|
|
| NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics (296934) | |
 |
|
| Home > BusChat | |
[ Post a New Response | Return to the Index ]
|
| (296934) | |
NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 17:51:05 2014 Coaches info:NJTransit.com - Capital Projects - Cruiser Bus Replacement Artics info: NJTransit.com - Capital Projects - Articulated Bus Replacement ----------------- Motorcoach speculation on my part: - MCI is the incumbent, but looking dated especially with the stainless siding. Hard to convince passengers they're in new equipment when they're near-identical in appearance to the outgoing. - Prevost would have to engineer a 40-foot version and NJT will likely want a new front cap/windshield to avoid the 50/50 split destination sign - EPV would have to prove financial stability and support. Remember, NJT wants this coach because it was designed from the ground up especially for them and the way they would use it. MCI and EPV would use the Cummins ISX12, Prevost would use the Volvo D13. MCI and Prevost would most likely have the Allison B500 while EPV would likely supply the ZF Ecolife. Whichever company wins this contract will be the new front-runner to replace coaches for all the TAs that piggybacked the NJT order 14 years ago. This would be a shot in the arm for Prevost and would put EPV on the map if either of them win - at the same time, a Prevost or EPV win would likely kill off the MCI D-series commuter coach. ------------------------ Artic speculation on my part: - New Flyer XD60 is the likely front runner, as NJT has a relationship with them due to their acquisition of NABI. - Nova LFS artic is second-place, and because of the extra front end overhang, would not be a good fit for the suburbans that have to use the PABT. I could see New Flyer willing to offer a 55 or 57.5-foot unit to help with turning, as Neoplan did with the current units. New Flyer would also appear to need less work to add NJT's required upper radiator location. The XD60 also would need the small quad LED headlights to keep in step with all other NJT buses, something the Nova already offers. --------------------- Of course, it's all dependent on low-bid, as the Feds are footing the bill - so even reasonable speculation can be thrown out the window by someone willing to cut their margin in return for the contract (and in the case of the coaches, the likely follow-up orders from other customers). |
|
|
| (296936) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by busdude2 on Fri Aug 22 18:05:49 2014, in response to NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 17:51:05 2014. And you can bet MCI will come in lower than usual to make sure they stay alive. Please not EPV that's all they need another floundering builder. Too risky no matter if it was designed for NJT or not. |
|
|
| (296945) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:38:17 2014, in response to NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 17:51:05 2014. The MCI dated look is in step w/ NJT for common stock of body parts. A redesign of the Prevost windshield is not an option. The MTA tried that and accepted what they could not change even with the 90 bus test order & a 300 bus order. Already the MTA is having upto 6 mos. lead time for the front doors along with other custom parts of the MTA X3-45 Prevost. As for the LFSA the front overhang is an issue along w/ the length of the front section length & the articulated joint less flexible than other atics so you're turning for the fron section as well as the first half of the joint. Also the LFSA in that configuration cannot be shortened because the side mounted suspension & braking componets forward of the 2nd front section axle. Just saying, not that you don't have a valid speculation. |
|
|
| (296949) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 22 19:45:34 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:38:17 2014. The stainless steel is customers choice. MCI also offers the smooth painted side, and I would tend to agree, it looks more modern. On the other hand, stainless has some maintenance pluses. |
|
|
| (296950) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:50:34 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by pragmatist on Fri Aug 22 19:45:34 2014. I am aware, I mean NJT's stock of parts they just need a frame & they can build an MCI @ Newark shpos. Incresingly other agencies have gone the smooth painted panels in their commuter MCI's. |
|
|
| (296952) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 20:05:21 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 19:50:34 2014. And I did think the ECOCoaches look better in all-white as well. It's a visual mindset of "clean white" as opposed to "dark/dirty/unfinished" stainless steel.Going back yo your earlier point of Prevost not adjusting the front cap/windshield... I could see them declining to make those changes for a 90-unit order, or even the 300-unti order which they weren't sure they'd win. But for 1400 units with a potential contract value approaching $1 billion, and the marketing advantage of winning the NJT contract to gain additional customers, they might consider it. "Winter 2014" can only mean December for posting the RFP, so we'll see a decision fairly soon on the new coaches... potentially awarding the contract next spring. That would also mean the MCIs in service (with the exception of the 7100s) will likely not get any rehabs if they're going to be hitting the secondary sales market starting in 2016. |
|
|
| (296953) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 20:20:50 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 20:05:21 2014. I disagree, Prevost knew they would win. They played the NY content card the X3-45 costs more than the MCI w/o NY content credits. As for the painted sides, they will be dark/dirty most of the time and begin to yellow as the did on the CNG MCI's before rehab. Stainless steel can be restored to like new condition with out paint. IMO that's a plus. |
|
|
| (296954) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 22:00:41 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by TheHat on Fri Aug 22 20:20:50 2014. True about the NY content credits... thankfully that doesn't play in NJ.The durability and maintenance advantages of the stainless steel siding are obvious, but they could also contribute to weight penalties. The MCI is heavier as it is - the CNG ECOCoaches allow 12 standees, the new MCI CNG only allows 2 - that's another reason NJT would want EPV to get sufficient capital/funding and try again. 10 more fares per trip adds up. |
|
|
| (296960) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by TheHat on Sat Aug 23 00:24:19 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 22:00:41 2014. I'm sorry, IMO I can't trust the EPV. After a ride with my NJT friend & counterpart for a full run. The Eco had the baggage door misalign during the first 2 trips the emergency/panic button activate on it's own & the door button fail by the last trip. Every weekday, when I go to NJ on the parkway I see a DL broken down or on a hook. I would IMO chalk the weight up to not the SS (they're almost paper thin sheets on the same framing of all MCI's). The MCI 7278 has the multiple electric fan system with individual motors, stronger thicker tanks. The ECO has alot of off the shelf parts & alot of glue. The frameless windows are truly framless and of the same quailty of the RTSII or Grumman 870 and let outside air in as they shook, heck if push lightly on them you get a nice whistle. |
|
|
| (296962) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by Flxible4life on Sat Aug 23 00:47:32 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by TheHat on Sat Aug 23 00:24:19 2014. Please NJ Transit don't mess with New Flyer's Xcelsior headlights. They are fine as it is as they are L.E.D |
|
|
| (296968) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by kcram3500 on Sat Aug 23 04:17:06 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by TheHat on Sat Aug 23 00:24:19 2014. One thing the Eco did show... MCI can't be complacent and assume they have the commuter market to themselves - start-ups and small players see the potential revenue and will take a shot. I'm not the biggest fan of roof HVAC, but it does stay out of sideswipe/T-bone crashes.Had experience with the 1981 870s here in NJ and the 1980 RTS-03s in Pittsburgh... the flush windows looked nice, but they did just sit on the pillars and leak air (and sometimes water). The G4500 proved MCI can screw it up too... and the D is certainly a proven design. Just tired of seeing a 2015 coach that still shares design elements of the 1973 MC-8. The Prevost X3-45 is still a descendant of the original TS-47 LeMirage (also of the 1970s), but it sure doesn't look like it - much better job of updating the body. |
|
|
| (296974) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by TheHat on Sat Aug 23 09:03:13 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Sat Aug 23 04:17:06 2014. Agreed all around. |
|
|
| (297695) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by Gold_12th on Thu Sep 11 15:41:07 2014, in response to NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by kcram3500 on Fri Aug 22 17:51:05 2014. NJ Transit will not order 40 foot coach buses. |
|
|
| (297696) | |
Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics |
|
|
Posted by kcram3500 on Thu Sep 11 15:59:37 2014, in response to Re: NJT to solicit for new diesel coaches and artics, posted by Gold_12th on Thu Sep 11 15:41:07 2014. Maybe not for themselves... the privates who operate over 500 of the NJT-owned MCIs have some say as well. NJT also has a tendency not to update the capital programs page in a timely manner. The count of 1,388 sounds right, assuming they get the 37 hybrids (eventually). That would give them 1,585 total, compared to the fleet of 1,597 prior to the DesignLine arrival. Companies like Rockland Coaches certainly don't need as many as they previously accepted. |
|
|