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| Additional Overnight Service (302321) | |
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| (302321) | |
Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by dkupf on Sat Jan 24 00:19:34 2015 What routes should have new or additional overnight service WITHOUT changing route paths?In my opinion: Brooklyn B45 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes (the elimination of B45 and B65 overnight service at the same time in June 2010 was a double whammy to the surrounding communities and, hence, a big mistake) B46 - current frequency: 60 minutes; proposed frequency: 40 minutes B57 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 70 minutes between downtown Brooklyn and Maspeth only B82 - current frequency: 70 minutes; proposed frequency: 40 minutes B103 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes between Flatbush and Canarsie only Bronx Bx1 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes Bx3 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes Bx9 - current frequency: 45 minutes early weekday mornings, 79 minutes early Saturday and Sunday mornings; proposed frequency: 45 minutes daily Manhattan M1 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes M14 - current frequency: 60 minutes each branch; proposed frequency: 40 minutes each branch M15 - current frequency: 30 minutes; proposed frequency: 20 minutes M101/102/103 - current frequency: 60 minutes each; proposed frequency: 45 minutes each Queens None Staten Island S59 - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes S79 SBS - current frequency: does not operate; proposed frequency: 60 minutes |
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| (302329) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Jan 24 02:45:01 2015, in response to Additional Overnight Service, posted by dkupf on Sat Jan 24 00:19:34 2015. The B45 is near the (4) and the B65 is near the (A) & B25.The B46 definitely needs more service overnight. You could either have 40 minute headways, or use that third bus to provide 30 minute headways in the section south of Eastern Parkway. (In that case, the short-turn would be timed to connect with (4) trains. The full run from WBP would get people from the (A) and (J)) The B57 is near the B62, B54, and B38, so no need to have overnight service restored. The B82 I'm 50/50 on. The B103 I can agree with, if nothing else to provide better headways along Avenue H west of Ralph. Bx1/3/9 I agree with. I also think the Bx13 should have overnight service (it's basically in the same boat as the Bx3). Maybe if it were interlined with the Bx11 (and shortened to Yankee Stadium overnight), you could give both of them 60 minute headways, using 2 buses. The M1 I can agree with. The M101/102/103, I wouldn't normally agree with (I mean, you have 10 minute headways on the subway below, in addition to 20 minute headways on the surface overnight, a luxury that most neighborhoods in the city would love to have). The thing is that cycle times on the 3 routes could all support 45 minute headways, though (And the M101's standalone portion could definitely use the extra service overnight, though once again, compared to many outer borough neighborhoods, there's still an abundance of overnight service). The M14 I would leave as is. The M15 I would leave as is. Having two routes serving either Richmond Avenue or Hylan Blvd overnight is overkill (especially since they also have the X1 running 24/7). What I would do is as follows: Since the ferry is supposed to get 24/7 30 minute service in May (which I honestly disagree with. I think the only time extra service is needed is on Sunday mornings), I can picture the MTA deciding to run all the buses meeting the ferry on 30 minute headways, which again, is overkill. What I would do as far as covering Richmond Avenue is as follows: Create an S44N, which would take the S48 route between St. George and Richmond Avenue, then turn down Richmond Avenue and follow the S59 route down to Hylan Blvd (serving Marsh Avenue in the process, since nobody wants to go to the mall at 3AM). Service would alternate between Arlington and Eltingville. The idea is that overnight, there are very few intra-island travelers. Most people are coming from the ferry from Manhattan (or the S53 from Bay Ridge). By running the S44N, you can alternate the S44N with the S48, so that Forest Avenue has 30 minute overnight service east of Richmond Avenue. Richmond Avenue has a direct connection to the ferry (it also helps out S61 riders by Marsh Avenue). And for the record, if the ferry were to run every 30 minutes, I would try to alternate the buses meeting each ferry. So for instance, I would have the S74 & S78 meet the :00 ferries, while the S51 & SIR meet the :30 ferries (or vice versa). For North Shore riders, I would have the S40 meet the :00 ferries while the S46 meets the :30 ferries (or vice versa). And then the S62 is a wild card. While we're on the topic of overnight service, I would try to save one bus on the S62 by cutting it back to Richmond Avenue (turnaround via Victory-Richmond-Clifton-Jones-Victory), and rerouting the S46 to cover Travis, via South-Travis-Victory. |
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| (302432) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by dkupf on Tue Jan 27 01:33:05 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Sat Jan 24 02:45:01 2015. FYI, the "Hawk" (1 AM-4:59AM) Loading Guidelines:For the Maximum Load Point: At least 5 pax/hour up to 10 pax/hour: 1 trip/hour; More than 10 pax/hour, but less than 20 pax/hour: 1.5 trips/hour, At least 20 pax/hour: see Base period loading guidelines. For Span of Service, if any one "hawk" time period has less than 5 pax/hour, then the Base, Weekday Peak/Base Transition, and Weekday Peak loading guidelines determine the span of service. That being said: B45 & B65 - The service planners should have done a study as to how riders would react to BOTH services being eliminated beforehand, but they didn't. They chose the easy way out. B57 - The B38, B54, and B62 go nowhere near Maspeth. Bx3, Bx11, and Bx13 - All three had their overnight service eliminated in 1992 due to low ridership. Based on the current schedules, the Bx3 needs overnight service now, and Bx13 still has too low ridership in the near future to have it. The Bx11, however, definitely comes close. I think it would need overnight service in three to five years, based on its cycle time, at every 65 minutes. The M14 & M15 - These neighborhoods do have political clout, so, if they didn't complain about overnight service already, they probably think it's OK. For Staten Island, S59 overnight service was also eliminated in 1992 due to low ridership. Yukon Depot bus drivers have to drive their cars to work, contributing to the island's air pollution, still a hot topic within the borough. For early overnight service from the St George Ferry, I have to agree. NYCT's schedulers should "corridorize" most of these services. I, however, prefer to make better use of the S62's current service and drivers by extending the route all times via the West Shore Expressway to West Shore Plaza. |
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| (302433) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 27 02:13:02 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by dkupf on Tue Jan 27 01:33:05 2015. The Q59 goes to Maspeth on 45 minute headways. The Q58 & Q59 connect with the B62, B54, and B38. And they go directly to the subway for those just looking to get to/from the subway (which is probably a higher proportion overnight, compared to during the day)The overnight service on all those routes was eliminated in 1995, not 1992. And how can you have the stats for the overnight service if those routes don't even have overnight service? Even if you somehow got the stats for overnight ridership in 1992, there has been a lot of development and population growth in those neighborhoods since then. (Specifically, a lot of Dominicans from Washington Heights have moved into those areas). IIRC, all three routes had a cost per passenger of below $1.50 per passenger back in 2009, and over 10,000 riders a day. Those aren't lightly-used routes by any means. Their midday and weekend headways are <10 minutes for a reason. Bus drivers all over the place drive their cars to work. Most of the time, the depots are located in isolated areas, that are often unpleasant to walk through (whether it's because of crime, or just the fact that depots are often located in industrial areas. Do you think a bus driver who just finished his run at 2AM wants to wait along Castleton Avenue for the S46 or the S53? How about somebody who finishes his run at 2AM at Spring Creek? Do you think they're wild about walking through ENY to catch the B14 or B15? (And possibly transfer again to another bus/subway on overnight-type headways) Even at a depot in a safer neighborhood like Kingsbridge or Grand Avenue, do you really think there's that many bus drivers who take the bus to/from those early morning runs? You think those parking lots are purely drivers who make overnight runs? If a bus driver were to do an overnight run from Yukon, a combined S44/S59 would serve him/her much better than the S59 by itself. The West Shore Plaza is nothing more than a poorly located, run-of-the mill shopping plaza. It doesn't have anything that you can't get at those plazas that contain ShopRite, Pathmark, Western Beef, etc. |
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| (302434) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by New Flyer #857 on Tue Jan 27 11:01:45 2015, in response to Additional Overnight Service, posted by dkupf on Sat Jan 24 00:19:34 2015. Without changing route paths? Eh. . .well if that's the stipulation I'd rather have it that you extend evenings later and begin mornings earlier than that you run empty buses emptier in the middle of the night.Still, I'm with joining other cities around the world and having a night-bus system. Perhaps the main reason why we don't already have one is because our subway runs all night. But as 24/7 subway service begins to spread around the world it should be interesting to see how the night-bus system is affected. Let's check out London Underground on the weekends in September. |
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| (302445) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 13:19:08 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 27 02:13:02 2015. Wow...what a way to drive your issues home.I was almost in full agreement with you,until you needed to single out neighborhoods You considered "safe & unsafe". In any case,it doesn't matter...an opinion piece is just that. An opinion. |
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| (302446) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:23:16 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 13:19:08 2015. lolbutthurt much? |
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| (302448) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 13:40:32 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:23:16 2015. Asshole.You know all about butthurt,since that is Your thing. Asshole...Preparation H wouldn't be enough to sooth your plowed ass. Asshole. In case you have forgot..I know who shot you. Asshole. |
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| (302449) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:55:58 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 13:40:32 2015. Yep, yer butthurt. lol.Wait, you know who shot me? Becaus that f**cking hurt! Who was it??? I bet the police would be REAL interested in closing my case. Would you be willing to come down to the station with me to speak with them? You can reply via email if you want to be discreet. Thanks. |
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| (302454) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 15:28:52 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:23:16 2015. Asshole.You know all about butthurt,since that is Your thing. Asshole...Preparation H wouldn't be enough to sooth your plowed ass. Asshole. In case you have forgot..I know who shot you. Asshole. |
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| (302455) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 15:30:58 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:55:58 2015. LOL....Asshole. I'm glad they did it...and wished they aimed a little higher. Asshole. |
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| (302458) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 16:15:19 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 13:55:58 2015. LOL....Asshole. I'm glad they did it...and wished they aimed a little higher. Asshole. |
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| (302466) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 17:19:04 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 15:30:58 2015. Yep, yer butthurt. lol.Wait, you know who shot me? Becaus that f**cking hurt! Who was it??? I bet the police would be REAL interested in closing my case. Would you be willing to come down to the station with me to speak with them? You can reply via email if you want to be discreet. Thanks. |
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| (302467) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 17:19:22 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 16:15:19 2015. Yep, yer butthurt. lol.Wait, you know who shot me? Becaus that f**cking hurt! Who was it??? I bet the police would be REAL interested in closing my case. Would you be willing to come down to the station with me to speak with them? You can reply via email if you want to be discreet. Thanks. |
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| (302468) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 17:31:36 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 17:19:22 2015. LOL...yes.Asshole. |
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| (302469) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 21:52:47 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Tue Jan 27 17:31:36 2015. Yep, yer butthurt. lol.Wait, you know who shot me? Because that f**cking hurt! Who was it??? I bet the police would be REAL interested in closing my case. Would you be willing to come down to the station with me to speak with them? You can reply via email if you want to be discreet. Thanks. |
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| (302481) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by dkupf on Wed Jan 28 00:23:29 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by checkmatechamp13 on Tue Jan 27 02:13:02 2015. 1995? Thanks for the correction.The B57 is the only route that operates to Maspeth and serves Downtown Brooklyn. All I'm saying is that the elimination of overnight service on this route was a mistake, and wish to see it restored between Downtown Brooklyn and Maspeth. When it comes to S59 overnight service, I see your point. It's the S44 that should operate overnight and extended via Richmond Avenue to Hylan Blvd during these times. |
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| (302487) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 29 00:42:11 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by TerrapiN StatioN on Tue Jan 27 21:52:47 2015. Asshole.Sure I know...always did..and we are glad they did it.. Asshole. |
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| (302488) | |
Re: Additional Overnight Service |
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Posted by Terrapin Station on Thu Jan 29 08:34:16 2015, in response to Re: Additional Overnight Service, posted by Edwards! on Thu Jan 29 00:42:11 2015. Yep, yer butthurt. lol.Wait, you know who shot me? Because that f**cking hurt! Who was it??? I bet the police would be REAL interested in closing my case. Would you be willing to come down to the station with me to speak with them? You can reply via email if you want to be discreet. Thanks. |
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