NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD

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NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014 edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The city is targeting cheap, unpermitted shuttle buses that ferry passengers between Midtown and New Jersey, according to officials and passengers. The so-called "Jersey Jitneys" are made up of a patchwork of different bus companies that pick up passengers along West 42nd Street, across from the Port Authority Bus Terminal, and take them through the Lincoln Tunnel for as little as $3 a ride. According to passengers and workers for the jitneys, the NYPD has begun to crack down on the companies, either by fining them or simply telling them they can't pick up customers on West 42nd Street. A police source confirmed officers were enforcing DOT intercity bus rules on the block. Most of the companies don't have city permission to operate as intercity buses, according to Department of Transportation records, but their loyal passengers say they're a much quicker and more efficient alternative to New Jersey Transit buses. "The jitneys are amazingly efficient," said Hugh Lester, a regular jitney passenger who boards the bus at Boulevard East on the Jersey side of the Lincoln Tunnel. "It can be five to seven minutes from our door to the Port Authority or back, that's why people use them." Lester and his wife had tried to head back home on the night of July 11 but were thwarted when police shut down the jitney service. "There are a ton of buses that serve that route on New Jersey Transit, but it's just not enough," he said. Locals say the jitney buses idle on the street and block the MTA's M42 bus — which in December won the Straphanger Campaign's Pokey Award for the city's slowest bus route. According to Community Board 4 chairwoman Christine Berthet, the jitney companies have been slow to file for new city permits or even work with the board to find a new pick-up and drop-off spot. The board brought up the issue with police, asking them to step up enforcement. "The only way to bring the rogue jitney companies to the table is to drastically increase enforcement," Berthet said. A Department of Transportation spokeswoman said that any interstate carriers need to have a permit from the DOT to pick up and drop off passengers on city streets and those without them would be subject to action by the NYPD. The spokeswoman added that the department would work with companies to help them get a proper permit. After the city said it would begin ticketing intercity buses in Chinatown in August, in the hopes of curbing bus traffic there, state Sen. Brad Hoylman asked the NYPD to do the same thing on West 42nd Street. "While I appreciate the economic benefits that these buses bring to New York, in addition to the low-cost options they provide to New Yorkers looking to travel outside of the city, I do not believe we should sacrifice the safety and order of our pedestrian and vehicular traffic in exchange for those benefits," he wrote in the July 18 letter to NYPD Commissioner Bill Bratton. Staff at three of the jitney operators named by Hoylman — Fuji, Three Aces and Galaxy — did not respond to requests for comment. On Monday afternoon, there were four Sphinx buses — operated by Galaxy — parked on both sides of West 42nd Street, one with a can of Coors sitting on the dashboard. A steady stream of passengers were getting on to head to New Jersey. Aberto Sherwood helps load passengers for Sphinx and makes sure no one parks in the bus company's unofficial pick-up spot outside of a Burger King. He said the company's received a few $2,000 fines, but would continue to operate regardless. "They can't shut us down," he said. "We'll go to court. We'll go to war." http://www.dnainfo.com/new-york/20140724/hells-kitchen-clinton/jersey-jitney-buses-getting-shut-down-ticketed-by-nypd
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by The Orion Kid* on Sat Jul 26 13:41:58 2014, in response to NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I thought it's been settled that there's not much NY or NJ can do about the buses since they're an interstate operation (only the feds can touch them), aside from the NJ MVC inspecting the buses since they're registered there.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by andy* on Sat Jul 26 17:52:34 2014, in response to NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I've always wondered about these "Jersey Jitneys" and wondered why they can operate on NYC streets and pick up passengers without proper permits. Guess I was right all along. They should be controlled and appropriately regulated.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by busdude2* on Sat Jul 26 18:23:57 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by andy on Sat Jul 26 17:52:34 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You think NJT buses are crowded now, wait until the jitneys are gone.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by 167t* on Sat Jul 26 18:43:00 2014, in response to NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Finally after 30 years?!?! "We'll go to war"...terroristic threats!
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by ctrabs74* on Sat Jul 26 18:49:31 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by The Orion Kid on Sat Jul 26 13:41:58 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d "Only the feds can touch them?" What kind of defense is that? If the city can regulate where Megabus, Bolt and other curbside carriers and pick up and drop off, they can certainly do the same for these deathtrap "Jersey Jitneys" and maybe force some of the less reputable ones out of business.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by Flxible4life* on Sat Jul 26 19:18:13 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by busdude2 on Sat Jul 26 18:23:57 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Let's say if the so-called "Jersey Jitneys" that operate along Blvd. East are gone, NJT better pray that these companies get the proper permits. Why, because I've read from here and NYC Transit forums that NJT doesn't have the equipment to handle the extra crowding let alone have the space at their depots. How many buses can actually fit in Meadowlands Garage? They do have that lot right across from it for bus storage. I don't know if they own that particular property. Blvd East needs 45 footers and perhaps in some cases 60 foot articulates. The amount of money that's been generating along the Blvd. is crazy
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sat Jul 26 19:38:11 2014, in response to NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d if NJT ran buses on time and efificiently there would be no need for jitneys. NJT has no one to blame but themselves.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by TheHat* on Sat Jul 26 20:39:45 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by ctrabs74 on Sat Jul 26 18:49:31 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Open conatainer, "can of coorson the dash". Just because said open container is in an interstate vehicle doesn't mean local law can't touch them as the warmonger spot watcher believes.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by busdude2* on Sat Jul 26 20:40:59 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Flxible4life on Sat Jul 26 19:18:13 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Exactly my point the people like them and NJT needs the help so the money hungry NYC wants more permit money. They don't give a crap about NJ people getting to and from the city.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by The ORION Kid* on Sat Jul 26 21:11:46 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by SUBWAYSURF on Sat Jul 26 19:38:11 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d The jitneys also do on street pickup and dropoff and some during the rush go crosstown on 42nd (believe it or not people don't like the PABT) and offer a lower fare. From what I've seen the few times I been out there, a lot of people will just take whatever bus comes first on the Blvd, and a lot will wait for a jitney just for the fare or not having to go through the Port. Very few won't take the jitneys period, usually cause they have a weekly/monthly.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sat Jul 26 21:39:29 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by The ORION Kid on Sat Jul 26 21:11:46 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Point well taken
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by JAzumah* on Sun Jul 27 00:39:22 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by ctrabs74 on Sat Jul 26 18:49:31 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Megabus and BoltBus are playing ball because they want them to scare off the Chinese. This entire system was set up to monetize the city's bus stops and to shove out the Chinese. Notice where the enforcement is scheduled to begin. Here is the other wrinkle: some of those guys already have stops. Why are they being made to reapply for stops they should already have? Not only can they go to war, they could win.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by JAzumah* on Sun Jul 27 00:41:25 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by 167t on Sat Jul 26 18:43:00 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d They don't have a choice but to go to war.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by NIMBYkiller* on Sun Jul 27 01:16:19 2014, in response to NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by Gold_12th on Sat Jul 26 11:58:59 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d I swear I've seen DOT stop sign posts on 42nd St for some of these guys though...
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by TheHat* on Sun Jul 27 10:26:27 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by NIMBYkiller on Sun Jul 27 01:16:19 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Yes, I have too.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by centour* on Sun Jul 27 10:49:58 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by busdude2 on Sat Jul 26 18:23:57 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d If the Jitnney's are gone it will open the door for legitimate operators of full size buses to provide properly insured and maintained vehicles. NJT will share the loads and eliminate overcrowding.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by SUBWAYSURF* on Sun Jul 27 11:04:22 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by centour on Sun Jul 27 10:49:58 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d NO it will only have NJT reduce service. As their history dictates.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by JAzumah* on Sun Jul 27 11:12:23 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by centour on Sun Jul 27 10:49:58 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Can we define a legitimate operator? NJT is not going to add service except at gunpoint. They are maxed out at most garages.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by NIMBYkiller* on Sun Jul 27 17:42:34 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by JAzumah on Sun Jul 27 11:12:23 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d And at PABT
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by BusMgr* on Sun Jul 27 20:29:26 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by andy on Sat Jul 26 17:52:34 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Although you may believe that "[t]hey should be controlled and appropriately regulated," Congress determined that issue back in 1982. Under federal law, states and localities may not engage in economic regulation of bus routes that carry passengers in interstate commerce, but they may engage in safety regulation. I think there's an open question as to whether or not the state law that permits the City of New York to regulate the stopping of buses on streets is in fact legitimately related to safety, or if it is a proxy for regulating the economics. That is, is the City denying interstate bus companies the right to stop at a particular location because it would be unsafe otherwise, or is the City denying the right based on the politics of community boards simply not liking interstate buses in general? My impression is that most bus stops get denied by the City based on community board politics, and to a lesser extent based on business competition (i.e., the Port Authority does not want competing bus stops near the PABT) and on legitimate safety issues. Neither Greyhound Lines nor Coach USA will oppose the City since its effect on them is less than the effect on their competitors. It will be up to bus companies like the New Jersey jitneys to litigate, and hopefully get this open question answered.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by centour* on Mon Jul 28 09:21:53 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by JAzumah on Sun Jul 27 11:12:23 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Before the Jitneys, Other carriers such as Manhattan Transit operated along Boulevard East. The Jitneys have destroyed the NJT 171 service along Rt. 4 and the NJT 190 has lost ridership through Paterson, Clifton and Passaic to the Cockroach Jitney's. With them gone real buses operated by real bus operators could once again share the passengers along the busy corridors. If NJT can't handle it then opportunity knocks for new or existing carriers to join in. That's the way supply and demand should work.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by centour* on Mon Jul 28 09:22:31 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by JAzumah on Sun Jul 27 11:12:23 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Before the Jitneys, Other carriers such as Manhattan Transit operated along Boulevard East. The Jitneys have destroyed the NJT 171 service along Rt. 4 and the NJT 190 has lost ridership through Paterson, Clifton and Passaic to the Cockroach Jitney's. With them gone real buses operated by real bus operators could once again share the passengers along the busy corridors. If NJT can't handle it then opportunity knocks for new or existing carriers to join in. That's the way supply and demand should work.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by kcram3500* on Mon Jul 28 12:06:42 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by centour on Mon Jul 28 09:21:53 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d How exactly is that "supply and demand" when you want to specify the suppliers? Most of the jitney operators are properly licensed and registered with NJDOT/NJMVC and USDOT/FMCSA. Are there issues with drivers? Yes, but NJT has the same issues as evidenced by recent employees being caught by passengers in various illegal acts at the wheel. They likely need increased inspections of vehicles, drivers, logbooks, etc., but they serve the same purpose as the old IBOAs in Essex and Hudson counties did against Public Service. The jitneys didn't destroy service to the GWB on the 171 or any other route. The GWBBS just isn't convenient for commuters when the majority of employment is in midtown and lower Manhattan. The jitneys don't compete with the 175, 178, 182, or 186... and they have cut service just as much as the 171. Rockland just dumped almost all of their GWB routes for the same reason.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by JAzumah* on Mon Jul 28 13:11:01 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by kcram3500 on Mon Jul 28 12:06:42 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d Bingo.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by centour* on Mon Jul 28 15:07:25 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by kcram3500 on Mon Jul 28 12:06:42 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d You validated my point when describing Red and Tans dropped GWB routes. They were picked up by Americoach/Saddle River Tours. The door was opened and another carrier stepped up.
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Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD
Posted by kcram3500* on Mon Jul 28 15:16:33 2014, in response to Re: NJ Jitney Buses Getting Shut Down, Ticketed by NYPD, posted by centour on Mon Jul 28 15:07:25 2014.* edf40wrjww2msgDetailB:detailStr fiogf49gjkf0d That was brokered by NJT... SRT didn't pick up those routes because they saw a lucrative service opportunity. They were the only remaining motorcoach operator in the Bergen County area, and SRT wouldn't do it without getting NJT-owned buses swapped from Rockland Coaches. And, SRT reduced service as well - to what the revenue could support.
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