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| The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 (304684) | |
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| (304684) | |
The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by caine515 on Sat Apr 25 11:29:07 2015 I'm trying to find out information about the Grumman 870 buses when they were pulled from service. I know they were pulled immediately by David Gunn when the one caught on fire on Madison Avenue going back to the garage. Were the ones that were already in service removed right away or were they allowed to finish the day? Ulmer Park had a lot..so just curious how it was done. |
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| (304685) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 12:02:29 2015, in response to The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by caine515 on Sat Apr 25 11:29:07 2015. I was in Bay Ridge signing papers for a car the day the Grummans were sent to the Brooklyn Army Terminal after being removed from their final service. They were sent all at once in convoys from all points of the city. An amazing sight. RTS's were part of the convoys to return the drivers to their respective depots. Not sure though how it worked if a bus was in mid route. |
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| (304688) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 14:29:34 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 12:02:29 2015. Funny thing about that mess.There were a few Orion's that behaved the same way,caught fire..yet the MTA kept buying them. The RTS even had wheels falling off...and caught fire,yet thousands of those were on our streets at one point. To me,it was a political move that was badly played,since the outfits that purchased them second hand from the TA kept them running for years after. |
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| (304689) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 14:29:35 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 12:02:29 2015. Funny thing about that mess.There were a few Orion's that behaved the same way,caught fire..yet the MTA kept buying them. The RTS even had wheels falling off...and caught fire,yet thousands of those were on our streets at one point. To me,it was a political move that was badly played,since the outfits that purchased them second hand from the TA kept them running for years after. |
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| (304693) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Joe V on Sat Apr 25 15:56:24 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 14:29:35 2015. Gunn made a lot of knee jerk decisions when he simply did not like a piece of equipment. Although, he'd be the first to admit the older Orion versions were junk.Was it not he who had TTC rebuild a bunch of Fishbowls, including 15 imports from Montreal ? |
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| (304696) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 22:15:13 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 14:29:34 2015. David Gunn! |
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| (304697) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 23:41:58 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 22:15:13 2015. Yeah...not the most savvy fellow... |
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| (304698) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Edwards! on Sat Apr 25 23:42:06 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by B53RICH on Sat Apr 25 22:15:13 2015. Yeah...not the most savvy fellow... |
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| (304726) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 12:31:19 2015, in response to The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by caine515 on Sat Apr 25 11:29:07 2015. NYC DOT keep their Grumann 870's on the private lines for their full life.When NJT bought the ex-NYC 870's. many ran on routes that operated on NYC streets. |
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| (304729) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by caine515 on Mon Apr 27 14:04:28 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 12:31:19 2015. Jamaica was the only ones that kept running.Triboro,Queens Surface and Green lines pulled them. Command Bus never received them. |
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| (304730) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Apr 27 14:16:02 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by caine515 on Mon Apr 27 14:04:28 2015. Queens Surface ran them to at least '93. |
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| (304731) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 14:23:08 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by caine515 on Mon Apr 27 14:04:28 2015. Triboro, Steinway, Queens, and Green did not pull them. They ran them for years. |
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| (304732) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 14:37:52 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 12:31:19 2015. From what I heard, when NJT bought them, there was a stipulation on the sales agreement that the buses not be allowed into the City of NY. |
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| (304745) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 18:24:28 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 14:37:52 2015. They ran on the Jersey City service along Church St in lower Manhattan. |
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| (304748) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by WayneJay on Mon Apr 27 19:39:15 2015, in response to The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by caine515 on Sat Apr 25 11:29:07 2015. The bus that caught fire was an express bus laying over on 57th Street. I think it was a 400 series bus from UP. It appeared that the buses were pulled from service that evening. I was amazed at how they managed to move so many buses in such a short time. At that point most depots had either mostly Grumman 870s or mostly RTS. I recall that at the time the Grumman depots were CA, UP, FP, JA, QV, COL, OFS, AMS, and FFS. RTS depots were KB, OTS, HUD, MAN, ENY, FLA (FLA never had Grumman 870s), FLU, YUK. |
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| (304749) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 20:31:26 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 14:23:08 2015. TCC, QSC and GBL ran them to around 1992-1993. JBI ran them until 2000 or 2001. |
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| (304751) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Apr 27 21:28:05 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 20:31:26 2015. Yup! That's right. |
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| (304752) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Mon Apr 27 21:29:02 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by randyo on Mon Apr 27 14:37:52 2015. Drogin ran them on the 55 before the Metro B's came in. |
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| (304754) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 21:50:40 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 20:31:26 2015. Why did TCC, QSC, and GBL drop them relatively early? Were they still problematic? |
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| (304755) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 21:59:09 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by 3-9 on Mon Apr 27 21:50:40 2015. They were 12 years old when they retired; not exactly early. |
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| (304756) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 22:03:14 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 21:59:09 2015. I was told frame issues. Can not confirm this at this time. |
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| (304759) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Tue Apr 28 00:43:10 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 22:03:14 2015. Busted up, and the TMC's were coming in Some of their fishbowls were retired side by side. |
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| (304769) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Mr. Night Train Show on Tue Apr 28 14:23:48 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Cornell Park on Mon Apr 27 22:03:14 2015. There was definitely frame damage. They could not handle the condition of the city roads. I remember pictures of some busses that had engines fall out of their compartment. The fire was just the last straw that made him pull the busses. I believe that Grumman worked on the frames before Jersey got them. |
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| (304772) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by randyo on Tue Apr 28 15:40:43 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by northshore on Mon Apr 27 18:24:28 2015. I don’t disagree with you but I seem to recall that there was a stipulation in the sale that prohibited their use in NYC unless by the time you saw them, the restriction had expired. |
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| (304775) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by WayneJay on Tue Apr 28 16:32:36 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by Mr. Night Train Show on Tue Apr 28 14:23:48 2015. The A-frame (engine cradle) was the original reason why they were pulled off the road nationwide. The first time the TA had discovered cracks in the A-frames, then one totally gave out in a FLU 870 resulting in that engine falling to the streets. At that time NYCTA had rec'd 637 of the 837-bus order. The 200 lift-equipped buses had yet to be delivered. Grumman fixed this problem by strengthening the A-frame. Those other issues were the TA's lousy maintenance issues which they desparately tried to blame on Grumman. Grumman simply gave the buses a mini-rehab before reselling them. |
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| (304777) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 28 20:10:23 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by randyo on Tue Apr 28 15:40:43 2015. Who set the stipulation? Grumman? |
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| (304779) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Tue Apr 28 22:36:24 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by WayneJay on Tue Apr 28 16:32:36 2015. Some W/C 870's simply got a lift-u lift, paint over the NYCTA colors (not even primer, just painted over) & a flxible name plate. Then stayed on the road 'til 99-00. |
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| (304780) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Tue Apr 28 22:40:45 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 28 20:10:23 2015. The stip. was banning Flxible from bidding on future NYC bus orders, not prohibition on being on NYC streets. IIRC it was part of settling litigation. |
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| (304781) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 00:23:03 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by TheHat on Mon Apr 27 21:28:05 2015. I rode them for years in Queens, the privates ran them for a nmber of years. If I recall, they were 8 cyl not 6 like the TA and consequently they had a different engine mount frame and never had the problem that afflicted the others. |
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| (304783) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by TheHat on Wed Apr 29 05:47:32 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 00:23:03 2015. Yes, DD 8V71's. |
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| (304788) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 29 11:37:58 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by TheHat on Tue Apr 28 22:40:45 2015. Got it, thanks! It's a pity, Grumman had a pretty good history with NYC buses. |
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| (304789) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 11:50:33 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 29 11:37:58 2015. Not really, pretty much all the Flxs we fondly remember were pre Grumman |
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| (304793) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by randyo on Wed Apr 29 13:35:23 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by 3-9 on Tue Apr 28 20:10:23 2015. AFAIK it was set by the MTA probably so that the agency’s incapability of maintaining them wouldn’t show up when those same buses operated by other agencies proved more reliable when not operated by the MTA. |
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| (304794) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by B53RICH on Wed Apr 29 18:03:13 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 11:50:33 2015. Grumman inherited the Flxible problems. They didn't design the 870's. Wasn't it Rohr who owned Flxible prior? |
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Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by Cornell Park on Wed Apr 29 18:15:11 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by B53RICH on Wed Apr 29 18:03:13 2015. Rhor told Grumman the 870 was tested and production ready. |
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| (304796) | |
Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 29 20:12:09 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 11:50:33 2015. Ah, my bad then. I thought Grumman had a longer history with Flxible. |
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Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984 |
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Posted by pragmatist on Wed Apr 29 22:10:36 2015, in response to Re: The day that the Grumman 870 were removed 2/5/1984, posted by 3-9 on Wed Apr 29 20:12:09 2015. around 70 Rohr Industries bought them, sold to Grumman in 1978, to General Automotive in 83 |
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