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| Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 (305743) | |
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| (305743) | |
Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015 I'm going to begin this thread on the Jerome-Bainbridge route with a photo probably from the 1960's. It shows New Look 6456 in green, with a full-width roller sign 4 TO FORDHAM ROAD. I think the bus is on Bainbridge Avenue at East 201 Street.--- Link to --- This is a trial with a link to a Pinterest photo. I presume I cannot copy the photo but must link to it. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jun 4 14:20:46 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. This is a trial with a link to a Pinterest photo.Success! I presume I cannot copy the photo but must link to it.You presume incorrectly: 
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 20:54:45 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. Thanks, Terrapin, for getting the photo up.--- In 1946, Surface Transportation's Bx4 began at University Avenue and Fordham Road, turned up Valentine Avenue to East 194 St., then Bainbridge Avenue to Jerome, East 233, and Katonah Avenue to its current terminal. More, perhaps, on that later. --- My posts may be disorderly because I don't want to lose snippets of information that I meet. Searching for "Katonah Avenue bus" on the NY Times, I came across an article dated March 16, 1923, "Protests in The Bronx on the ten-cent Bus Fare." An unspecified private operator (Fifth Avenue Coach??) had upped the fare from a nickel on February 12th. The service is known as the Jerome Avenue Line, running from 157th Street and Broadway, Manhattan, to 242nd Street and Katonah Avenue, the Bronx. Objecting was the Woodlawn Community Council. Grover Whalen said that the higher fare was temporary until the Walker-Donahue bill was passed in Albany. Link to NY Times article --- Surface Transportation took over the Bx4 in late 1927. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by terRAPIN station on Fri Jun 5 08:55:47 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 20:54:45 2015. Thanks, Terrapin, for getting the photo up.You're welcome. My posts may be disorderly because I don't want to lose snippets of information that I meet.Just as long as you're not having a stroke, then that's fine. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Sat Jun 6 10:04:19 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. The bus loop just inside the city limits at Katonah Avenue, Van Cortlandt Park East and East 242nd Street was constructed sometime after 1951, if one looks at the aerial photos on http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/nycitymap/--- It is currently used by Bx31, Bx34, and BxM4. I presume that in the 1920's, 1930's and 1940's the intersection there was wide enough for buses to turn in the street. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Mon Jun 8 17:06:02 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015.  The sign programmer got bonus points for each missing letter. 4 TO FORDHAM ROAD on the older sign was much clearer. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Tue Jun 9 11:09:31 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. Allow me to theorize about why this route has often been called the Jerome Avenue - Bainbridge Avenue line, despite the fact that it uses Jerome Avenue for only 0.6 mile (from the IRT Woodlawn Road station north to East 233rd St.), while the bus operates on Bainbridge for about 2.1 miles.--- Until the Interborough Jerome Avenue line reached Woodlawn Road on April 15, 1918, TARS operated a streetcar line on the street beneath it. The streetcar, if I have the history correct, began around Central Bridge (Macombs Dam Bridge) and reached Empire City Race Track (opened 1899). The street named Central Avenue was later named Jerome Avenue, presumably after Leonard W. Jerome. When subway service began overhead, TARS discontinued the Jerome Avenue carline south of the subway terminal. The single-track section from McLean Avenue to Yonkers Avenue remained in service until about 1922, when TARS and its subsidiaries relinquished their franchises on much unproductive trolley mileage in Westchester. However, until 1952 Yonkers Railroad #4 trolley held the Jerome Avenue/Central Park Avenue franchise between the IRT terminal and McLean Avenue. That blocked several bus operators in Yonkers from bringing suburban passengers to the IRT Jerome Avenue line. Articles in the Yonkers Herald Statesman in the late 1930's and the late 1940's reflect the complaints of bus riders who had an unpleasant choice at the corner of McLean Avenue and Central Park Avenue: either board YRR #4 for another nickel to reach Woodlawn or stay on the bus, cross the Nereid Avenue bridge, and endure the longer ride on the White Plains Road subway line. --- Surface Transportation apparently was not the first bus service to connect Woodlawn Heights (Katonah Avenue) with the Jerome terminal. Mayor Hylan and Grover Whalen probably ran buses marked Dept. of Plant and Structures, but I have found no photos. At any rate, in October of 1927, Surface Transportation was awarded the Jerome-Bainbridge line as Route #4. My recollection is that even the transfers said Jerome-Bainbridge. I suspect TARS, parent of Surface, wanted to maintain their exclusive franchise on Jerome Avenue north of the IRT terminal. --- Link |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Fri Jun 12 20:42:18 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. In looking at the history of Surface Transportation bus routes 1 through 12, one can see that some of these routes were feeders from outlying residential areas to subway stations. For sixty or more years, parts of New York's outer boroughs wereTwo Fare Zones. In The Bronx, clearly Bx10 (Riverdale and branches) and Bx6 (Throgs Neck and branches) were feeders to rapid transit. Regarding the Bx4, the residents of Woodlawn Heights were in a Two Fare Zone. To get to work downtown, they could not walk to a convenient subway, but paid a nickel on the bus and a nickel at the Woodlawn IRT station. Just before free bus-subway Metrocard transfers were available in 1997, it meant $1.50 for each mode of transportation.--- Mom lived in Woodlawn Heights for thirty years. She would take the Bx4 to go to the Gun Hill Road district or to Fordham. For downtown trips she would use an express bus, Liberty Lines, if I recall correctly, as she found the subway claustrophobic. The nearby Woodlawn station of Metro-North seems to have healthy patronage south to Grand Central and north also. --- It is my guess that through the 1950's, the Bx4 patronage was partially as a feeder to rapid transit, partially a convenient way to shop in clothing and fabric stores on Fordham Road or reach Loew's Paradise, RKO Fordham, or the Valentine movie house. And Krum's candy store and Sutter's bakery. Nowadays, as the malls have developed, my guess is that Bx34 ridership is lower and more local, with a considerable portion of rides generated by Montefiore Hospital. --- The MTA reporte the 2014 Bx34 ridership as 1,376,925, or an daily average between 3,000 and 4,000. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by BxBus on Sat Jun 13 09:44:42 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Fri Jun 12 20:42:18 2015. Along with Krum's and Sutter's, lets not forget about that magnificent toy store Shipman's. I always looked forward to walking up the Concourse to Fordham, and browsing in their incredible windows displaying what seemed like millions of toys. And mustn't forget the little Concourse Theater, just west of the RKO Fordham. And if we want to push it a bit, further east down Fordham at Kingsbridge Rd. there was the old Windsor Theater, which actually featured stage shows and vaudeville.Getting back to Bx4, I have a very faint memory of looking out of my window from my building on 180th St. and the Concourse eastward toward Webster Avenue, and seeing a bunch of brand new buses in the familiar red and cream livery. They were parked in a garage, and I believe had not yet gone into service. They were Twin Coach units. I think the garage had two levels, and these must have been parked on the roof level, making them visible from my window. It must have been a private garage, since I don't believe Surface Transportation had any facility up there. They later went into service on the Bx4. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Sat Jun 13 12:11:30 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. Many thanks, BxBus, for your memories of the Concourse. About what year might the delivery of Twins to the Bx4 have happened?--- On Flickr, I came across an explanation of the term "Woodlawn Road," in 1913 plans for the Interborough terminal there. What is now called Bainbridge Avenue, coming in at an angle from the southeast, is marked on the plans as Woodlawn Road. --- Link Woodlawn Road plans on Flickr |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by BxBus on Sat Jun 13 14:20:36 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Sat Jun 13 12:11:30 2015. My guess would be that the delivery of the new Twin Coaches would have been in the late 1940s--perhaps around 1948. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by northshore on Sat Jun 13 15:43:44 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by BxBus on Sat Jun 13 14:20:36 2015. Surface Transportation (NYC) only had prewar Twins (except for a few demos). |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Sat Jun 13 17:45:16 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by northshore on Sat Jun 13 15:43:44 2015. A few minutes ago, I found an explanation by Mr. Linsky about Surface Transportation and Mack CM 4D diesel-electric buses ordered by Surface in 1942. Of the 300 Surface ordered, 150 were diverted to wartime employee transportation in San Diego. His post is on BusTalk's Vintage New York City thread. However, once you go to this link, you will have to find the post on May 23, 2011.Link: Mr Linsky on Macks purchased in 1942 I confuse this model with Twins. Note the cream wedge above the front bumper. It did not appear on later Surface purchases. I wish I could locate an all-time roster for Surface Transportation Corporation. Joe |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 15 14:45:13 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Sat Jun 13 17:45:16 2015. "I wish I could locate an all-time roster for Surface Transportation Corporation."Joe, I hope this does it. It's from the Motor Bus Society's magazine Motor Coach Age, March 1970 issue on Surface.   |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by 5301 Fishbowl on Mon Jun 15 15:00:05 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Jun 4 14:20:46 2015. The thing I did not like about thses buses was that they looked just like the TA's 3700's and 3800's from the outside, but unlike the TA versions, they had longitudinal seating all the way through on the inside... |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Mon Jun 15 15:00:24 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by X-Astorian on Mon Jun 15 14:45:13 2015. Thank for that excellent roster.Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Mon Jun 15 19:50:43 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. Many thanks, X-Astorian for that very helpful roster.--- Mr. Linsky posted on BusTalk a clear photo of Surface Transportation 796, a 1942 Twin Coach Model 44-CDE (diesel-electric) west of Jerome Avenue, with the destination University Avenue and a blank route sign. University Avenue was, indeed, the destination of Bx4 at that time. -- When you reach the link below, you have to scroll to his post of Nov. 9,2011, on the lengthy Vintage New York thread. Twin 796 |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Larry,RedbirdR33 on Tue Jun 16 12:38:09 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Mon Jun 15 19:50:43 2015. Joe: There are some good books dealing with bus and trolleys operations in the 1946 - 75 period.1) "New York City Transit System Bus & Trolley Coach Fleet 1946-1958" by James Clifford Greller , Xplorer Press. This books deals with buses and trackless trolleys operated by the New York City Transit System. It includes class by class descriptions and many b&w photos. 2) "New York City Transit Buses 1945-1975 Photo Archive" by Guy E. Martin, Iconografix, 2005. This book has sections dealing the private bus companies (Inc. Surface, FACL) as well as MaBSTOA and NYCTA. The is a brief history of each and many descriptive b&w photos. 3) "Third Avenue Railway, A Cityscape of Manhattan and The Bronx" by Frederick A. Kramer, RAE Publishing, 2001. This is a streetcar book and contains many photos and line maps. Most of the pctures date to the 1940 in the last years before abandonment. Larry, RedbirdR33 |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Wed Jun 24 15:15:57 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015. Here is a 1970 photo of northbound 4 Jerome Bainbridge MaBSTOA Fishbowl 3176. Interesting is the askew red sign CITY LINE, a useful fits-many-routes destination.--- --- The child in the carriage is now 45 or 46 years old! |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by northshore on Wed Jun 24 16:15:25 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Wed Jun 24 15:15:57 2015. Actually 3176 was originally a Surface Transit fishbowl from 1960. |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Sun Aug 9 12:34:14 2015, in response to Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Thu Jun 4 14:07:19 2015.  Bx4 service on the Jerome-Bainbridge line dates from 1927 or earlier. Maybe in the 1980's (date?) the route was renumbered to Bx34. ---  |
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Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34 |
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Posted by Joe on Sun Aug 9 18:59:34 2015, in response to Re: Former Bx4 Jerome-Bainbridge, now Bx34, posted by Joe on Sun Aug 9 12:34:14 2015.  |
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