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| NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory (297932) | |
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| (297932) | |
NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by Gold_12th on Fri Sep 19 15:21:02 2014 45 foot hyshit busesFor more details, go to pages 3 to 8 Cost The cost per bus for the MCI hybrid buses is as follows: Unit Cost (37): $ 828,850.00 Unit Cost (10) $ 831,910.00 Warranty $ 29,685.00 per unit ($1,098,345.00 for 37 units) Bond (37) $ 250,000.00 Capital Spares $ 1,538,546.88 $36,712,000.00 (for 37 hybrid diesel-electric buses) $8,615,950.00 (for 10 additional hybrid diesel-electric buses with lavatories)... if there is funds avaiable total: $ 44,278,806.47 with option for 10 additional hybrid diesel-electric buses with lavatories SPECS Engine: Cummins ISL9 Hybrid, 330 hp. 1050 ft. lb. @ 1500 rpm. (8.9 Liter). Fully EPA-Certified and Compliant for Urban Bus pages 3 to 8 |
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Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by busdude2 on Fri Sep 19 15:46:21 2014, in response to NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Sep 19 15:21:02 2014. Great now I hope they win the next huge order of 1400 diesel cruisers they surely will have competition for that order. |
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Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 20:06:30 2014, in response to NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by Gold_12th on Fri Sep 19 15:21:02 2014. The document confirmed what I suspected earlier - the original bid was too expensive. And $40,000 per unit is less than 5%, so MCI didn't really come down a whole lot.Right now, only EPV can also offer a CNG commuter coach, and Prevost only provides diesel. Both manufacturers need to offer both alternatives to diesel to see how competitive MCI really wants to be. The diesel contract will tell most of the story (who wants it the most), but enough TAs are committed to alternative fuel propulsion to make competition necessary. |
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| (297951) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Fri Sep 19 20:23:16 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 20:06:30 2014. Volvo/Prevost management may be thinking that their share of the commuter bus market just isn't big enough yet for them to invest the millions necessary to develop a CNG or hybrid version of their coach. |
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| (297952) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 21:55:18 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by RailBus63 on Fri Sep 19 20:23:16 2014. You don't get share if you don't go after orders. Sometimes you have to take a chance with the R&D investment, cut a margin, or even take a loss to get that foot in the door. What if MCI thought making a commuter MC-9 was beneath what they thought the model should be and didn't bid on the NJT contract ion 1982? There might have been 700 Neoplan Metroliners, or possibly GMC develops the RTS suburbans sooner than they did (1984). |
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| (297957) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sat Sep 20 02:28:43 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 20:06:30 2014. I disagree. I wouldn't touch CNG or hybrid powertrains. The debugging process would consume too many resources for too little benefit. In addition, I am not sold on a hybrid commuter coach being worth it unless we are talking a compressed air/diesel hybrid. |
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| (297959) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by TheHat on Sat Sep 20 10:50:00 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 21:55:18 2014. True, look at the MC-9B. It is an 96-A3 in a MC-9 skin. The 9-A was just a front cap and the already available bi-part door, they stepped up in 1987 with the 9-B order and even Eagle struggling to meet then made the AE-20 in '89. The NJT Eagle 20 isn't really an Eagle 20 with the exception of the suspension. That bus was designed with an interior comprising of Flxible parts. and exterior with psuedo-MCI parts and placement. The floor height was modified to match the MCI. Seeing something different would be nice, but I subscribe to "tried & true". Anyone notice the spec. for the steering tag axle? That's new for NJT, even when leasing the Canadian 102-DL3 & the MTA 7100's, the tag sterring was disabled. Interesting IMO! |
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Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 20 13:35:01 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by JAzumah on Sat Sep 20 02:28:43 2014. CNG is a locally abundant fuel, and improved engine/tank technology have addressed the issues of range and tank life. NJT's DesignLines and MCIs both use the exact same tank system (built by Agility), so it's now a component just like the engine, not something the bus manufacturer actually has to fully address on their own. Hybrid systems are going to lead to full diesel-electric traction systems like locomotives - something that was actually used in buses 70+ years ago by GMC - and again, improved technology will produce a powertrain that can send a motorcoach coast to coast on one tank of diesel since the engine will simply be part of a generator system. That eliminates the weight and space waste of battery packs.Unless you offer a major price cut, just building the same "tried and true" thing won't get you sales. Look at the most-sold vehicle in the US - full-size pickups. Ford is moving to all-aluminum sheet metal... Ram offers diesels at every weight class and added 8-speed transmissions. Chevy/GMC stayed with more traditional designs and their market share has dropped. |
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Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by JAzumah on Sun Sep 21 01:13:33 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Sep 20 13:35:01 2014. The full sized truck market has enough units to repay the R&D cost in a timely fashion for a manufacturer looking to upgrade its product. There aren't enough properties that are going to buy a CNG or hybrid coach to repay the development costs, so you will have to use diesel to repay it. In the meantime, New Bus Company comes in an underbids you.How many times has MCI had to restructure to survive? We know they can meet the bid spec without a problem, but we have also seen the company go through tremendous financial pain. A small bus manufacturer cannot afford to do anything but build a good diesel bus as a market entry strategy. At $825,000/bus, how many properties are going to order this bus? |
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| (298010) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by RailBus63 on Sun Sep 21 11:51:51 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Sep 19 21:55:18 2014. But what is the value of the CNG/hybrid commuter cruiser market? This isn't a product that is likely to be attractive to Prevost's bread-and-butter longhaul customers. |
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| (298014) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sun Sep 21 14:44:52 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by JAzumah on Sun Sep 21 01:13:33 2014. MCI and Prevost have deep pockets behind them now, Daimler and Volvo respectively. Only EPV is a financial question mark. Prevost turned down the NJT bids in the 80s that turned the MC-9 into a commuter coach... now they want in, because that's where the guaranteed money is - TA checks don't bounce. If you're going to go in, go all in. |
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| (298015) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by kcram3500 on Sun Sep 21 14:49:28 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by RailBus63 on Sun Sep 21 11:51:51 2014. CNG gets you into the southwest - Texas, Arizona, California. TAs in those states are committing to natural gas, especially in CA where diesel is essentially shunned for government properties. Hybrids can appeal to line haul and tour/charter customers as well as TAs who want to extend their market - the increased range offered by a hybrid system lets them go further for the same fuel cost. |
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| (298016) | |
Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory |
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Posted by busdude2 on Sun Sep 21 14:54:31 2014, in response to Re: NJ Transit awarded to MCI for 37 hybrid buses, PLUS 10 option order w/ lavatory, posted by kcram3500 on Sun Sep 21 14:44:52 2014. Well as of now they are not in. |
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