetcar route. Service resumed on February 15, 1970 and was permanently discontinued on April 1, 1971. The Journal Building referred to was the headquarters for the New York Journal newspaper, later known as the Journal-American. The route appears on the Hagstom Bus Maps of the early 1960’s. The route was suspended from 1966 to 1970 and so does not appear on the 1969 MTA Manhattan Bus Map. (Thanks to Mr. Bernard Linder for his research on this. The map information is mine.) Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (315984) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by HART BUS on Tue Jul 12 14:30:43 2016, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. A minor footnote to your report. The Journal-American, along with the Herald Tribune(US)and the World, Telegram and Sun merged sometime in September 1966. This merger was an attempt to compete with the Post, Times and Daily News. The attempt was unsuccessful and the whole shebang folded in May 1967.Sometime between May of 1967 and about 1972, the NY Post moved their production facilities into the Journal American Building. |
|
|
| (315989) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 16:47:53 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by HART BUS on Tue Jul 12 14:30:43 2016. A minor footnote to your report. The Journal-American, along with the Herald Tribune(US)and the World, Telegram and Sun merged sometime in September 1966. This merger was an attempt to compete with the Post, Times and Daily News. The attempt was unsuccessful and the whole shebang folded in May 1967.Alan: I remember that strike well. It killed off three good newspapers. The Mirror had already gone. A few years later I was stationed in Europe and had access to the International Herald Tribune. It was a much better paper than the house organ "Stars and Stripes". BTW The Journal American was the preferred newspaper for death notices. If you wanted to find out who died that was the place to go. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (315990) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by transitbuff on Tue Jul 12 17:36:57 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by HART BUS on Tue Jul 12 14:30:43 2016. Operated from 126th St. Depot |
|
|
| (315992) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by northshore on Tue Jul 12 19:57:13 2016, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. I trust Mr. Linder and his research. I was under the impression that the Journal Building Shuttle goes back to 1933 and was run by Comprehensive Omnibus Corp, until BoT takeover in 1948. Bot/NYCTA then operated it. The M15-S designation was adopted 1963. The line was totally discontinued in 1966 and replaced with a diversion on some runs of the M15 until 1970 when Police Plaza was built, closing may of the route's streets. Motor Coach Age (Jan 04) may shed some light. |
|
|
| (316010) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jul 13 06:31:43 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by northshore on Tue Jul 12 19:57:13 2016. Northshore: It does seems odd that that such a route would just pop up in 1954 and for what reason. I do known that when the NYCTA took over the Comprehensive routes in 1948 they acquired only three lines, M-1 Madison-Chambers Streets, M-3 49-50 Streets and M-7 65 Street Crosstown. Thanks for your research. Much of the Manhattan bus picture from the 1950's and 60's has never been completely documented.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
|
|
| (316026) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by nostalgia on Wed Jul 13 12:11:52 2016, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. HMMM. I have an undated Hagstrom's map with a pencil notation"6/8/43." It shows Omnibus M13 operating on today's 8th Street crosstown. |
|
|
| (316034) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by northshore on Wed Jul 13 16:00:30 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by nostalgia on Wed Jul 13 12:11:52 2016. Manhattan bus routes numbers can be a quagmire of quicksand. The 8th Street Crosstown was a New York City Omnibus Corporation route.The NYC Omnibus had its own route numbering system that differed from the official NYC Bureau of Franchises designation.8th Street Crosstown was NYCO Route 13. The official franchise designation was M16.East Side Omnibus Corporation had M13 First Avenue, and M15 Second Avenue. In later years, when First and Second Avenues became one-way, both routes were designated M15. The M13 designation for the Journal Bldg. Shuttle was probably an offshoot the East Side's M13. |
|
|
| (316035) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by northshore on Wed Jul 13 16:00:30 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by nostalgia on Wed Jul 13 12:11:52 2016. Manhattan bus routes numbers can be a quagmire of quicksand. The 8th Street Crosstown was a New York City Omnibus Corporation route.The NYC Omnibus had its own route numbering system that differed from the official NYC Bureau of Franchises designation.8th Street Crosstown was NYCO Route 13. The official franchise designation was M16.East Side Omnibus Corporation had M13 First Avenue, and M15 Second Avenue. In later years, when First and Second Avenues became one-way, both routes were designated M15. The M13 designation for the Journal Bldg. Shuttle was probably an offshoot the East Side's M13. |
|
|
| (316231) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by andy on Sun Jul 17 15:28:55 2016, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Wed Jul 13 06:31:43 2016. On the same day in 1948 Board of Transportation (not NYCTA, which did not yet exist) acquired three additional routes from East Side Omnibus, which was under common ownership with Comprehensive Omnibus. Those routes were M11 York Ave., M13 1st Ave., M15 2nd Ave. The last two were of course combined into the M15 when 1st and 2nd Avenues became one way in June 1951. |
|
|
| (326382) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Wed Nov 15 17:50:43 2017, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by andy on Sun Jul 17 15:28:55 2016. However, if a 1954 Hagstrom bus map of Manhattan routes is to be believed, prior to M-13 being repurposed and reconstituted as the Journal Building shuttle, both it and M-15 had gone up First Avenue and down Second Avenue since the 1951 one-way conversions. |
|
|
| (326383) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Wed Nov 15 17:53:56 2017, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. A 1966 bus map of Manhattan routes put out by The Chase Manhattan Bank (after the one-way conversions of Fifth and Madison Avenues, but before ex-FACCo 2 was rebranded as 2A) listed the said Journal Building shuttle but identified it as M-13 instead of M-15S. This was evidently before the May 1966 discontinuance of said shuttle. |
|
|
| (328390) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Sun Apr 22 04:17:13 2018, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. It would appear that the M-13 was actually reconstituted, repurposed and rebooted as the Journal Building Omnibus Line in or around 1958. Three things cinch this:- The aforementioned 1955 Hagstrom's map of New York [Manhattan] bus lines and trolley lines, which had both M-13 and M-15 traveling up First and down Second. - The 1957 Fifth Avenue Coach Lines map of FACO and NYCO Division routes - which listed transfers for "M-13 First Avenue" and "M-15 Second Avenue" (apparently they were still known by their pre-one-way-conversion nomenclatures at this late date) and the four other TA bus routes. - The first bus map to mention M-13 Journal Building was the 1958 edition of Hagstrom's map of New York [Manhattan] bus lines. Some years ago, as put up and sold on eBay, also, a front left rollsign (from a Mack? a GM TDH-5106?) which was dated 1958 not only mentioned "M13 Journal Building," but also showed how M15 was redesignated as "First and Second Avenues." |
|
|
| (329484) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Mon Jun 18 19:44:01 2018, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. Having checked paper transfers and snippets of "Proceedings of the New York City Transit Authority" from affected years, it appears that M-13 was applicable to what was characterized by the TA as the William Street-Journal Building line right up to its 1966 discontinuance; and the 'M-15S' designation was from its 1970-71 revival. The 1969 edition of the TA's "Proceedings" mentioned a proposal to revive what they called "the South Street branch" of the M-15, ergo in that revived version it no doubt would have been designated as the South Street shuttle. ('S' in M-15S = South Street.) |
|
|
| (329485) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Mon Jun 18 19:45:43 2018, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by northshore on Tue Jul 12 19:57:13 2016. A paper transfer issued January 1964 mentioned the route as 'M-13-15 Journal Bus'. |
|
|
| (329486) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Mon Jun 18 19:48:17 2018, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by northshore on Wed Jul 13 16:00:30 2016. "The M13 designation for the Journal Bldg. Shuttle was probably an offshoot [of] the East Side's M13."Oh, it sure was. The TA itself, one year (1967) after M-13 Journal Building's elimination, referred to it as the "South Street branch (William Street-Journal Building, Manhattan)," and in the index cross-referenced the M-15 which as early as 1955 was designated "First and Second Avenues." |
|
|
| (329499) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by MainR3664 on Tue Jun 19 16:00:11 2018, in response to M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Tue Jul 12 11:32:16 2016. The 1971 termination of service was probably connected to the permanent closure of New Chambers Street, which was demapped to allow the construction of 1 Police Plaza. |
|
|
| (334900) | |
Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line |
|
|
Posted by W.B. on Fri Jun 21 04:37:36 2019, in response to Re: M-13 Journal Building Bus Line, posted by northshore on Wed Jul 13 16:00:30 2016. A year after the 1966 demise of the M-13 Journal Building bus, a transcript of a TA proceeding suggested that it was a branch of the M-15 First and Second Avenues line. Certainly by the time the TA took over bus and subway operations for the BoT in June 1953, M-15 was already the go-to designation for the combined First and Second Avenues line (though it wasn't until after '53 that this was acknowledged on paper transfers issued by TA Manhattan Bus Division routes, and until after '57 when the 7000 series GM TDH-5106's first entered service when it would be shown as such on front roll signs). |
|
|