MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)

MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V) (303601)	Home · Maps · About

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MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by Gold_12th on Fri Mar 20 22:52:51 2015 edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It is requested that the Board formally ratify the declaration of an Immediate Operating Need (ION) approved by the Vice President, Materiel waiving formal competitive bidding pursuant to Article III, Paragraph A of the All-Agency Procurement Guidelines and Public Authorities Law 1209 Subsection 9(a) and approve the purchase of 72 low floor 40-foot standard diesel buses manufactured by New Flyer of America, Inc. (New Flyer). Contract B-40656 was a competitively solicited and negotiated Request for Proposal (RFP) for the purchase of 690 low floor 40- foot standard diesel buses to replace buses that are beyond their 12-year useful life. The award was split between Nova Bus LFS, a Division of Prevost Car (US), Inc. (Nova) and New Flyer, the only two bus manufacturers that are structurally qualified to build buses for NYC Transit; it included an option to purchase up to 700 additional buses utilizing a run-off process, through which both contractors will compete by submitting updated proposals. Contract B-40656-1 was awarded to Nova Bus for 414 buses with deliveries scheduled from May 2015 through April 2016; and Contract B-40656-2 was awarded to New Flyer for 276 buses with deliveries scheduled from February 2015 through October 2015. It should be noted that New Flyer is currently delivering ahead of schedule by approximately 35 buses. Despite efforts by DOB to extend the life of 72 Orion V buses from 1999 in order to keep them on the road until 2017, an unforeseen increase in the number and severity of problematic structural issues in this fleet was observed in September 2014 which has been attributed to accelerated internal corrosion and fatigue-type frame failures that occur over time and are not readily detectable. As a result, the Department of Buses (DOB) initiated a comprehensive structural survey of the entire 1999 Orion V fleet in addition to its regular inspections. Preliminary results of the survey indicated structural deterioration of the bus frames. As these buses are more than 12 years old, they are no longer covered by a structural warranty. Given the age of the buses as well as the fatigue and corrosion, any additional structural repairs would be cost prohibitive and would only temporarily mitigate the problems; DOB senior management has determined that it is imperative that these buses are replaced as soon as possible. In December 2014, NYC Transit Procurement reached out to Nova and New Flyer to determine their ability to accommodate the urgent need to replace the 72 buses. New Flyer indicated that it had capacity opportunities in the 3rd and 4th quarters of 2015, while Nova indicated that it would not have available capacity until a year later during the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2016. Subsequently, Nova’s senior management indicated that given the challenges they are facing with their current order of 414 buses and the resulting delays to the delivery schedule, Nova would not be in a position to take on any additional orders from NYC Transit at this time. Therefore, instead of conducting an expedited run-off for the 72 buses, it was determined that an ION to modify New Flyer’s contract would be issued to meet the urgent need to replace these 72 buses. New Flyer will deliver these 72 buses in parallel with its delivery of buses from the base order starting in August 2015 and finishing in December 2015. New Flyer’s initial proposal was for $496,990 per bus ($35,783,280) which is the same unit price contained in the base contract. After extensive discussions, NYC Transit Procurement was successful in getting New Flyer to reduce its unit price by $3,402 per bus to $493,588 per bus ($35,538,336) resulting in a total savings of $244,944. Based on a comparison of New Flyer’s final price to the base pricing from Contract B-40656-2, current market conditions and therelevant Producer Price Index, New Flyer’s final price for the 72 buses was found to be fair and reasonable.
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(303606)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by R32_3672 on Fri Mar 20 23:55:52 2015, in response to MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Gold_12th on Fri Mar 20 22:52:51 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d well that will mark their ends sooner than later
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(303615)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by LRG5784 on Sat Mar 21 06:17:55 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by R32_3672 on Fri Mar 20 23:55:52 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Dammit!!! Watch they keep a handful of them anyway.
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(303687)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by gold_12th on Sun Mar 22 13:16:59 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by R32_3672 on Fri Mar 20 23:55:52 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Probably the end of winter 2016.
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(303723)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 22 19:32:05 2015, in response to MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Gold_12th on Fri Mar 20 22:52:51 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Well...this is no real surprise. New Flyer Is the darling of the MTA right now...bet you dollars to doughnuts, they win the Option order for 700 more XD40...and XN40 CNG.
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(303733)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by Futurekbarticop on Sun Mar 22 20:30:04 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 22 19:32:05 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They build a much better product then NovaBus. The LFS a is an Airport Shuttle not a heavy duty transit bus.
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Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by pragmatist on Sun Mar 22 20:36:00 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 22 19:32:05 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Nova seems to be having issues getting units out on time. Part of the rationale of the split order was getting units on a more timely basis than a single vendor order. I'm not sure about the "darling" designation though, MTA has bought over 1200 buses from Nova/Prevost in that last few years and the upstate folks who generally don't like us that much, really like it when we spend money that stays in NY. For better or worse, Nova/Prevost have a significantly higher NY content/value because the assembly labor is all here. The BTE Prevosts paved the way for the purchase of 300, and those are built in NY. I really do like the NF's, but I'm in CP/MTABC territory and that means C40-LF around here (except the Q64 which moved to BP and gets OG Hybrids) .
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(303736)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Sun Mar 22 20:39:28 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Futurekbarticop on Sun Mar 22 20:30:04 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Then why are there many LFSs being used in heavy duty transit service?
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(303737)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by mtk52983 on Sun Mar 22 20:43:17 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 22 19:32:05 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d New Flyer could deliver the 72 buses when needed. Nova could not. Nova didn't even put in a bid despite being approached to do so
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(303740)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by pragmatist on Sun Mar 22 21:00:54 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Futurekbarticop on Sun Mar 22 20:30:04 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I like New Flyer, but I'm not going to run down the LFS. Thousands are in service, and it passed BTE and Altoona for the MTA. The options selected like engine, tranny, hvac, and interior make a big difference in the final product results, and that is often out of the hands of the vendor.
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(303769)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 23 14:41:31 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by mtk52983 on Sun Mar 22 20:43:17 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm not a fan of Nova,especially after an incident on the Central Avenue 55 into Albany a few years back. So far,none of the MTA models have done anything close to doing a full tailspin in the middle of the street during bad weather...which I am greatful for,mind you. Still,that is a credit to the manufacturer, the improvements overall. The only Novas I deal with from time to time are the SBS Lfsa...which I like. How ever..Nova has a crazy backlog to work through, its a small wonder that they could even get another MTA bid. Looking forward to the XD60...
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(303780)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Mar 23 18:29:58 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Edwards! on Mon Mar 23 14:41:31 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Wouldn't a spin have more to do with the tires and the driver than the specific model of bus??
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(303794)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 23 23:02:42 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Mar 23 18:29:58 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d NO! MCI as an example, how about an pusher artic?
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(303796)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Mar 24 00:58:31 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by Edwards! on Sun Mar 22 19:32:05 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d It might also help that New Flyer has 3 final assembly plants (2 in Minnesota in Crookston and St. Cloud, plus Anniston, Alabama), while Nova Bus only has its Plattsburgh plant and is currently building orders for CTA and SEPTA. The issue for Nova Bus might be to identify a second plant location to clear the backlog, as Nova Bus has a backlog of more than a year.
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(303800)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by merrick1 on Tue Mar 24 07:12:47 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by AMoreira81 on Tue Mar 24 00:58:31 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Doesn't Nova have a plant in Quebec?
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(303808)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Mar 24 07:43:35 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 23 23:02:42 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Not talking about the type of bus, only the model, assuming same type of bus.
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(303809)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TerrApin Station on Tue Mar 24 07:43:42 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TheHat on Mon Mar 23 23:02:42 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Not talking about the type of bus, only the model, assuming same type of bus.
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(303811)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by pragmatist on Tue Mar 24 08:21:46 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by merrick1 on Tue Mar 24 07:12:47 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, but not "Buy America" compliant. Like New Flyer in Winnipeg. Many contracts can not be filled with that production. That was part of the rationale for building Plattsburgh in the first place. And adding the Prevost section was a big factor in getting the order for 300 from MTA. If you look at the MTA doc previously posted, the #2 factor in evaluation for MTA is NY content.
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(303833)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TheHat on Tue Mar 24 20:05:11 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TerrApin Station on Mon Mar 23 18:29:58 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Still, NO. Engine & trans, ABS or no ABS. Throttle delay or no throttle delay. Transmission software generation, progressive shift...
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(303847)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 08:55:40 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TheHat on Tue Mar 24 20:05:11 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Engine & trans How? The driver controls those. Throttle delay or no throttle delay. Rookie mistakes. A pro wouldn't screw that up. He'd have tested for it and be able to compensate. So again, it's an operator issue. Transmission software generation No idea how this would affect anything that the operator couldn't prepare for. progressive shift... holy hell...
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(303858)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TheHat on Wed Mar 25 19:54:29 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by terRAPIN station on Wed Mar 25 08:55:40 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Ride my bus like you said you would so many years ago and You'll see..., don't and wonder why...
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(303865)	view threaded
Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V)
Posted by TerrapIN StatiON on Thu Mar 26 00:40:58 2015, in response to Re: MTA (NYC Transit) awarded New Flyer for additional 72 buses on 690 bus order... (R.I.P. Orion V), posted by TheHat on Wed Mar 25 19:54:29 2015. edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I'm not buying it. If there's any truth to what you are saying then surely you can explain it in a few sentences.
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