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| Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 (314694) | |
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| (314694) | |
Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016 Hello again. I am working on articles on the Q3, Q23, and Q37 buses. I currently have limited historical information, and I would like this to be expanded. I will write what information I have. Any information would be helpful. Thanks againQ3 The Q3 was originally operated by St. Albans Imp. in 1919 as DP&S Route 76. This route was later operated by Bee Line Bus Company and North Shore Bus Company. Q3 service was extended from Rockaway Boulevard to JFK International Airport on December 6, 1987. Prior to the extension, the Q3 only operated during weekday morning and evening peak periods. However, once the route was extended, the route was expanded to 21 hours per day, 7 days a week. This extension was not designed for air travelers, as evident by the route's roundabout routing, but it was instead intended for airport employees, those at JFK Airport. In this area of southeast Queens there is a high concentration of airport workers, and before the extension, they had no direct access via public transportation. The headways during peak-periods were shortened from 20–25 minutes to 15 minutes, and new midday, evening, and weekend service was provided every 30 minutes. The new extensions, was extensively advertised through the use of brochures and timetables, which were the first for a local bus in Queens. These were distributed by the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey to its employees at JFK, and articles were written about the extension in airport newspapers and newsletters. All households in southeast Queens got mailings. A special inaugural bus with local dignitaries ran on December 6, 1987, with a celebration at JFK. Additional service was added to the route because of increased patronage of the route. A majority of the people who started using the Q3 to get to the airport used to travel by car. 24-hour service was added on April 11, 2004. At the same time, service to all JFK terminals except Terminal 4 was replaced by AirTrain JFK. The route's JFK Terminus was moved to Terminal 5 on May 30, 2012, due to construction at Terminal 4. Q23 Service on the Q23 began in 1925, being operated by North Shore Bus Company. The route initially was called the Corona–Ditmars Boulevard line as it was not yet extended to Forest Hills. In 1932, Joseph V. McKee, the president of the Board of Alderman proposed several bus route extensions. One of the proposed extensions was to extend the Q23 a mile along 108th Street from Otis Avenue to Queens Boulevard. As part of new contracts, Chairman John Delaney of the Board of Transportation, put in the extensions as proposed by McKee. Once the route was extended to Forest Hills, it was then called the Forest Hills–Ditmars Boulevard line. In 1933, the North Shore Bus Company's certification for the route was contested by Brooklyn Manhattan Transit, as the route would have competed with its Junction Boulevard trolley Line. At hearings, the BMT testified that since bus line started running, the traffic on the trolley line had fallen off. On February 18, 1933, the franchise grant for the Q23 was granted to the North Shore Bus Company. On September 24, 1936, the franchise for the Q23 was awarded to the Triboro Coach Corporation. On October 29, 1936, local consent for ten years for ten years was secured from New York City. In 1937, the Q23's southern terminal was Continental Avenue (71st Avenue) and Metropolitan Avenue. When terminating, Metropolitan Avenue-bound buses would turn east on Loubet Street, and then south on 72nd Avenue, before terminating at Metropolitan Avenue. All night service and more frequent service during the day, after two years of pressure, was installed on the Q23 in September 1950. Between 1985 and 1988, the Q23 was extended to Union Turnpike. As part of the Queens Subway Options Study it was suggested that if the Queens Bypass would have run via the Lower Montauk Branch, the Q23 be extended to Woodhaven Boulevard to connect with the line. Between 2006 and 2007 the layover of the Q23 was changed. Previously it would run east on Loubet Street, and then south on 72nd Avenue before turning west on Metropolitan Avenue an finally Woodhaven Boulevard before terminating at the Crescent Appartments on Union Turnpike. The routing was changed so that after Loubet Street the Q23 would turn onto 71st Avenue and then onto Metropolitan Avenue avoiding 72nd Avenue entirely. In 200X, the MTA was considering extending the Q23 to LaGuardia Airport. Signs along the route showed this proposed extension, as well as bus destination signs. Q37 Originally operated by General Omnibus Company, service began in January 1939. On November 23, 1941, the Q37 was extended from Jamaica Avenue to Queens Boulevard in Kew Gardens. On January 9, 2006, the MTA Bus Company took over the operations of the Green Bus Line routes. In October 30, 2011, daily service via Aqueduct Racetrack was added, to serve the Resorts World Casino. Also on this date, the Q37 was rerouted to operate on 133rd Avenue, Lefferts Boulevard and 135th Avenue, in both directions. Service on 116th Street was discontinued. On February 24, 2013, Q37 buses stopped running via 150th Avenue. Instead, the bus route was changed, with buses running via South Conduit Avenue between 130th Street and 134th Street. The route was changed in order to avoid congestion at the Sanitation yard on 150th Street. An additional reason for the change was to allow buses to avoid making a turn onto South Conduit Avenue from 132nd Street, because there is no traffic light at this intersection and vehicles often pass at high speeds, often causing severe delays. Additionally, 132nd Street is a narrow residential block. Thanks again! |
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| (314695) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 20 11:38:04 2016, in response to Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016. Thank you for this effort, and I'm sorry that I have nothing to offer. If I may, though, do you have more information, or a link about the Queens Subway Options Study, mentioned in your Q23 writeup? |
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| (314696) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 20 11:40:55 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 20 11:38:04 2016. P.S. I can confirm that as late as 2011 and 2012, some signs were showing LaGuardia Airport on the northbound Q23 while in service, especially when the ex-Bee Line Orions were common. I'm not sure how common it is now. |
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| (314698) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:50:41 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 20 11:38:04 2016. Yes there are some online links I can give you. Someone from my synagogue worked for community relations on the project, and I have several of the studies and books of analysis for it. It is fascinating. It is too bad it never was done.Here is one link Here is another This website has a lot of great stuff |
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| (314699) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:51:34 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by New Flyer #857 on Mon Jun 20 11:40:55 2016. Thanks, I knew it was around that time. I have seen some signs for it along the route. Sadly, I don't have any pictures. |
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| (314721) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 20 16:41:19 2016, in response to Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016. A couple of things on the Q23 from Motor Coach Age issues on North Shore/Queens TA and Triboro Coach.• Triboro operation of the line did not begin until January 3, 1938. • Although the Triboro issue claims that the extension to Union Turnpike took place in June 1978, the first map I see that on is the 1988 one issued with the Archer Avenue extension. An earlier map also dated 1988 still has Metroplitan Avenue as the southern terminal. |
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| (314722) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 16:55:41 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 20 16:41:19 2016. OK, thank you. Do you know which issue it is so that I can reference it? Thanks again. I appreciate it. |
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| (314723) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 20 17:03:55 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 16:55:41 2016. UT,You're very welcome and thank you for pursuing your project. The Motor Coach Age Queens issue was April-May 1977 and Triboro was July-September 1998. X-A |
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| (314724) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 17:10:30 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 20 17:03:55 2016. Do you have any information on the other buses by any chance? |
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| (314743) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Tue Jun 21 09:08:25 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 17:10:30 2016. OK, here's some more info. on the Q3 -Q3 Hillside Avenue-Farmers Blvd, started by Bee Line, 1923, assumed by North Shore on 5/22/39. Original route from 163rd St and Jamaica Ave. to Farmers and Merrick Blvds; extended to Rockaway Blvd. 7/1/39; cut back to 165th St. Terminal 10/27/39 (from MCA Queens issue). While originally operated by the St. Albans Improvement Association by permit in 1919, it came under DP&S supervision in 1921 and was established as route 76, St. Albans-Hollis-Jamaica on 3/27/22. The route ran from St. Marks Ave. [now 119th Ave.] via Farmers Ave, Seminole Ave., Villard Ave. [both now 190th St.], Hillside Ave. to Union Hall Street. (from MCA Old New York issue, January-June 2013). |
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| (314887) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Sat Jun 25 10:28:49 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:50:41 2016. Belated thanks for these links! I was away this week. |
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| (316728) | |
Re: [X-Astorian] Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Jul 24 12:27:52 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by X-Astorian on Tue Jun 21 09:08:25 2016. Are these both the same route? What happened between 1922 and 1923? Thanks. |
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| (316735) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Sun Jul 24 17:22:30 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by X-Astorian on Tue Jun 21 09:08:25 2016. Can't say for certain but it does seem likely because of the Farmers Avenue (Blvd) routing. |
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| (316739) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by Union Tpke on Sun Jul 24 20:16:48 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by X-Astorian on Sun Jul 24 17:22:30 2016. Thank you. |
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| (316749) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by ntrainride on Mon Jul 25 08:40:05 2016, in response to Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016. kinda related:  
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| (316751) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by IRTRedbirdR33 on Mon Jul 25 09:37:56 2016, in response to Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016. Union Turnpike: A recent issue of Motor Coach had a very good review of the early bus services running in the five boroughs. This may or may not be of use to you. If you can't get a copy e-mail me. It will be about a week before I can get back to you.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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| (316782) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by BusMgr on Tue Jul 26 00:55:48 2016, in response to Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by Union Tpke on Mon Jun 20 11:34:01 2016. While there have been several posts pointing to specific issues of Motor Coach Age, I would urge caution in relying on that information. While most of its researchers take great effort to ensure accuracy, sometimes errors arise, conflicting information is not always disclosed or reconciled, and on occasion the sources relied upon are not always understood by the researcher. The problem is exacerbated by MCA's failure to cite its sources (which, in my view, is a serious omission I think precludes classification of MCA as a scholarly journal). I suggest using MCA as a research map, and cite to either primary sources or, if need be, contemporary secondary sources. Many of these sources are now online, including HathiTrust, Brooklyn Daily Eagle, N.Y. Times, and Old Fulton New York Post Cards, which sources are the ones I would prefer to cite. |
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| (316784) | |
Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37 |
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Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Jul 26 07:19:11 2016, in response to Re: Historical Information needed concerning the Q3, Q23, and Q37, posted by BusMgr on Tue Jul 26 00:55:48 2016. Great post!!!! |
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