Query on M5 History

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Query on M5 History
Posted by W.B. on Thu Feb 23 08:54:15 2017 edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr This has to do with the Wikipedia entry for what they call the "Fifth and Sixth Avenues Line." In it, they go into the history of the NYCO #5 which went from 59th Street to South Ferry - and was discontinued in late 1963 when Sixth Avenue was made one-way northbound south of Herald Square (north of same was so converted in 1957), and the #6's northbound route shifted to Sixth. But they do NOT mention the history of FACCO's #5 from which today's M5 was descended; no mention of its history from 1900, its Fifth Avenue-Riverside Drive route - no mention of at what point its southernmost terminus was shifted out of Washington Square (post-ban on vehicle traffic through the park c.1964) and changed to Houston Street and West Broadway (more specifically, on that side of the intersection, La Guardia Place), no mention of when its northbound route south of 57th Street was moved to Sixth (was it then, or after Fifth Avenue's one-way southbound conversion in January 1966?), nor as to its northernmost expansion along Washington Heights to 178th Street upon or after the opening of the George Washington Bridge Bus Terminal.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by northshore* on Thu Feb 23 10:28:28 2017, in response to Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Thu Feb 23 08:54:15 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr The July, 1971 issue of Motor Coach Age by Bernard Linder is the most accurate and complete history of FACCO, including it's routes and rosters. Because NYC had many bus companies and routes, they often get confused or omitted. New York City Omnibus (and it's subsidiaries) was the July, 1969 issue of MCA, another excellent reference.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by andy* on Thu Feb 23 11:23:12 2017, in response to Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Thu Feb 23 08:54:15 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr The former FACO #5 (now M5) was shifted to Sixth Avenue northbound on January 14, 1966, when Fifth and Madison Avenues became one way SB and NB respectively. It was extended from 168th to 178th Street around 1970.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by italianstallion* on Thu Feb 23 17:21:43 2017, in response to Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Thu Feb 23 08:54:15 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr You know, anyone can create or edit a Wikipedia article. Go for it.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by W.B.* on Thu Feb 23 19:50:17 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by italianstallion on Thu Feb 23 17:21:43 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr But you know they need (gasp) SOURCES for these things.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by W.B.* on Thu Feb 23 19:54:15 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by andy on Thu Feb 23 11:23:12 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr Ah, but when did its southernmost terminus get shifted (around, I suppose, between the time vehicle traffic was banned from Washington Square Park in 1964 or so and the aforementioned Fifth and Madison one-way conversion) to Houston Street and West Broadway (with it being rerouted down Broadway from East 8th to Houston)? And I presume between 1964 and the '66 NB rerouting, it would have had the 8th Street-Fourth Avenue terminus?
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by X-Astorian* on Fri Feb 24 00:11:49 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Thu Feb 23 19:54:15 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr "Ah, but when did its southernmost terminus get shifted (around, I suppose, between the time vehicle traffic was banned from Washington Square Park in 1964 or so and the aforementioned Fifth and Madison one-way conversion) to Houston Street and West Broadway (with it being rerouted down Broadway from East 8th to Houston)? And I presume between 1964 and the '66 NB rerouting, it would have had the 8th Street-Fourth Avenue terminus?" The May 1972 Motor Coach Age article covering the first 10 years of MaBSTOA shows that the 5 was routed to 8th Street and University Place on 3/10/63. However, The New York Times reported on 8/31/63 the Washington Square would be closed to buses beginning the following Monday - 9/2, effecting routes 2, 3 and 5, all routed via 8th, University and 9th back to 5th Avenue. MCA also has the 5 extended to Broadway and Houston Street on 11/10/63 and north to 178th Street on 1/10/71.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by W.B.* on Fri Feb 24 00:45:03 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by X-Astorian on Fri Feb 24 00:11:49 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr Hmmm. If the 5 was routed to Broadway and Houston effective Nov. 10, 1963, on which avenue did they travel between Houston and 8th Street prior to the entire northbound route switched to Sixth Avenue after Jan. 14, 1966?
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by W.B.* on Fri Feb 24 15:17:28 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Fri Feb 24 00:45:03 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr Having checked the New York Times articles from 1963 in question, I now have all the answers. (Among them, that indeed the ex-FACCO 5's excursion into Sixth from Nov. 10, 1963 to Jan. 13, 1966 was limited to between Houston and 8th Streets; plus, this particular service change was also how M2 and M3's southern terminus became 8th Street and 4th Avenue adjacent to Cooper Square.) They can be found on the revised Wikipedia page.
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Re: Query on M5 History
Posted by northshore* on Fri Feb 24 15:27:01 2017, in response to Re: Query on M5 History, posted by W.B. on Fri Feb 24 15:17:28 2017.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr 8th St & 4th Ave (aka Wanamaker Terminal) was always an alternative southern terminal for FACCO too.The only difference then was 4th Av was 2-way so Fifth Av buses used 10 St and went south on 4 Av to Wanamaker Place (9th St).
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