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| Re: Dictatorship not Democracy (313231) | |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 12:12:00 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by TerrApin Station on Mon May 23 22:34:30 2016. Yes capacity is a function of service and if service goes down, capacity goes down. But if one goes up, the other does not necessarily go up also.Example: 40 foot buses are replaced with 60 foot buses. CAPACITY GOES UP, BUT SERVICE REMAINS THE SAME. SO YOU ARE WRONG AS USUAL. Remember I am the former director of bus planning, not you. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 16:28:07 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 12:12:00 2016. Interesting point.I'm waiting for Terrapin Station to admit he made a mistake. Which will come first? The admission or a F train. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by R30A on Tue May 24 16:53:31 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 16:28:07 2016. TS did not make a mistake. BrooklynBus has yet again made a false statement. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 16:56:28 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 16:53:31 2016. How is it a false statement? Saying it's a false statement doesn't make it a false statement.This is why I ignore a lot of threads when I see his name. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by R30A on Tue May 24 17:06:56 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 16:56:28 2016. Because frequency and capacity, while related, are not tied. Overall capacity per hour is based on Vehicle capacity*Vehicles per hour. If you lower the frequency but raise the vehicle capacity, overall capacity could remain the same or increase. (Such frequently happens in the case of lines getting articulated buses. Such would be known by BrooklynBus if he ever was actually head of bus planning.) |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 17:23:49 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 17:06:56 2016. This is what Brooklyn Bus wrote:"Example: 40 foot buses are replaced with 60 foot buses. CAPACITY GOES UP, BUT SERVICE REMAINS THE SAME" In this example, there's no mention of a change in service, just a change in capacity. You introduced the idea of less service which Brooklyn Bus doesn't mention. This is exactly why I give up reading threads. If this was court of law, the judge would rule less service as evidence not admitted into testimony. If Brooklyn Bus never mentioned less service with longer buses, I don't understand why you're mentioning it. I give up following threads when the comparison changes from apples to apples; to apples to oranges; to oranges to pineapples. This is where I get off the bus, regardless of its length. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 17:30:07 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 16:53:31 2016. How is it a "false statement" if the size of the bus (e.g., carrying capacity) increases with no change in service levels? |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 17:33:46 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 17:30:07 2016. This is my last post on this and I'm getting off because this feels like a merry go round that goes nowhere.I don't see a connection between the size of the bus and service levels. The size of the bus doesn't change. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 17:36:50 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 17:33:46 2016. The example BrooklynBis used was a change from ordinary 40' buses to 60' artics. If service frequency doesn't change, then carrying capacity for the route increases. Standees on 40-footers get seats on artics, and the route can handle more customers overall. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 18:09:13 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 17:36:50 2016. First you wrote that BB wrote a false statement. Now you're agreeing with what he wrote.I'm getting whiplash. AFAIC, judgment in favor of the defendant, Brooklyn Bus. NEXT case. This thread is over for me. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by R30A on Tue May 24 19:04:27 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 17:23:49 2016. "if service goes down, capacity goes down"Only if bus capacity does not increase by a large enough amount is that true. Which makes his statement false. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:35:57 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 16:28:07 2016. Good question. I vote for the first F express in Brooklyn. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:36:56 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 16:53:31 2016. Shows you know nothing about planning also. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:43:31 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 17:06:56 2016. I never said anything contrary to what you just stated.TS stated if service goes down so does capacity. I said he was wrong because exactly what you stated, that service could remain the same while 40 foot buses are replaced with 60 foot buses keeping capacity the same. So since I said the same thing you just said, you are incorrect by stating that I did not know that. TS was the one who did not recognize that, not me. So quit accusing for no reason at all and stop sticking up for your friend when he is plainly wrong. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 20:50:03 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 18:09:13 2016. O never wrote that BB made a false statement. I was trying T show that his statement was TRUE. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:53:14 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 19:04:27 2016. Let's recap.This was Terrapin's statement: Capacity is a function of service. If service goes down, capacity goes down. If one goes up, they both go up. I repeated his second sentence, saying it was correct. THE ASSUMPTION IN THAT WAS BUS SIZE REMAINS THE SAME. Then I stated the second part of what he said was incorrect. That if one goes up, they both go up. I explained how capacity could go up without service going up using the example of bus size increasing. THAT PROVES PART OF WHAT TS STATED IS WRONG. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:59:41 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 17:36:50 2016. Yes that is exactly what I stated to prove Terrapin was wrong by stating that in order for capacity to go up, service must also go up because capacity is a function of service. I should how capacity could go up without affecting service levels.And R30A stated Terrapin's statement was correct which makes him wrong also. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by R30A on Tue May 24 21:05:57 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:53:14 2016. So you flat out admit you were wrong. Good to know. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:23:44 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Tue May 24 20:50:03 2016. You've confused me even more. Just about everything I read on the list from TS is that everything BB writes is wrong and TS is right. Their messages read like a zero sum game. (If TS' statements are true, than BB's statements are false.)Perhaps lawyers can follow the twists and turns of the threads because everything seems to be nuanced. In this case, BB wrote in clear English which was easy to understand. You added an element of reduced service which BB never mentioned. Your statement about increased capacity being mitigated by reduced service is correct. But reduced service wasn't in the original statement. So now there are two true statements and it's difficult to figure out why are TS and BB fighting. This is like professional wrestling with analysis. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:26:12 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 21:05:57 2016. I didn't read any admission of error. That's your interpretation of what he wrote. That's why there's constant fighting.I'm not sure TS, BB, and you can even agree on what was written. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:27:39 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:59:41 2016. The United Nations could never resolve issues between you, TS, and R30. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:28:35 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by BrooklynBus on Tue May 24 20:35:57 2016. That wasn't a fair comparison. I should have used completion of the 2nd avenue subway instead. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 25 00:07:31 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:23:44 2016. I never said reduced service. I said a change in bus size with NO change in service levels would yield increased capacity. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 17:53:44 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:26:12 2016. He and Terrapin are just playing games. They can't admit when they are wrong so they constantly rewrite what I wrote, then criticize me, then play dumb about it.I thought you understood that. Of course I didn't admit any error because I wasn't wrong. I clearly pointed out how Terrapin was wrong and by agreeing with him R30A was also wrong. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 17:54:17 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by R30A on Tue May 24 21:05:57 2016. Guess you need a lesson in reading comprehension also. Good to know. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 17:59:06 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by JayZeeBMT on Wed May 25 00:07:31 2016. And I said the exact same thing. Terrapin started the discussion by stating capacity is a function of service and one can't be increased without the other. I and also JayZee showed how that wasn't true because it is possible to increase capacity without changing service, proving Terrapin wrong.JayZee added that the only time that wouldn't be the case is if service is reduced. And I will add now that that is exactly what the MTA does. They replace five regular buses with four artics when artics are added to a line. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 18:03:08 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:27:39 2016. I don't think members of the UN would change what other countries state because it would result in shouting matches or perhaps even war.If they behaved civilly, respecting what I wrote and only asked legitimate questions, we wouldn't gave this problem. Yes I can choose to ignore them but if I do, someone reading a statement like thanks for admitting you were wrong would actually believe I made the admission. I see no choice but to prove they are both liars by pointing out their inconsistencies. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 25 18:52:25 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by nostalgia on Tue May 24 21:26:12 2016. If the assumption is that bus capacity stays the same, that assumption would be held regardless of whether frequency is increased or reduced. His post functionally claims that one is wrong when assuming overall capacity would be increased if service frequency is increased as one cannot assume vehicle capacity remains the same, yet one is right when assuming that when service frequency is reduced, capacity is reduced as it is a safe assumption that vehicle capacity would remain the same.It is a fallacious and meaningless argument he is making. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Wed May 25 18:56:22 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 18:03:08 2016. You have the nerve to judge others of civility?You have written articles about how your few minutes should be valued over pedestrian lives. You repeatedly demonstrate here and elsewhere that you have a extreme lack of regard for other people's right to simply live. You have directly wished me pain. This does not make you civil. It makes you a miserable sack of shit. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 25 21:50:41 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 18:03:08 2016. You wrote:Yes I can choose to ignore them but if I do, someone reading a statement like thanks for admitting you were wrong would actually believe I made the admission. I'm not sure that's really true. If members are aware of TS' reputation and see a post from him criticizing you, I'm not sure they are going to believe him. You can't control what people think of you. My advice is take comfort you posted what you consider reasonable statements and let members decide who they are going to believe. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by fdtutf on Wed May 25 22:25:47 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 18:03:08 2016. If they behaved civilly, respecting what I wrote and only asked legitimate questions, we wouldn't gave this problem.Translation: If those of us who disagree with you would simply allow you to define the debate in your own nonsensical terms, show you the deference you think you deserve, and only ask questions that didn't inconvenience or challenge you in any way, we wouldn't have this problem. Yeah, bite me. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 25 22:42:16 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by fdtutf on Wed May 25 22:25:47 2016. That's not close to my translation. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Wed May 25 23:09:54 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Wed May 25 18:56:22 2016. You know you're wrong and desperate when you have to change the subject from buses and capacity to accusing someone of being essentially a psychopath. As for civility, watch your fucking potty mouth. :) |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracy |
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Posted by nostalgia on Wed May 25 23:50:05 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracy, posted by BrooklynBus on Wed May 25 17:53:44 2016. I understood that.Sometimes, you just have to LET GO. You really don't gain anything by continuing arguing with them. How can you "win" if you know they keep changing what you wrote? You can never win. Just cut your losses and move on. Don't go looking for 100% agreement with what you write. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 26 02:18:01 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Wed May 25 23:09:54 2016. The post I am replying to said nothing about capacity. I did not change the subject.As BrooklynBus should never bring up civility, as he is the psychopath that you inexplicably think he should not be accused of being. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 26 02:18:41 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by nostalgia on Wed May 25 22:42:16 2016. That is because fdtutf actually understands the situation. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by nostalgia on Thu May 26 09:35:59 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Thu May 26 02:18:41 2016. I'm not convinced he does. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 09:43:07 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Thu May 26 02:18:01 2016. I believe the expression I am looking for is "you can't see the forest for the trees". This whole thread has been derailed now, as far as I'm concerned. Can you even prove he's is a psychopath? Tell me, in which article does he explicitly or even implicitly advocate for death? Please point to the exact phrases and quote 'em too. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by nostalgia on Thu May 26 09:50:42 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 09:43:07 2016. Worse than derailed. More like crashed into a tree.R30A will never be able to find articles or quotes because Brooklyn Bus never wrote that. The point about death came from a poster who "translated" Brooklyn Bus' posts about short wait times for pedestrians to clear into death. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 26 10:02:17 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 09:43:07 2016. The thread was never on the rails to begin with. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 10:39:53 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Thu May 26 10:02:17 2016. It is clear you deliberately want to present the article as an actual pedestrian lives don't matter article, when said article focuses on the EMPHASIS and ATTENTION paid to pedestrian deaths. They are not the same. First, not a single time does he say pedestrians lives don't matter. Second, saying "Why the Emphasis on Pedestrian Deaths" is not at all tantamount to saying "Pedestrians Lives Don't Matter".This is SubChat, so I will put it in terms a person who should be reading this site as a place for Subway and Bus information should understand. If one says "Why the Emphasis on the Second Avenue Subway?", it is not tantamount to saying "The Second Avenue Subway Don't Matter". A person making the emphasis argument may simply be dismayed to the lack of attention paid to other projects or proposed projects. It does not relegate the Second Avenue Subway to the backseat. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 26 10:58:17 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 10:39:53 2016. Complaining about the emphasis and attention being paid to pedestrian deaths IS EXACTLY TANTAMOUNT to saying Pedestrian lives don't matter. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 11:40:44 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Thu May 26 10:58:17 2016. No, it's not. Saying "Complaining about the emphasis and attention being paid to pedestrian deaths IS EXACTLY TANTAMOUNT to saying Pedestrian lives don't matter" does not prove it.Again with this subway example. If I complain about the emphasis and attention being paid to the Second Avenue Subway, it is NOT EXACTLY tantamount to saying the Second Avenue Subway doesn't matter. But of course, you can ignore that example, like you did with the other subway example I posited. If you followed your logic, then complaining about the Second Avenue Subway would be tantamount to not caring about it. I will repeat the previous statement: "If one says 'Why the Emphasis on the Second Avenue Subway?', it is not tantamount to saying "The Second Avenue Subway Don't Matter". A person making the emphasis argument may simply be dismayed to the lack of attention paid to other projects or proposed projects. It does not relegate the Second Avenue Subway to the backseat." |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by nostalgia on Thu May 26 11:58:15 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 11:40:44 2016. Goji:You're wasting your time. R30 is on a search and DESTROY mission, just like Terrapin Station. The article's conclusion is: Conclusion "Pedestrian deaths do matter, but the problem needs to be put in perspective and not exaggerated. The city attempts to tie pedestrian safety to every proposed transportation change. They emphasize that the proposed Woodhaven Boulevard SBS program will increase pedestrian safety. Yet not everyone agrees; some believe it will make the situation less safe for pedestrians." Even the name of the link wasn't an accurate description of the article. R30 and Terrapin Station have been exposed as manipulators and shown you can't believe anything they write. Brooklyn Bus has to understand that he will NEVER be able to convince the entire list of his position. Some won't agree because they don't agree and others won't agree because they have been manipulated by R30 and Terrapin Station. He is wasting his time trying to convince the second group. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 12:01:37 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by nostalgia on Thu May 26 11:58:15 2016. Thanks. I think I'll just stop as well. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by R30A on Thu May 26 12:14:58 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 11:40:44 2016. Actually, It IS the same thing.Furthermore, your strawman argument about the SAS is absurd because in reality, people who complain about the amount of attention SAS is getting ARE in fact saying SAS does not matter. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 26 12:54:06 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by R30A on Thu May 26 12:14:58 2016. You are once again demonstating your reading comprehension problems. |
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Thanks! |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 26 12:56:41 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by GojiMet86 on Thu May 26 12:01:37 2016. Thanks to you and Nostalgia for supporting me. It's good to know that there are at least two sane people on this board. With R30's and TS's domination of responding to all my posts and their extreme baseless criticisms, I was starting to have my doubts. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 26 12:59:27 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by nostalgia on Thu May 26 11:58:15 2016. The ones that don't agree have been so brainwashed by Vision Zero (which I once stated does have sine valid features) that their brain refuses to luster to any reasons that oppose it. They are so convinced the city is correct, they have list the ability to think for themselves. |
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Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn |
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Posted by BrooklynBus on Thu May 26 13:00:20 2016, in response to Re: Dictatorship not Democracyn, posted by nostalgia on Wed May 25 21:50:41 2016. Thanks again. |
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